Scooby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, john53 said: Just a wee bit confused. I thought Mk 5 GH were hard wing with fences and Mk 6 were slatted. So is this Hawk One an actual bird that performed with the Golden Hawks or a rebuild? Sounds like it is a combination of the two marks?----John Yes, it is a combination of a Mk 5 and Mk 6. We used to have this jet in Cold Lake when it towed gunnery targets for us. It has a wing off a Mk 6 and fuselage from a Mk 5. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, AX 365 said: John, The serial number for the fuselage is 23314 or construction number 1104 from Canadair. It was a Sabre 5, with hard wing and fences, that was built in 1954 and flew operationally with 441 Sqn, 1 Wing, Marville, France. It was seconded to the Golden Hawks as a training aircraft in late 1962. I don't think it ever flew as an actual Golden Hawk. When it was purchased by Vintage Wings of Canada, it already had the F-40 wings. I don't know when those wings were retrofitted to the aircraft. I understand the VWoC attempted to find a set of Sabre 5 / F-86F-30 wings with the fences but they were unable to do so, so the F-40 wings remained. It also has the uprated Orenda 14 engine commonly used in the Sabre 6. So, it is a rebuild with various upgrades and improvements. Mike It also flew with 416. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 OK, gotcha. Don't want to steal the show but does anyone know anything about a Mk 5 that served at Summerside in 1955? I am doing a Hobbycraft Mk 5 with those markings and can find no proof or pictures. It was 23350 fuseslage SU-350. You seem to be my best hope with your RCAF knowledge.---Thanks---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, john53 said: OK, gotcha. Don't want to steal the show but does anyone know anything about a Mk 5 that served at Summerside in 1955? I am doing a Hobbycraft Mk 5 with those markings and can find no proof or pictures. It was 23350 fuseslage SU-350. You seem to be my best hope with your RCAF knowledge.---Thanks---John Don't know about Summerside, Prince Edward Island but, according to Larry Milberry's bible The Canadair Sabre, 23350 was attached to the Central Flying School at CFB Trenton, Ontario. Not sure when it would have been turned over to CFS but it would probably have been after the Sabre 6's were introduced to the squadrons in Europe. Prior to that, it flew with 434, 439 and 441 Squadrons. It was written off in an accident on 23 May 1960. F/L G. Brennand had an engine failure on landing in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. According to the book, it was a non fatal accident. On page 231 of Milberry's book, there's a black and white photo of 23350 as it flies over Kingston, Ontario which is not far from Trenton. As an aside, there's a colour photo of 23314 (Hawk One) on page 217 as it forlornly sits in the bone yard at CFB Mountain View, Ontario (near Trenton) on 26 June 1971. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Thanks, the boneyard is a sad place, but unless someone wants to "rescue" it's a fate most military aircraft have gone through since WWII. I am about to mask and paint my Hobbycraft GH Mk 6's slat area, pics are a GREAT help.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Scooby said: Yes, it is a combination of a Mk 5 and Mk 6. We used to have this jet in Cold Lake when it towed gunnery targets for us. It has a wing off a Mk 6 and fuselage from a Mk 5. The wing is NOT from a Mk6, it is a F-86F-40 wing. The aircraft that towed targets in Cold Lake was a ex-German Mk6 from Airspray. Edited June 30, 2018 by Snowbird3a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, john53 said: OK, gotcha. Don't want to steal the show but does anyone know anything about a Mk 5 that served at Summerside in 1955? I am doing a Hobbycraft Mk 5 with those markings and can find no proof or pictures. It was 23350 fuseslage SU-350. You seem to be my best hope with your RCAF knowledge.---Thanks---John page 231 of the Milberry bible has a photo of 23350 and it is captioned 'from the Central Flying School' in Trenton 'SU' does not mean Summerside. Tony Edited June 30, 2018 by Snowbird3a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Snowbird3a said: The wing is NOT from a Mk6, it is a F-86F-40 wing. The aircraft that towed targets in Cold Lake was a ex-South African Mk6 from Airspray. My mistake, I had always thought the Vintage Wings Sabre was the Airspray Sabre. I just read the history. The pilot of the Airspray Sabre definitely told me the fuselage was a Mk 5 and the wing was from a Mk 6. He also said he had all the logs from when the airframe was with the RCAF and he stated it flew with both 441 and 416. He also stated they painted the checkers on the tail to honour its time with 441. I trusted this info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scooby said: My mistake, I had always thought the Vintage Wings Sabre was the Airspray Sabre. I just read the history. The pilot of the Airspray Sabre definitely told me the fuselage was a Mk 5 and the wing was from a Mk 6. He also said he had all the logs from when the airframe was with the RCAF and he stated it flew with both 441 and 416. He also stated they painted the checkers on the tail to honour its time with 441. I trusted this info. The Airspray Sabre was ex-German(not South African) and one of the Sabres rescued by the late Ormond Hayden-Baillie. Never flew with the RCAF and was always a Mk6. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 let's return the thread back to the subject of ALF's Hawk One Sabre, now; Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 On 6/29/2018 at 8:18 AM, AX 365 said: I remember that day. That was a lot of fun, as it usually is. I still recall the F-22 demo. Wow! I remember 'shoe horning' my can into a Hornet a few years ago and then getting into Hawk One last year and being able to 'dance around'. There was certainly more room in the Sabre than there was in the Hornet. It was a thrill and a privilege being able to sit in both. Nice choice of subject, ALF. As a friendly reminder, Hawk One was a Sabre 5 fuselage with F-86F-40 wings with the 12" extensions. If you plan to build this as the late Hawk One, and the kit has the F-40 wings, you won't need to perform any surgery to graft the resin or plastic wing tips. As a reference... Look forward to your build, sire. Mike 😨 Oops. I already chopped off one wingtip. I really appreciate the information, Mike! Maybe it's not too late to reattach the original kit wingtips, if I have not damaged them too badly. You keep me properly in check, my friend. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Oh well. Life goes on. Not the end of the world. If you've just cut it off with a knife and not removed it off with a razor saw, you night be to repair it okay. A saw will remove too much material and you'll end up with lopsided wings. Ick. I just checked the stash to see if I had an F-86F-40 or Sabre 6 upstairs. I was going to trade you your wings for a new set from my stash but all I have are F-30's / 5's with the fence. It'll still look like a GH when you're done and that's all that matters. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 8:11 AM, AX 365 said: Oh well. Life goes on. Not the end of the world. If you've just cut it off with a knife and not removed it off with a razor saw, you night be to repair it okay. A saw will remove too much material and you'll end up with lopsided wings. Ick. I just checked the stash to see if I had an F-86F-40 or Sabre 6 upstairs. I was going to trade you your wings for a new set from my stash but all I have are F-30's / 5's with the fence. It'll still look like a GH when you're done and that's all that matters. Mike Always trying to help as usual, aren't you? Why am I not surprised how generous you can be? I'll be OK. I reattached the wingtip I chopped off, and it has left a gap but nothing that cannot be filled with putty and rescribed. I also got my hands on a proper Tutor seat, so it should look OK. Pics to follow soon. Have to go walk the dog now. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 After a long pause, I have progress to report. As Snowbird3A said, we now return you to our regularly-scheduled programming. This is the kit's wing. As the discussion was going on about which one it actually was, I chopped the tip off one side, just before my good friend AX_365 advised me not to. Oops. This is right after I chopped off the wingtip on the left side, and was dry-fitting the shortened wingtip. After I was told of my mistake, I glued the two halves of the chopped-off wingtip together, and saw it was not going to be too disastrous. Here is the assembled wing, with the reattached prosthetic left wingtip. A little putty, and it should be OK. In parallel, I was working on the cockpit. Lots of light grey, with black instruments. This particular aircraft started with some black instruments on a grey panel, and was later upgraded to a Garmin glass panel smack dab in the middle. When Mike and I sat in it at the Bagotville airshow, it already had the glass cockpit, but I chose to paint the black instruments on the panel anyway (earlier time period). I also installed the kit seat (which is quite terrible for detail) at this point. Then a wonderful ARCer came through, and sent me a resin seat. Much better! I will work on the seat in parallel, as I do the final assembly and painting of the aircraft. In the middle is the bulkhead that holds the seat rails in place. I will attempt to make it and the resin seat mate and look somewhat like the real thing. Then, installation of a bunch of fishing weights with some crazy glue. Some testing confirmed the seat-back bulkhead will fit in nicely after the fuselage is glued together. The fuselage went together nicely. Not much tape or clips required. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Here's a close-up of the reattached wingtip. Love the lines of this jet. This kit is very good; not many gaps, and good fit all around. Landing gear struts installed. Phew. Nose weight sufficient. More pics soon, after some puttying and primer. Thanks for stopping by! ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peterpools Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 ALF Very nice progress on the Sabre - fit does look very good. Keep 'em comin Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Sorry for the long pause. The building continued, but I was quite busy with visits to the kids in Montreal, plus the Rogers Cup Women's Tennis tournament in Montreal, and many other summer pursuits. No posts, but some progress made. Some primer (Tamiya light grey) applied. A coat of Tamiya acrylic gold leaf. This paint is quite nice. The fuel tanks. Wheels Black and silver painted. I used this metallic silver pen for some of it. Here is the glossy silver effect from that pen. More soon, I hope... ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Did you remove the small scoop at the RH speedbrake, as I see you left the raised panel on top of the fuselage. you model, your joy cheers, Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Snowbird3a said: Did you remove the small scoop at the RH speedbrake, as I see you left the raised panel on top of the fuselage. you model, your joy cheers, Tony Tony, my lack of intimate knowledge of this airframe is glaringly obvious, isn't it? I can see in this picture that the upper fuselage just forward of the tail does not have a raised section. Oops. Could you please explain what you mean by the small scoop at the RH speedbrake? Thanks for keeping me honest... 🙂 ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) The Hasegawa kit has a small scoop ahead of the airbrake door, not on the real aircraft. I saw it on a pic posted 22 July Edited August 12, 2018 by Snowbird3a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 22 hours ago, Snowbird3a said: The Hasegawa kit has a small scoop ahead of the airbrake door, not on the real aircraft. I saw it on a pic posted 22 July Ah, I see what you mean. Crap. I'm so happy with the gold paint, that I'm not sure if I will correct those two errors. Thanks again for pointing them out, Tony. Any further input before I make more mistakes? 🙂 ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 ALF, if it were me, I would seriously putty and sand that ugly wingtip that you glued back on. It sticks out like a sore thumb. But it’s your model, your joy cheers, Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Snowbird3a said: ALF, if it were me, I would seriously putty and sand that ugly wingtip that you glued back on. It sticks out like a sore thumb. But it’s your model, your joy cheers, Tony True, Tony, it does stand out a bit, but in person it is not as bad as the photos so far in the thread make it look. I am a bit concerned that I might make it worse by trying to repair. As you say: "your model, your joy." I truly appreciate the feedback. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 Okay, after some gentle prodding, I tried a wingtip fix. Before: And after a bit of sanding and repainting. Not perfect, but a bit better. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I like the revised repair job ALF. She looks much better. Glad you were able to make the repair. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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