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Kurt H.

Kitty Hawk RF-101A/C

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13 hours ago, 11bee said:

 

 

And then we have the bottom feeders like KH and Kinetic who have made it clear that they really don't care about accuracy or feedback from modelers.  Just please don't lump in "all the major manufactures" into that category.

 

Im not sure what planet you live on but Kinetic is a bottom feeder?

i guess you havnt seen the Mirage Family, Harriers, Hornets etc.

The reason AMK retooled the Kfir was nobody bought the thing when the far more accurate Kinetic kit is available.

Dont mention either that the conversion set done by one of Monograms master modellers even missed the intakes on his RF-101 conversion.

That was a conversion specifically for the Single seater 101.

The references where widely available then as they are now but i dont hear to many people calling Koster enterprises...bottom feeders especially the guys who did beautiful RF-101 conversions in 48th with that set.

 

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All I know is I'll be picking up at least one of these kits and maybe a second.   I'll keep and use the Monogram 101B's I have in the stash and be happy.  I already have a pair of the 101C's.   KH may get a bad rap but at least they are putting out the kits of planes I've wanted for years and years.  :thumbsup:

And I have a half dozen of the Kinetic Mirages.   Gorgeous kits.

Edited by Drifterdon

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1 hour ago, dehowie said:

 

Im not sure what planet you live on but Kinetic is a bottom feeder?

i guess you havnt seen the Mirage Family, Harriers, Hornets etc.

The reason AMK retooled the Kfir was nobody bought the thing when the far more accurate Kinetic kit is available.

Dont mention either that the conversion set done by one of Monograms master modellers even missed the intakes on his RF-101 conversion.

That was a conversion specifically for the Single seater 101.

The references where widely available then as they are now but i dont hear to many people calling Koster enterprises...bottom feeders especially the guys who did beautiful RF-101 conversions in 48th with that set.

 

that's funny as most folks in the know put the AMK kit a lightyear ahead of the Italeri kit before the retooled the kit. 

glt

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9 minutes ago, ChesshireCat said:

that's funny as most folks in the know put the AMK kit a lightyear ahead of the Italeri kit before the retooled the kit. 

glt

 

I assume you meant to say "Kinetic" not "Italeri"?

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Thanks for the link, HomeBe. I'd like to get Ron's  book ...

 

978-0-7643-4799-3.jpg

 

but Amazon's $598.61 is somewhat out of my price range .

 

(direct from Schiffer, it's only  $59, but their cheapest shipping is a steep $20 (!) ... so I ordered this one for $43 total ... 2 day delivery):thumbsup2:

 

Gene K

 

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1 hour ago, Gene K said:

Thanks for the link, HomeBe. I'd like to get Ron's  book ...

 

978-0-7643-4799-3.jpg

 

but Amazon's $598.61 is somewhat out of my price range .

 

(direct from Schiffer, it's only  $59, but their cheapest shipping is a steep $20 (!) ... so I ordered this one for $43 total ... 2 day delivery):thumbsup2:

 

Gene K

 

 

$41.70 shipped from an eBay seller. Your deal was good too. If a product is out of stock on Amazon they, for some reason, raise the price to ridiculous levels.

 

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21 hours ago, Gene K said:

 

Indeed! I'll buy the kit for the box art, and follow/copy  your build to make the needed corrections!! :thumbsup2:

 

Gene K

LOL! I’m going to skip the G/H since it isn’t an improvement over my C&H conversion. I’m probably going to scrap my 25 year old Koster conversion and use the cockpit, windscreen, canopy, and afterburners on the KH RF-101A/C. It will be interesting to see how the intake fix will go. Hopefully, someone will release some resin intakes, soon.

 

Ben

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11 hours ago, skyhawk174 said:

 

Hmm they did get Floyd Werner to help with the UH-1D and the AH-6 so maybe things are looking up? If the parts are 90% right the first time then less to correct.

Agreed but all the good help in the world won't change bad business decisions.  For every decent helo (and note that neither of those kits are close to being considered flaw-free), there's another RF-101 released that shows they still don't listen to experts who are trying to help them avoid basic mistakes so they can put out a superior product.     

 

None of this is rocket science; Tamiya, Wingnut Wings and others have consistently shown that you can release a product that is free of basic flaws like the issue discussed on this thread.  Just takes a commitment to do it.  Obviously KH isn't there yet.   Hopefully at some point they'll change but I'm not holding my breath.  

 

 

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Not a dig at KH specifically, but It does boggle the mind how in this day and age we still have model companies making major mistakes on kits with so many references readily available, with examples of the real thing easily found and accessed,  and with so much expertise from people who know the aircraft and are willing to help out if asked. Yes, its beating a dead horse but the bottom line is the intake issue on the KH single seat Voodoo's should never have happened in the first place had KH taken the proper steps before casting molds for the initial F-101 A/C release. The Voodoo is my favorite Century Series aircraft and having an accurate mainstream OOB F-101 A/C and single seat RF-101 would have been fantastic (not on my wallet mind you LOL!).  But I doubt we will see another new tool single seat Voodoo in my lifetime so it's either KH or nothing. Like others I'll still grab one or two like I did the A/C fighter version. Its just disappointing. Meh,  I'll just squint when I look at them in the cabinet and live with the wrong intakes...LOL.

 

Regards,

Don

 

P.S it looks like KH molded the refueling doors open on the nose again like they did on their F-101 A/C kit? If so I hope they fit better in the closed position on this RF kit because I found them a real PITA on the fighter version.

Note to self: purchase more filler, sand paper, polishing compound, polishing sticks, scribing blades...:rolleyes:.

 

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51 minutes ago, Ben Brown said:

Hopefully, someone will release some resin intakes, soon.

 

Too bad Jeffrey (Hypersonic Models) is in the midst of relocating to Japan. I think he'd be on this.

 

Gene K

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8 minutes ago, Gene K said:

 

Too bad Jeffrey (Hypersonic Models) is in the midst of relocating to Japan. I think he'd be on this.

 

Gene K

Jeffrey is awesome.  He worked wonders fixing most of the flaws on the Trumpy A-3 series.   Would love to see what he could do with this kit.  That being said, was their not some mention of another, unnamed outfit who was working on a fix for this?  Anyone have details?

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I think there was just hints and vague mentions of "someone" who may be willing to work on aftermarket intakes. I don't think any specific person/company has stepped forward to officially announce that they are working on them. Right now I am not holding my breath for anything anytime soon. The F-101 A/C has been out for a few years already and no intake correction has surfaced. Perhaps the RF will stir someone to action... but again, not holding my breath.

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Same. Perhaps we could petition Dmitri at DMold to release a set. Maybe a decent cockpit, too.

 

Ben

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On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:43 PM, 11bee said:

Obviously you've never built a kit from Tamiya, Wingnut Wings, Hasegawa, Great Wall, etc.   With very few exceptions, these guys provide if not defect-free kits, at least kits that avoid major dimensional errors like we see on the Voodoo.  Hell, there was some manufacturer (can't recall who) that when made aware of a problem with their kit, actually retooled the part and re-released it.

 

And then we have the bottom feeders like KH and Kinetic who have made it clear that they really don't care about accuracy or feedback from modelers.  Just please don't lump in "all the major manufactures" into that category.

Kinetic a bottom feeder!!!!!!!  That is the stupidest comment I've seen on this forum in a while. Raymond Chung goes out of his way to make the best  kits he can he actively sought out help from the IPMS UK Harrier SIG to ensure the Sea Harrier and trainer kits were as accurate as possible, he also had help on   the F/A-18 kits. Taniya and Great Wall have in the past made errors on kits ;Tamiya Beaufighter,  Meteor F.1,  Great Wall made errors on the F-15B/D and the MiG-29 so no one's perfect. 

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I believe companies (not only Chinese) have three types of policies in managing contributors :


1) « send us all the reference material you’ve got and pray » : producers doesn’t involve contributors during product development. That’s the Trumpeter/Hobby Boss strategy


2) « here are some CAD snapshots… good enough ? » : producer makes some CAD snapshot public and somewhat listens to feedback. The problem is that some errors cannot be addressed : cross-sectional errors in the CAD model, errors in decal sheet design (F-5E, Su-22, etc). That’s the Kitty Hawk strategy


3) « here’s the CAD export, the instructions sheet draft, the decal design, the box art… good enough ? » : the CAD export allows thorough review of the CAD model (hide objects, make cross-sections, measure objects, etc). Of course it doesn’t means that the kit producer will implement all recommandations advised by the contributors because of technical limitations, budget or release timing matters yet it’s the best way to « demine » the project. That’s the current Great Wall Hobby or Kinetic strategy

 

A kit producer is a company and a company can only survive if it brings in more cash than it spends. Retooling may seem to be a magic word but in fact it is wasting money that could have been used in another project. It's especially true when the company outsources manufacturing of the tooling. Making the correct single-seater F-101 intakes should have been made right from the start as it isn't easy at all to correct an error: retooling a whole sprue isn't an option, there may not been any space left to add the proper parts. The only reasonable thing the producer can do is ask some subject experts to provide valid reference material, illustrate the differences between such and such versions, review the CAD design, etc. This can work only if the experts collaborate right at the beginning of the project.

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20 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

that's funny as most folks in the know put the AMK kit a lightyear ahead of the Italeri kit before the retooled the kit. 

glt

 

Have you seen the panel lines on the AMK first edition?

No coke bottle fuselage, agricultural finesse..

Having built two Mirages which are THE best Mirage kit on the block in any scale and half way through a Kinetic Kfir Aggressor my AMK one sits awaiting time to be sold off.

Kinetic Kfir build at Britnodeller not mine.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234960441-iai-kfir-c7-kinetic-148-finished/

Not a fan of commentary canning manufacturers doing great work and Kinetics Harriers, Hornets and Mirage family are great kits and the only people i know of dissing them are shake and bakers.

Whats to complain about this another Kinetic build oob?https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/mirage-iiie-1-48-kinetic-t49898.html

 

PS sorry for derailing the topic...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dehowie

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4 hours ago, Laurent said:

Excellent article! Honestly, if an aftermarket company could provide the correctly shortened intake splitters to use instead of the kit supplied ones then all the builder would have to do is cut the front of the intakes to the correct shape. Would make for a relatively easy correction and a fairly inexpensive one too.

 

Any aftermarket folks out there up to the task...?

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35 minutes ago, Don said:

Excellent article! Honestly, if an aftermarket company could provide the correctly shortened intake splitters to use instead of the kit supplied ones then all the builder would have to do is cut the front of the intakes to the correct shape. Would make for a relatively easy correction and a fairly inexpensive one too.

 

Any aftermarket folks out there up to the task...?

 

Yes, thanks for the link, Laurent.:thumbsup:

 

Cheers, Stefan.

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On 6/23/2018 at 7:38 AM, Ben Brown said:

LOL! I’m going to skip the G/H since it isn’t an improvement over my C&H conversion. I’m probably going to scrap my 25 year old Koster conversion and use the cockpit, windscreen, canopy, and afterburners on the KH RF-101A/C. It will be interesting to see how the intake fix will go. Hopefully, someone will release some resin intakes, soon.

 

Ben

 

Ben thanks for the info. I also have the Koster conversion and never realized the intakes on that too were a little bit off. I like your idea and maybe that is what I should do so I will probably pick up the kit . I was not able to pick up the C&H conversion. Yeah and hopefully someone will do the resin thing to fix the KH kit.

Edited by skyhawk174

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I built up an RF using the Koster conversion and had no clue about the intakes being different.  Linky to my build:  http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/294160-inspiration/

Knowing what I now know, I'll fix the intakes on my A/C's and the future RF C/G's using the link Laurent provided.

Edited by Drifterdon

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Mike Reeves of Phase Hanger Resins (AKA Two Mikes Resins) has said I could go ahead and tell. He is working on a correction set for the single seat Voodoo intakes. That's all the info I have. When I asked if he had decided if he would work on this (I had original brought up the subject in May) he said "I have it on my bench". Which I take to mean he is actively working on it.

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