chuck540z3 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Keep experimenting Joel, but do it between real modeling projects, where a screw up can be painful. There are no hard and fast rules, because airbrush painting is a complicated combination of: Air pressure (flowing, not shut-in) Amount of paint (as controlled by dual-action) Type of paint Viscosity of paint Type of thinner used Humidity Temperature Skill of the operator Every modeler has their own "recipe" of how to airbrush, based upon the above and lots of experience- and I am still learning. While I have found a variety of techniques that work well with lacquers and enamels, I know some local modelers who do just as good a job (or better) with Tamiya acrylic paints thinned with Tamiya (yellow cap) lacquer. One trick that I did learn by accident is to use a small space heater (no open flames) near where I'm painting. My paint booth is in my unheated garage and when it's cold outside, it's pretty cold inside the garage. Using the space heater, it allows me to paint throughout the winter, but it also allows me to dry the paint quicker than it would at room temperature. It's sort of like "baking it on", when I move the painted surface closer to the heater. The paint doesn't get a chance to run if I apply it a bit heavy and I can often shoot two coats in one spray session. If you're spraying something that dries quickly like acrylic paint, however, I don't recommend any heat. Heat will just dry up the atomized paint in the air before it hits the model, creating that dusty and rough finish we all try to avoid. The overall goal is to get as wet of a surface as possible with the least air turbulence, then move on to another area so that the paint doesn't run. That's why spraying close to the surface with low air pressure is so important, which requires very thin paint so that the airbrush won't clog and sputter. Cheers, Chuck Edited October 19, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RCAFFAN Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Hey Chuck While those great pictures you took of the museum Mk I are interesting and should serve your purpose as to regards to a Mk IX, just remember that it is certainly not original production paint as a Mk I would have been green/brown uppers when produced and during the BOB and it was obviously repainted after the topside cammo changed later in the war. However, your IX would have been produced in the Green/grey topsides so It will still work for you. As to the new Tamiya lacquer paints, Modelland in Calgary have had the full line in stock for quite a while, just so you know..... Cheers Bruce Edited October 19, 2018 by RCAFFAN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, RCAFFAN said: Hey Chuck While those great pictures you took of the museum Mk I are interesting and should serve your purpose as to regards to a Mk IX, just remember that it is certainly not original production paint as a Mk I would have been green/brown uppers when produced and during the BOB and it was obviously repainted after the topside cammo changed later in the war. However, your IX would have been produced in the Green/grey topsides so It will still work for you. As to the new Tamiya lacquer paints, Modelland in Calgary have had the full line in stock for quite a while, just so you know..... Cheers Bruce Totally understand and I agree Bruce. Apparently this Spit was produced in 1939 and obviously survived the war, so I bet it was painted a couple of times. Having said that, even if the wear and weathering was from 1947 onward, it's sure better than looking at pics of a newly restored and painted Spitfire that has been modified, if you're trying to replicate the war time look. Also, I have the two Bracken books, "Spitfire, The Canadians, Volume I and II", which has LOTS of reference pics for this specific build. From what I can see, this museum Spit looks pretty close to the real deal. I will try to do my best! Good to know that Modelland has the new Tamiya lacquer paints. Unfortunately, I don't see Dark Green RAF (AS-30 in rattle can lacquer), Ocean Grey 2 RAF (AS-31) or Medium Sea Grey (AS-32), which are the specified paint colors for this Spitfire. In time and with more sales, these colors will likely come soon, but right now I need to stick with what I have in the old rattle cans. Cheers, Chuck Edited October 20, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Just some great work there Chuck. I like how you catch those small, and I do mean small, errors in your build. I have found I was able to do some similar things by polishing the plastic after assembly but it looks like your gloss black works like a charm. As for the new Tamiya Lacquer line, I was lead to believe that the new paints were mostly modern colours probably due to their new F-14 kits? But having said that, I may be wrong. Maybe we will see the RAF colours when their new Spitfire Mk.1 gets released or there abouts? I have heard that this new line is now available at one store here in Edmonton and I am anxious to try them. Edited October 20, 2018 by skyhawk174 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 17 hours ago, chuck540z3 said: Keep experimenting Joel, but do it between real modeling projects, where a screw up can be painful. There are no hard and fast rules, because airbrush painting is a complicated combination of: Air pressure (flowing, not shut-in) Amount of paint (as controlled by dual-action) Type of paint Viscosity of paint Type of thinner used Humidity Temperature Skill of the operator Every modeler has their own "recipe" of how to airbrush, based upon the above and lots of experience- and I am still learning. While I have found a variety of techniques that work well with lacquers and enamels, I know some local modelers who do just as good a job (or better) with Tamiya acrylic paints thinned with Tamiya (yellow cap) lacquer. One trick that I did learn by accident is to use a small space heater (no open flames) near where I'm painting. My paint booth is in my unheated garage and when it's cold outside, it's pretty cold inside the garage. Using the space heater, it allows me to paint throughout the winter, but it also allows me to dry the paint quicker than it would at room temperature. It's sort of like "baking it on", when I move the painted surface closer to the heater. The paint doesn't get a chance to run if I apply it a bit heavy and I can often shoot two coats in one spray session. If you're spraying something that dries quickly like acrylic paint, however, I don't recommend any heat. Heat will just dry up the atomized paint in the air before it hits the model, creating that dusty and rough finish we all try to avoid. The overall goal is to get as wet of a surface as possible with the least air turbulence, then move on to another area so that the paint doesn't run. That's why spraying close to the surface with low air pressure is so important, which requires very thin paint so that the airbrush won't clog and sputter. Cheers, Chuck Chuck, I've pretty much standardized paint and procedures for both race cars and aircraft, as they're completely different. Just need to continue to refine them the best I can. I guess I'm pretty lucky as I have not only my own modeling/computer room in the house, but my paint booth and venting system is in that room as well. The house has a 12 month temp control system, so we just set the temp and forget about it. Every room has vents that let your fine tune the heat or Air Conditioning (I'm always cold and my wife is always hot). Humidity is another issue. The house is to dry in the winter. I keep on saying I'm getting another humidifier but so far that hasn't happened. So the paint reacts differently depending on the season for me. Since I need two different procedures for cars or aircraft, the thinning of the paints is also very different. The lacquer paints for cars are by Gravity and come pre-thinned. And they're really thin. For aircraft I use Mr. Color and their self leveling thinner at a ratio of 1:1. I still use Tamiya Acrylics as I have way to many bottles to just box up. I thin those 1:1 as well, but use either Mr. Color Self Leveling thinner or their Yellow cap. The other difference is that painting car bodies, it's more like scaling down how they paint real cars. Slow, even passes, building up layers of colors slowly. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocat Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Very informative info and interesting tips always come with your updates. Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Not for anything but curiosity, look at this in danish museum 😊 They are going to paint it Museum spitfire Your build is amazing up til now Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 11:18 PM, skyhawk174 said: Just some great work there Chuck. I like how you catch those small, and I do mean small, errors in your build. I have found I was able to do some similar things by polishing the plastic after assembly but it looks like your gloss black works like a charm. Thanks everyone! Chris! Thanks for checking in. The main reason I check for and repair even the tiniest of flaws is that as you know, I do enter model contests now and then. There are some contest judges from Edmonton that are really, really tough, so I need to eliminate as many deductions as possible. 😉 Cheers, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CorsairMan Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 4:09 PM, chuck540z3 said: Keep experimenting ... Every modeler has their own "recipe" of how to airbrush... and lots of experience- and I am still learning. Yes, yes.... and more yes to all that The only way you are going to get good at anything is to do it. I have been painting with an airbrush for over 10 years and I am still learning different things and making adjustments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said: Thanks everyone! Chris! Thanks for checking in. The main reason I check for and repair even the tiniest of flaws is that as you know, I do enter model contests now and then. There are some contest judges from Edmonton that are really, really tough, so I need to eliminate as many deductions as possible. 😉 Cheers, Chuck Yeah you are probably right. Those darn judges sure are silly 😁 Although having said that, those moulding flaws would probably disappear under the camo as compared to a natural metal finish. But I do the same thing and make sure I try and catch all of the stuff you indicated. Too bad you were not able to come to our show in June. I was hoping to see the F-15. It was at a new location and much better than the museum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 34 minutes ago, CorsairMan said: Yes, yes.... and more yes to all that The only way you are going to get good at anything is to do it. I have been painting with an airbrush for over 10 years and I am still learning different things and making adjustments. Totally agree and that is why our hobby is so interesting. Like a golfer that always shoots par, there would be no real challenge if you did, so the game of golf would get pretty boring in no time. I still make a LOT of mistakes and I always like to try new things, which keeps me motivated to build yet another model and get it "right" the next time. 6 minutes ago, skyhawk174 said: Yeah you are probably right. Those darn judges sure are silly 😁 Although having said that, those moulding flaws would probably disappear under the camo as compared to a natural metal finish. But I do the same thing and make sure I try and catch all of the stuff you indicated. Too bad you were not able to come to our show in June. I was hoping to see the F-15. It was at a new location and much better than the museum. Chris. I'm pulling your leg of course. You and Gary are fine judges and from what I've seen so far, you guys get it right most of the time, even if my model does not win. I am planning to bring the Eagle to Nanton in June, along with my P-38L (which has not been to that contest or yours), along with this Spiftire, assuming I actually finish it! Cheers, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, chuck540z3 said: Chris. I'm pulling your leg of course. You and Gary are fine judges and from what I've seen so far, you guys get it right most of the time, even if my model does not win. I am planning to bring the Eagle to Nanton in June, along with my P-38L (which has not been to that contest or yours), along with this Spiftire, assuming I actually finish it! Cheers, Chuck Yeah I know 😁 you are such a funny guy. I know judging is a heartless job and very difficult I think. That is why it is always good to be part of a team. You know I am still upset about that show so many years ago when you entered your Hornet. I was sure it was going to be gold but with that point system it made it difficult. Surprised the heck out of me. Probably why they don't use it any more, thank goodness. Also, probably never told you before but I have been using your on line builds as inspiration. Now when I am building I ask myself, "what would Chuck do?" Of course i have not done any super detailled kits for awhile and the next few in the queue are all OOB. Looking forward to more of this amazing Spitfire build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 In hopes of advancing my own detailing skills, how do you decide which details you will replicate and which to leave out? Everything you decide to include you master. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, skyhawk174 said: Also, probably never told you before but I have been using your on line builds as inspiration. Now when I am building I ask myself, "what would Chuck do?" Of course i have not done any super detailled kits for awhile and the next few in the queue are all OOB. "What would Chuck do?" Wow, that has to be the singular best compliment I have ever received. Thanks Chris, but as you know, I'm just a modeling goof like the rest of you. 11 hours ago, jester292 said: In hopes of advancing my own detailing skills, how do you decide which details you will replicate and which to leave out? Everything you decide to include you master. Thank you. Good question and that answer has changed over the years. For example, I have several models where I have added extensive detailing in the landing gear bays and the gear legs. I don't think I have looked at the underside of any of them since I built them, so was that worth it? I don't think so, which is why I now only add detail to gear bays that you can see easily with a mirror underneath, as you can with my P-51D Mustang and P-38L Lightning. For my last Eagle build, the gear bays are almost devoid of extra detail, because those areas are tiny already, especially with most of the gear doors closed when the jet is parked. The landing gear, however, has a lot of new detail, because you can see them easily. Same for the interior of the engine intakes and exhausts. I was very careful to make these area as accurate as possible, since you can see this detail with a flashlight, which I've seen done a few times at model contests. So the answer I guess is fairly simple: If you can see it easily, detail it. If you can't, don't bother! Cheers, Chuck Edited October 22, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 10 hours ago, chuck540z3 said: Thank you. Good question and that answer has changed over the years. For example, I have several models where I have added extensive detailing in the landing gear bays and the gear legs. I don't think I have looked at the underside of any of them since I built them, so was that worth it? I don't think so, which is why I now only add detail to gear bays that you can see easily with a mirror underneath, as you can with my P-51D Mustang and P-38L Lightning. For my last Eagle build, the gear bays are almost devoid of extra detail, because those areas are tiny already, especially with most of the gear doors closed when the jet is parked. The landing gear, however, has a lot of new detail, because you can see them easily. Same for the interior of the engine intakes and exhausts. I was very careful to make these area as accurate as possible, since you can see this detail with a flashlight, which I've seen done a few times at model contests. So the answer I guess is fairly simple: If you can see it easily, detail it. If you can't, don't bother! Cheers, Chuck Excellent advice, thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Chuck, Can you elaborate about the polishing cloths ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, galfa said: Chuck, Can you elaborate about the polishing cloths ? galfa. The polishing cloths are made by Gunze/Mr. Hobby in Japan and they come in a variety of "grits". These grits are different than sandpaper, however, with their 4000 grit feeling more like Tamiya 1500 sandpaper. I recommend you buy a few different ones, with 4000, 6000 and 8000 as your core selection. The cloths are vinyl on a fabric backing and are therefore very flexible, allowing you to sand and polish curved surfaces. They can also be re-used a few times, if you just rinse them under warm water to dislodge accumulated dust and I cut the cloths up into small patches for ease of handling. They are most useful for fine sanding of paint and even clear canopies, just before the application of polishing compounds. I use them all the time between painting coats to remove fine contaminants and smooth out the surface. I forget where I bought mine, but they are fairly common in Asian hobby outlets and also likely much closer to home. Cheers, Chuck Edited October 23, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Chuck, Thank you very much ! Mr. Laplos is available at my LHS.I am going to give it a try soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) See next post below this one for the beginning. For some reason I can't edit this one properly. Same for the prop and with the gloss black on the wheels, which is a nice primer coat for Alclad aluminum. Here again, the exact color of the wheels is up to debate, so I went with what I liked the most and provided the most interesting contrast. Unfortunately, these Barracuda resin wheels are attached to the tires, so masking a small circle to protect the wheel from further paint is always a big challenge to get it looking clean and sharp. Time to pull out my Olfa Circle Cutter, which I’ve had unopened in the stash for at least 2 years. With some practice and a few messed up masks on the tightest, smallest setting, I think I’m getting the hang of it. Whew! I hate masking wheels, but with this new tool, making circular masks this size or larger is now much less of a pain. Later Boys, Chuck Edited October 24, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Very weird! My prior post was corrupted and now I can't edit it? Here is the first part that was missing... October 24/18 A quick update. I'm painting the bottom now, which is Tamiya's AS-32, Medium Sea Grey 2 (RAF) lacquer in a rattle can, which I decanted into a jar. I did not paint the bottom black first, because I don't plan on chipping any of it, but I will be getting it good and dirty with oil stains later. Here it is in my usual painting contraption of a box with pipe wrap on the sides to cushion the model, with shop towels to smooth out the rough surface. When thinned with about 40% Tamiya lacquer thinner, it sprays beautifully with no orange peel or roughness. You might note that the wheel wells are pre-painted the same color, which the instructions call for, and the portion protected with foam was sprayed with Alclad Aluminum. I made the mistake of checking what color the wheel wells should be on the 'net and found post after post arguing that it should be the underside color, while others were certain that it should be aluminum/silver. This reminds me of similar arguments concerning the wheel well color of P-51D Mustangs, which are never ending and at this stage, I don't care. Medium Sea Grey it is! Almost as expected, however, I had the same seam flaws on the gun surrounds that I had on the top of the wing. These were repaired, then the paint was smoothed out at the edges with a #4000 polishing cloth to prep for another coat of paint. Also note that I have not masked off anything between the upper and lower surface, to avoid paint build up along a sharp edge. That will be done when I paint the upper camo surface. As usual, miscellaneous parts get the gloss black treatment, in preparation for further coats of paint. The reasons I do this are explained in my post on October 17th. Cheers Chuck Edited October 24, 2018 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 These decanted paints work like a dream. Good progress! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Looking good Chuck, keep it going. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Hi Chuck . Watching your Spitfire build with great interest . Fascinating as usual. I watched the Plexus commercial but it dealt with large surfaces . How do you recommend to use it on canopies ? Regards, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Chris L said: Hi Chuck . Watching your Spitfire build with great interest . Fascinating as usual. I watched the Plexus commercial but it dealt with large surfaces . How do you recommend to use it on canopies ? Regards, Christian Thanks Christian, All I do is spray it on a small soft cloth then apply it to the plastic. After a few minutes of drying, I buff off any residue using either another clean cloth and/or a soft Q-Tip. If I used it more than once a year I suppose decanting it into a jar would make sense, but I actually use this stuff on my wife's real sports car with a plastic rear window, so I just leave it in the spray can for future use. Cheers, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 8:08 AM, chuck540z3 said: 1 - Very weird! My prior post was corrupted and now I can't edit it? 2 - I don't care. Medium Sea Grey it is! 1- Chuck broke the internet. 2 - Good for you. Build it the way you want to. Chuck - after my last post, I was looking through some photos I have here. Regarding the notch at the muzzle of the cannon barrel, it's supposed to be there. Although the photo I have is that of the cannon armed Hurricane of Vintage Wings of Canada, you can clearly see the notches in the barrel. And, I asked a friend who flew Spitfires and your supposition for the notches is correct; to screw the barrels into the wings and to remove them. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.