freshnewstart Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Anyone who can tell me why Italeri do raised panellines, even its wrong? I bought No 1319 and 1271 and 099 yesterday.. I had to open them, pretty dissapointing sight ill say Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Raised panel lines on a kit are easy to create as they are recessed in the metal mold. Recessed kit lines are not as they are raised lines on the mold. Italieri often rents other manufacturers molds and those molds could be rather old and feature raised lines on the kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Good pointed out, thanx 😊 On 1319 box wich is Rafale M stands "upgraded mould".. the old one must have been really really bad cause new upgrade present flaws and warped wings with deep misaligned casting on both tips.. because of the raised lines it will be to tuff, if not impossible to putty it.. Now i took grain p280 and removed all.. and it will be shown in paint instead.. Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Those kits are from 1993, 1980 and 1992, respectively, so they date from a time when raised panel lines were more commonly accepted by modellers, and more commonly produced by manufacturers because, as mentioned, they're easier and cheaper to produce. Specifically, those kits would have been developed with old-school techniques - a physical pattern and pantograph router would be used to grind the shape into a lump of tooling steel - so it would be much simpler to form the basic mold cavities, then carve in the panel lines (thus making them raised on the finished part). Remember, the tooling is a negative of the part, so a recessed panel line is actually raised on the tooling, and a raised panel line is recessed on the tooling. And it's much easier to cut a line than it is to carve everything away *except* a thin line. With newer technologies, it has become easier to machine the steel tooling to incorporate "recessed" panel lines, and modellers have come to expect it as the norm, so that's what manufacturers do now. Fun fact: some of the earliest Japanese kits to arrive with recessed panel lines drew criticism from IPMS types. Modellers were used to raised lines, and didn't like the new-fangled recessed malarkey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Eh, sanding off (or filling) all panel lines is no big loss, panel lines on 1/72 models are by definition grossly out of scale to begin with because even a .010 inch, 0.25mm, wide line on the model would be around 3/4 inch, 18mm, wide in real life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 hours ago, freshnewstart said: Good pointed out, thanx 😊 On 1319 box wich is Rafale M stands "upgraded mould".. the old one must have been really really bad cause new upgrade present flaws and warped wings with deep misaligned casting on both tips.. because of the raised lines it will be to tuff, if not impossible to putty it.. Now i took grain p280 and removed all.. and it will be shown in paint instead.. Jesper Italeri on their 1319 Rafale boxing only upgraded the bottom fuselage molds as they changed the drop tanks which in the past version were a perfect match of Heller Mirage 2000 ones, added lumps and bumps from modern Rafale and nothing else Italeri 1271 F-16 was the first boxing with some extra sprue parts for ADF variants,still they failed to tell you about moving the horizontal stabs and I don't know how good are those ADF parts, if anything this will be the 2nd time they upgraded their F-16 molds cause the first boxing (130) was more an F-16 FSD or a early Block 5 with small stabs, some kind of prototype-ish drop tanks and other weaponry, I don't remember it having raised panel lines but I remember that the earlier kits so 130 first version with FSD stuff 130 and 188 with upgraded molds still retained the warp free single/two-seat part that didn't require too much fumbling and cussing, past that part become AMT tier Can't say that much about the two-seat EF-2000, I only remember buying two of them at the same day, in the very same store, actually also at the same moment aaaaaaaaaaaaaand one had the intake ramp part while the other one did not and didn't even appear in the instructions Luigi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Conclusion must then be; I cannot trust/rely on whats in a box from Italeri! Lesson learned, no more from them.. In mente i know there is some very patient and skillfull builders Here, who can make amazing models, and done it with Italeri products. This dont fit my way of gluing parts together. Not yet atleast.. However there is plenty others to choose from.. Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just make sure to check one of the several reviews you usually get for nearly every model. First point to start would be scalemates.com HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Bunker Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 There are occasions where recessed panel lines are wrong - many WW2 types had lapped joints where a panel overlayed another, and neither raised or recessed lines show this correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RKic Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) Too bad you got taken in by the "upgraded moulding" labels on Italeri's box. That is sort of a dirty trick on their part. Having said that, raised panel lines don't look that bad, if they're done carefully. You can restore lines you lost to sanding, by drawing a scalpel blade across where you want the line, and then putting a little bit of Tamiya Extra Thin cement across the ridge that is formed. Others restore the line by gluing down stretched sprue. Still others just sand them all down and rescribe everything. Aircraft modelers' obsession with panel lines becomes nearly comical. Despite all the hand wringing over bringing out or reducing the panel lines, every approach that I've seen to it, is equally representational and equally "wrong". The guys who sand them off and then pencil them in at the end, probably come closest. But if there is more tedious aspect to modeling, then I haven't found it yet. Assembling individual link tank tracks comes close. I suppose if raised lines look wrong to you, then so be it. But you risk overlooking some fantastic older kits if you discount them outright (e.g., many Monogram models from the 80s - like the WW II bombers, the century series, the A-6 and EA-6, F-4C/D; also the sublime Tamiya Bewster Buffalo, and many others I'm not thinking of at this moment). Edited July 9, 2018 by RKic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) On 7/8/2018 at 8:50 PM, freshnewstart said: Conclusion must then be; I cannot trust/rely on whats in a box from Italeri! Lesson learned, no more from them.. In mente i know there is some very patient and skillfull builders Here, who can make amazing models, and done it with Italeri products. This dont fit my way of gluing parts together. Not yet atleast.. However there is plenty others to choose from.. Jesper I will try to help you filtering some 1/72 stuff from them -Alpha series Avoid their A-4 Skyhawks, only fetch them if you desperately need some decals due certain decal makers making those dang decals in the wrong scale from 10 years apart If you can't fetch Fujimi Intruders their LATEST A-6 line is good for the decals, their EA-6A is not that good due Italeri ignoring radome changes, failing to make a good rendition of the bigger antenna pod and molding a mix of late/early A-6E parts I would say to avoid their A-7 only if you are a perfectionist because right now there is no accurate 1/72 A-7, Fujimi still retains the first place, Italeri the second place but actually Airfix in certain areas has better shapes than Fujimi, the Hobbyboss kit is probably good for the wings, LANA pod and maybe some other random parts Avoid their AV-8B , TAV-8, GR.5/7 Harriers, instead buy their LATEST reboxes of Gr.3, FRS.1 and the upcoming AV-8A Harriers as those are Esci molds with good decals 'cept maybe for the Gr.3 decals due some people complaining about clouds and their inaccurate stencils Their A-10s are good, tad better than Academy, they have some shape errors around the nose and some hits and misses here and there, both OA-10 and A-10C have missing antennas (ditto for the Hasegawa A-10C) -Bravo series Their Flying wings are from AMT and they are OK As long someone is not coming up with a better B-57 Canberra then they are still the only gig inna town Avoid the B-58 due it being severely under-scale The B-52 is a nice dust catcher but I never bothered to read if it was accurate or not due it being big, pricey and uninspiring.Anyway Modelcollect is probably going to release the definitive Buff so just ignore it B-66 and EB-66 whatever, the only choice, fetch the later boxings due better decals XB-70, fetch it as is the only game in town -Charlie series Dunno about C-130, only owned their AC-47 and AC-119 and they looked ok, I'll be ignoring anything else cause I'm not into transport planes -Fox series Avoid the early F-4 releases (F-4E/F/G/RF and S), they are slightly underscale and overly simplified, maybe the only good is the turtle back that can act as good replacement for the Hasegawa, maybe buy their newer F-4C/D/J/whatever boxing due it being a Esci mould with a nice set of decals or just stick with Hasegawa Their F-5A/B are from Esci again they are the only game in town and actually pretty good, sadly they are OOP but I think a release will happen soon Their F-5E/F did not get their lines rescribed, buy only the later boxings cause they have re-modeled the weapons and also have better decals even though their aggressor choices are quite boring and they are sticking way too much with Swiss beer can subjects, pick Trumpeter/Copyboss F-5E only for the decals Inna case they will decide to re-release their F-8 fetch it for the decals hoping they will not pick C/D/H/K subjects and use them on the Academy Crusaders F-14 Tomcat, only if you have a child whom just watched Top Gun The almighty plainest F-15C and F-15E got their panel lines rescribed, fetch the later F-15C rebox just for the decals I'm starting to think that MAYBE Italeri should start to produce only decals cause their later F-16 reboxes are decal material and nothing else, oh well if your son just watched Iron Eagle then those F-16 shaped things are a good start Commoner F/A-18A/B/C/D/RF Hornet -> get the Academy Hornet and steal the decals and the MLG from Italeri Nuplane F-18 Super Hornet only if your son wants an Ace Combat 2 Super Bug otherwise just pretend that it didn't happen F-19 up to you YF-22 I'm starting to think that the definitive YF-22 is the Airfix kit with Italeri canopy F-22 a good start for an Ace Combat 3 F-22C conversion, maybe is also good for a cheap FB-22 conversion YF-23 requires money, requires a re-release, requires some sawing, requires scribing, some shapes are off, the good one is in the wrong scale and whatever Trump/Hobbyboss did wasn't worth of an Ace Combat appearance X-32 happiest airplane ever X-35 fugliest airplane ever F-35 something that shouldn't exists even in model kit form F-84F and RF-84 all of my mehs F-100 D/F only game in town, molds are from Esci/AMT, fetch the later reboxes, both have shape issues, other choice is just Trumpeter and I would buy the Trumpeter only for spare parts F-104 C/G/S Esci molds, decal and reconnaissance pod material, use C tail parts on Hasegawa F-104G, scratch the refueling probe or just fetch a Revell/Monogram F-104C F-111A and EF-111A Esci molds wait for the re-releas cause they are decal material for the Hasegawa F-111A and EF-111A even though Hasegawa still has to release them in either their scammish limited edition form or catalogue line F-117 decal material and a good base for a cheap Ace Combat 3 AF-117X Nav-Hawk conversion -За родину! series Mig-23 Flogger, Zvezda molds and I'm still failing to understand which company did/does the best 1/72 Mig-23, also both Italeri and Zvezda only have the later MLD tail and so far only Bilek released the MF version with the earlier tail in resin form Mig-29 Fulcrum is now decal material but you can steal the hump and slam it into Zvezda 9-13 and try to make a 9-12 from, till Zvezda one day will effin release a freaking 9-12 Mig-27 Flogger, Zvezda molds and I'm still failing to understand which company did/does the best 1/72 Mig-27 Mig-37, up to you Su-17/22 whatever Fitter fits your boat, Bilek molds just wait for Modelsvit to fix the void Su-27B Flanker decal material Su-33D Sea Flanker decal material Su-34 decal material and steal its nose to fix Trumpeter Su-34 Tu-22 & Tu-22M seriously I don't know, read lots of complaints for the Blinder, can't say anything about the Tu-22M -What is sadly left of Europe, aircrafts EF-2000 decal material for either Hasegawa or Revell, maybe good for a prototype/fsd or a cheap Ace Combat 3 EF-2000E but that's it MB-326 why I should bother about it MB-339 only game in town Mirage 2000C/D companies always release the good stuff in the wrong scale Rafale either theirs or Hobbyboss which are underscale Tornado ADV/F3 IDS, ECR and SEAD decal material 'cept for the ADV/F3 cause most companies are just too busy releasing the same aircraft every freaking year, keep in mind that right now there are around 5 molding variants of the IDS/ECR/MRCA boxing, I had them written somewhere but I can't find THAT small piece of paper -Outsiders Kfir/F-21 whelp the AMK exists but the F-21 wings are good for the AMK lack of a good F-21 Whatever I'm missing that will be probably written in a part 2 😄 Anyone is free to correct me, I don't hate Italeri and I do understand that they are a choice amongst others but it pisses me off their laziness towards certain subjects that are easily available at any local military scrapyard Luigi Edited July 10, 2018 by Mizar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 10:35 PM, RKic said: Too bad you got taken in by the "upgraded moulding" labels on Italeri's box. That is sort of a dirty trick on their part. Having said that, raised panel lines don't look that bad, if they're done carefully. You can restore lines you lost to sanding, by drawing a scalpel blade across where you want the line, and then putting a little bit of Tamiya Extra Thin cement across the ridge that is formed. Others restore the line by gluing down stretched sprue. Still others just sand them all down and rescribe everything. Aircraft modelers' obsession with panel lines becomes nearly comical. Despite all the hand wringing over bringing out or reducing the panel lines, every approach that I've seen to it, is equally representational and equally "wrong". The guys who sand them off and then pencil them in at the end, probably come closest. But if there is more tedious aspect to modeling, then I haven't found it yet. Assembling individual link tank tracks comes close. I suppose if raised lines look wrong to you, then so be it. But you risk overlooking some fantastic older kits if you discount them outright (e.g., many Monogram models from the 80s - like the WW II bombers, the century series, the A-6 and EA-6, F-4C/D; also the sublime Tamiya Bewster Buffalo, and many others I'm not thinking of at this moment). Thanks for the input, and your right. But i will try to explain my acces to modelling. I do not have any connection to a specific airplane. I look around and choose planes that i find beautyfull, and there is a lot i dont want to collect dust in my home.. I have no specific interest in the history behind, but ofcourse i learn a bit. I will open a box and be able to glue parts together without aftermarket and modifications, and At least i expect a deacent quality of what i pay money for. I am educated in paint, as a industrial surface technician.. and find some inner calm in the challenge of painting the model i choosed.. Maybe in time ahead my modelling will get more detailled .. For now i just enjoy those who do that.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 12:05 AM, Mizar said: I will try to help you filtering some 1/72 stuff from them -Alpha series Avoid their A-4 Skyhawks, only fetch them if you desperately need some decals due certain decal makers making those dang decals in the wrong scale from 10 years apart If you can't fetch Fujimi Intruders their LATEST A-6 line is good for the decals, their EA-6A is not that good due Italeri ignoring radome changes, failing to make a good rendition of the bigger antenna pod and molding a mix of late/early A-6E parts I would say to avoid their A-7 only if you are a perfectionist because right now there is no accurate 1/72 A-7, Fujimi still retains the first place, Italeri the second place but actually Airfix in certain areas has better shapes than Fujimi, the Hobbyboss kit is probably good for the wings, LANA pod and maybe some other random parts Avoid their AV-8B , TAV-8, GR.5/7 Harriers, instead buy their LATEST reboxes of Gr.3, FRS.1 and the upcoming AV-8A Harriers as those are Esci molds with good decals 'cept maybe for the Gr.3 decals due some people complaining about clouds and their inaccurate stencils Their A-10s are good, tad better than Academy, they have some shape errors around the nose and some hits and misses here and there, both OA-10 and A-10C have missing antennas (ditto for the Hasegawa A-10C) -Bravo series Their Flying wings are from AMT and they are OK As long someone is not coming up with a better B-57 Canberra then they are still the only gig inna town Avoid the B-58 due it being severely under-scale The B-52 is a nice dust catcher but I never bothered to read if it was accurate or not due it being big, pricey and uninspiring.Anyway Modelcollect is probably going to release the definitive Buff so just ignore it B-66 and EB-66 whatever, the only choice, fetch the later boxings due better decals XB-70, fetch it as is the only game in town -Charlie series Dunno about C-130, only owned their AC-47 and AC-119 and they looked ok, I'll be ignoring anything else cause I'm not into transport planes -Fox series Avoid the early F-4 releases (F-4E/F/G/RF and S), they are slightly underscale and overly simplified, maybe the only good is the turtle back that can act as good replacement for the Hasegawa, maybe buy their newer F-4C/D/J/whatever boxing due it being a Esci mould with a nice set of decals or just stick with Hasegawa Their F-5A/B are from Esci again they are the only game in town and actually pretty good, sadly they are OOP but I think a release will happen soon Their F-5E/F did not get their lines rescribed, buy only the later boxings cause they have re-modeled the weapons and also have better decals even though their aggressor choices are quite boring and they are sticking way too much with Swiss beer can subjects, pick Trumpeter/Copyboss F-5E only for the decals Inna case they will decide to re-release their F-8 fetch it for the decals hoping they will not pick C/D/H/K subjects and use them on the Academy Crusaders F-14 Tomcat, only if you have a child whom just watched Top Gun The almighty plainest F-15C and F-15E got their panel lines rescribed, fetch the later F-15C rebox just for the decals I'm starting to think that MAYBE Italeri should start to produce only decals cause their later F-16 reboxes are decal material and nothing else, oh well if your son just watched Iron Eagle then those F-16 shaped things are a good start Commoner F/A-18A/B/C/D/RF Hornet -> get the Academy Hornet and steal the decals and the MLG from Italeri Nuplane F-18 Super Hornet only if your son wants an Ace Combat 2 Super Bug otherwise just pretend that it didn't happen F-19 up to you YF-22 I'm starting to think that the definitive YF-22 is the Airfix kit with Italeri canopy F-22 a good start for an Ace Combat 3 F-22C conversion, maybe is also good for a cheap FB-22 conversion YF-23 requires money, requires a re-release, requires some sawing, requires scribing, some shapes are off, the good one is in the wrong scale and whatever Trump/Hobbyboss did wasn't worth of an Ace Combat appearance X-32 happiest airplane ever X-35 fugliest airplane ever F-35 something that shouldn't exists even in model kit form F-84F and RF-84 all of my mehs F-100 D/F only game in town, molds are from Esci/AMT, fetch the later reboxes, both have shape issues, other choice is just Trumpeter and I would buy the Trumpeter only for spare parts F-104 C/G/S Esci molds, decal and reconnaissance pod material, use C tail parts on Hasegawa F-104G, scratch the refueling probe or just fetch a Revell/Monogram F-104C F-111A and EF-111A Esci molds wait for the re-releas cause they are decal material for the Hasegawa F-111A and EF-111A even though Hasegawa still has to release them in either their scammish limited edition form or catalogue line F-117 decal material and a good base for a cheap Ace Combat 3 AF-117X Nav-Hawk conversion -За родину! series Mig-23 Flogger, Zvezda molds and I'm still failing to understand which company did/does the best 1/72 Mig-23, also both Italeri and Zvezda only have the later MLD tail and so far only Bilek released the MF version with the earlier tail in resin form Mig-29 Fulcrum is now decal material but you can steal the hump and slam it into Zvezda 9-13 and try to make a 9-12 from, till Zvezda one day will effin release a freaking 9-12 Mig-27 Flogger, Zvezda molds and I'm still failing to understand which company did/does the best 1/72 Mig-27 Mig-37, up to you Su-17/22 whatever Fitter fits your boat, Bilek molds just wait for Modelsvit to fix the void Su-27B Flanker decal material Su-33D Sea Flanker decal material Su-34 decal material and steal its nose to fix Trumpeter Su-34 Tu-22 & Tu-22M seriously I don't know, read lots of complaints for the Blinder, can't say anything about the Tu-22M -What is sadly left of Europe, aircrafts EF-2000 decal material for either Hasegawa or Revell, maybe good for a prototype/fsd or a cheap Ace Combat 3 EF-2000E but that's it MB-326 why I should bother about it MB-339 only game in town Mirage 2000C/D companies always release the good stuff in the wrong scale Rafale either theirs or Hobbyboss which are underscale Tornado ADV/F3 IDS, ECR and SEAD decal material 'cept for the ADV/F3 cause most companies are just too busy releasing the same aircraft every freaking year, keep in mind that right now there are around 5 molding variants of the IDS/ECR/MRCA boxing, I had them written somewhere but I can't find THAT small piece of paper -Outsiders Kfir/F-21 whelp the AMK exists but the F-21 wings are good for the AMK lack of a good F-21 Whatever I'm missing that will be probably written in a part 2 😄 Anyone is free to correct me, I don't hate Italeri and I do understand that they are a choice amongst others but it pisses me off their laziness towards certain subjects that are easily available at any local military scrapyard Luigi Thanks for that massive collection you made here, ind i most suddenly will check it before my next purchase.. 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RKic Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 hours ago, freshnewstart said: I will open a box and be able to glue parts together without aftermarket and modifications, and At least i expect a deacent quality of what i pay money for. I am educated in paint, as a industrial surface technician.. and find some inner calm in the challenge of painting the model i choosed.. I understand. Most of the time, I'm this way too. When I open a model, I want to.put the parts together, and not have to worry about fixing the parts. Sometimes I like to build the classic kits because it reminds me of my youth (which seems so far away now). 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, freshnewstart said: Thanks for that massive collection you made here, ind i most suddenly will check it before my next purchase.. No problem and thanks ^^ I was thinking about part 2 for helicopters and WW2 planes but I don't have a good knowledge about their WW2 subjects cause when I was hoarding kits, the only WW2 subjects I had interest into were German night-fighters, anything German with winter and uncommon camouflage, anti tank planes, something allied to avoid wehraboo/nazi-fanboy calls and then I gave up...partially sold whatever I had, kept the German planes and now I'm thinking if I must really throw some money for a Spitfire with invasion stripes that pleases my tastes, a orange painted P-51D for an Art of Fighting diorama, some other generic allied plane that is NOT painted in natural metal, a gracious amount of soviet wooden ventilators and an undisclosed amount of Japanese fighters and bombers.For sure get their HS-129 as is the only game in town, B1 moldings got upgraded, they are dirt cheap and luckily there is good aftermarket for the B3 variant, for the rest search/ask on the prop forum Helos pretty much the same for WW2 subjects with a little twist for more famous ones CH-47D - ACH-47A - MH-47E plus a not so common box which include a different nose for a radar equipped variant, my thoughts are that the rear tower is wrong, panel lines seems to be the ones from a earlier CH-47A, Italeri never upgraded their molds and instead they just added extra sprue for specific variants, the MH-47E blades required a small fix and maybe everything else but the rear tower is ok.I got a Mono Chrone Ch-47J which is basically a Trumpeter CH-47D with Japanese decals and I'm going to stick with it and only buy an Italeri kit if need something from it UH-1B/C seriously is a mess check/search/ask on helicopter forums, I gave up on them UH-1D is an Esci mold, need main rotor and possibly tail rotor replacement, something is also wrong in both crew and passenger doors UH-1F and AB-204, both are same kit difference are just in engine exhaust position and maybe the winch, anyway main rotor needs to be replaced and for the UH-1F the weapon system and PSYOPS gigs scratch build and reference are required as Italeri gave you nothing UH-1N - AB-212 and AB-412, sadly only Revell added some extra parts for both, nose is wrong and requires a small fix, panel lines need be redone due differences between the three variants AH-1T and AW-1W SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE THIS MAN A (newer) SUPER COBRA kit also an Ah-1J Hinds if you like me are planning to make different dioramas from S.T.A.L.K.E.R series then get them to make damaged/crashed helicopters, otherwise don't be cheap and BUY Zvezda Hinds instead Hips get Hobbyboss or get Hobbyboos to fix Zvezda nose errors or get Hobbyboss and purchase more aftermarket to fix an unforgivable error they did in spite of charging you twice for the same model but with different decals Kiowa both OH-58D/AH-58 warrior and AB-206 only game in town, can't make anything past Desert Storm CH-53 - MH-53 - HH-53 alphabet soup of Jolly Green and Jolly Giants, some have their rotor turning in the wrong position, some others I think are fine mostly the MH-53E as they had a different rotor mast (or maybe not), yet anything past Desert Storm is a big nope, all of them require to be accurately fixed and have some shapes issue Comanche can't be made as the later stage prototype without scratching Apache and Apache Longbow just get the Academy even though the A is kinda ok OH-6 get only the Nightfox,get a generic AZ or Special Hobby boxing and mount the Defender parts on them, if not you are gold with the Italeri kit Ka-27/Ka-29 between Zvezda reboxed by Italeri and Hobbyboss I don't really know which one is better than the other Ka-50 Zvezda upgraded their molds, be aware that the Night Attack version comes with a double flir nose which is wrong, Prop & Jet released a resin fix for that but is now OOP so get Zvezda 7216 (the one with a camouflage Hokum on cover), sadly there are not production machine a/m parts so lots of scratching ahead Mi-28 can build only a prototype machine, same molds as Zvezda/Dragon, Revell has his own mold but is less detailed Super Puma and Cougar, the only game in town, compared to Heller they are pretty similar sadly build choices are limited cause no aftermarket love for them 😕 Black Hawks and Sea Hawks this territory is up to rotorhead buffs, for the Seahawk I've chosen the Hobbyboss and for the only two Black Hawks I have interest into so a Pave Hawk and a DAP I'm probably going to pick either of them and build a Frankenstein Now that I think about it I also forgot about Italeri Su-24 and Il-28, I think the Il-28 was OK for it's time and maybe Trumpeter released a more detailed version (with a big IF), as for the Su-24 for now Trumpeter in the future maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Modelsvit ? This concludes part 2 😛 Luigi Edited July 11, 2018 by Mizar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Mizar said: No problem and thanks ^^ I was thinking about part 2 for helicopters and WW2 planes but I don't have a good knowledge about their WW2 subjects cause when I was hoarding kits, the only WW2 subjects I had interest into were German night-fighters, anything German with winter and uncommon camouflage, anti tank planes, something allied to avoid wehraboo/nazi-fanboy calls and then I gave up...partially sold whatever I had, kept the German planes and now I'm thinking if I must really throw some money for a Spitfire with invasion stripes that pleases my tastes, a orange painted P-51D for an Art of Fighting diorama, some other generic allied plane that is NOT painted in natural metal, a gracious amount of soviet wooden ventilators and an undisclosed amount of Japanese fighters and bombers.For sure get their HS-129 as is the only game in town, B1 moldings got upgraded, they are dirt cheap and luckily there is good aftermarket for the B3 variant, for the rest search/ask on the prop forum Helos pretty much the same for WW2 subjects with a little twist for more famous ones CH-47D - ACH-47A - MH-47E plus a not so common box which include a different nose for a radar equipped variant, my thoughts are that the rear tower is wrong, panel lines seems to be the ones from a earlier CH-47A, Italeri never upgraded their molds and instead they just added extra sprue for specific variants, the MH-47E blades required a small fix and maybe everything else but the rear tower is ok.I got a Mono Chrone Ch-47J which is basically a Trumpeter CH-47D with Japanese decals and I'm going to stick with it and only buy an Italeri kit if need something from it UH-1B/C seriously is a mess check/search/ask on helicopter forums, I gave up on them UH-1D is an Esci mold, need main rotor and possibly tail rotor replacement, something is also wrong in both crew and passenger doors UH-1F and AB-204, both are same kit difference are just in engine exhaust position and maybe the winch, anyway main rotor needs to be replaced and for the UH-1F the weapon system and PSYOPS gigs scratch build and reference are required as Italeri gave you nothing UH-1N - AB-212 and AB-412, sadly only Revell added some extra parts for both, nose is wrong and requires a small fix, panel lines need be redone due differences between the three variants AH-1T and AW-1W SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE THIS MAN A (newer) SUPER COBRA kit also an Ah-1J Hinds if you like me are planning to make different dioramas from S.T.A.L.K.E.R series then get them to make damaged/crashed helicopters, otherwise don't be cheap and BUY Zvezda Hinds instead Hips get Hobbyboss or get Hobbyboos to fix Zvezda nose errors or get Hobbyboss and purchase more aftermarket to fix an unforgivable error they did in spite of charging you twice for the same model but with different decals Kiowa both OH-58D/AH-58 warrior and AB-206 only game in town, can't make anything past Desert Storm CH-53 - MH-53 - HH-53 alphabet soup of Jolly Green and Jolly Giants, some have their rotor turning in the wrong position, some others I think are fine mostly the MH-53E as they had a different rotor mast (or maybe not), yet anything past Desert Storm is a big nope, all of them require to be accurately fixed and have some shapes issue Comanche can't be made as the later stage prototype without scratching Apache and Apache Longbow just get the Academy even though the A is kinda ok OH-6 get only the Nightfox,get a generic AZ or Special Hobby boxing and mount the Defender parts on them, if not you are gold with the Italeri kit Ka-27/Ka-29 between Zvezda reboxed by Italeri and Hobbyboss I don't really know which one is better than the other Ka-50 Zvezda upgraded their molds, be aware that the Night Attack version comes with a double flir nose which is wrong, Prop & Jet released a resin fix for that but is now OOP so get Zvezda 7216 (the one with a camouflage Hokum on cover), sadly there are not production machine a/m parts so lots of scratching ahead Mi-28 can build only a prototype machine, same molds as Zvezda/Dragon, Revell has his own mold but is less detailed Super Puma and Cougar, the only game in town, compared to Heller they are pretty similar sadly build choices are limited cause no aftermarket love for them 😕 Black Hawks and Sea Hawks this territory is up to rotorhead buffs, for the Seahawk I've chosen the Hobbyboss and for the only two Black Hawks I have interest into so a Pave Hawk and a DAP I'm probably going to pick either of them and build a Frankenstein Now that I think about it I also forgot about Italeri Su-24 and Il-28, I think the Il-28 was OK for it's time and maybe Trumpeter released a more detailed version (with a big IF), as for the Su-24 for now Trumpeter in the future maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Modelsvit ? This concludes part 2 😛 Luigi Again many thanks.. I dont remember the boxing but i recall that i threw an Italeri Apache in the trash about ten years ago. Those panels on each side didnt fit at all.. left side was even a little to long Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Luigi, your posts are EPIC! This thread needs to be pinned for future reference I can't figure out why Revell refuses to pantograph their fantastic 1/48 Rafale M down to 1/72. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 hours ago, freshnewstart said: Again many thanks.. I dont remember the boxing but i recall that i threw an Italeri Apache in the trash about ten years ago. Those panels on each side didnt fit at all.. left side was even a little to long You're welcome, as for the Apache I still have one surviving in my room, other three got hit by a falling book and whatever was after it that destroyed around 20 models and lots of cussing 😕 9 hours ago, JackMan said: Luigi, your posts are EPIC! This thread needs to be pinned for future reference I can't figure out why Revell refuses to pantograph their fantastic 1/48 Rafale M down to 1/72. Thanks Jackman, I was planning to make a more readable reference with kit numbers etc ala Scalemates but finding pictures of certain models is a big pain,I pointed to them some errors they did in some of their trees but I didn't bother to check if they fixed them. From time to time I purchase some kit that fills some gaps but hoarders, collectors and decal junkies are a big problem, right now Fujimi R33 GTR family is giving me PTSD as some kits didn't it the catalogues yet they pop here and there in Japanese stores and judging from the pictures it looks like that Fujimi upgraded their R33 bodies around 3 times then made 3 different bumpers for the 95 and 97 V-Spec, possibly recycled them for the Tommy Kaira and the Kansai, added specific parts and roll cage for RGO edition and god only knows how many rims, spoilers and side mirrors were swapped between them.Can't even afford to hunt down all of them as prices are high and I don't feel like to buy anything other than the resin Nismo 400R conversion and a Tommy Kaira R33 and customize it with parts from a '97 R33 V-spec and I don't remember which kind of rims I used on my Gran Turismo 2 car I do ALSO share the Rafale pain, I think they probably gave up on it due Hobbyboss, if the Italeri kit is dimensionally accurate the only right thing to do is to fix it using Hobbyboss kit as reference, or if Lonestar from Japan managed to fix the Mirage 2000 with his resin conversion (still have to buy it to check) then send some plans to him and wait for his response, I know that a resin kit will not be the best answer for the lack of a proper Rafale but is still better than nothing ^^ Lugi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Lone Star is still in Texas. I know who you mean but can't recall his name. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: Lone Star is still in Texas. I know who you mean but can't recall his name. No, not THAT Lone Star. The Japanese Lone Star is this one: http://lonestars.web.fc2.com/ And the Mirage 2000 correction set that Luigi is talking about is this one: http://lonestars.web.fc2.com/LSR7214.htm And: http://lonestars.web.fc2.com/LSR7215.htm Main Sales page: http://lonestars.web.fc2.com/SALES.htm I've bought from him before and he is an excellent gentleman to deal with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Seriously? I wonder who came on the scene first? Edited July 13, 2018 by Slartibartfast Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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