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Hello, 

Regarding 3-D printers; would anyone happen to know if there are any out there that are best tailored to making model parts or are they all pretty much "six of one, half dozen of the other?" 

 

Thanks! 

Edited by Hawk1270
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Just gotta do the research. Some things of importance:

 

Resolution.  3D printers print in layers. When you do a curved surface (like a flying saucer) you get hundreds to thousands of tiny "steps" (think Legos). The resolution determines how fine these steps will be, and the smaller the steps, the longer the object takes to make, which increases the expense factor. Also when done, you have a choice of just sanding the surface smooth, or first filling, THEN sanding the surface smooth.  Either way, you're not gonna make any cheap Easter eggs!

 

Next, you have size of the work area, usually 3" x 4" or some such. The larger the area, the more expensive the machine.

 

Ditto, the height of the object you can create. If you're only making small objects,  a cheaper machine will probably do.

 

Lastly, you have whether the working base is heated or not -- useful for some items and materials.

 

There are probably more, but you get the idea. These factors are why lots of folks just go to Shapeways, and get the printing done there -- cheaper in many cases.

 

One last consideration, some machines are said to have 3D scanners built in. If so, I can really see that as being useful for quickly creating a print pattern from a 3D master.

 

Good luck,

 

Ed

 

 

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16 hours ago, Hawk1270 said:

would anyone happen to know if there are any out there that are best tailored to making model parts

 

What do you want to make?

What is your budget?

What technology are you looking at?

What effort are you willing to put in to using it?

 

Resolution... is complicated.  No matter what the technology, you will have separate resolutions for the X/Y (horizontal) and Z (vertical) axes.  (if you think in terms of a conventional printer, X/Y is like the resolution you print on the paper, while Z is the thickness of the paper).  Z-axis resolution probably shouldn't be your main concern; it's a simple relationship between stepper motor resolution (how many steps per revolution) and screw pitch, and at this point, any printer can run thin layers.  The more significant figure will be X/Y resolution, and specifically minimum feature size, which is determined by beam width, screen resolution or nozzle diameter, and will determine how detailed each individual layer can be.

 

Build volume will be a combination of technology and price.  Within each specific technology class, smaller will usually be cheaper, but the standard sizes will vary between technologies - what's typical for a DLP printer would be miniscule for an FDM printer.  Height is an issue inasmuch as the printer will come with a set of Z-axis rails/screws/bearings/V-slot/whatever, but there isn't actually any real limiting factor for height - if you want a taller printer, you can simply install longer components (assuming the printer's firmware is open-source enough to let you do so). 

 

Heated beds are only relevant to FDM printers, and they're pretty ubiquitous on them at this point.  If you're looking at getting a printer as a hobby, any of the printers that are worth considering will have one.

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Real Mr Ed, MoFo,

 

Thank you both very much for the replies!  That was a huge help in clearing up some of the questions I had.  Budget-wise I was looking to spend about $300 to $500 and what I wanted to make mainly consisted of building parts from 1/32 to 1/144 scale.   

 

Yes, there are a ton of 3D printers out there that range in price and functionality.  Since I wrote this I learned about the "Creality Ender 3" printer  which retails for about $180.  The printing specs show this as having an area size of 220 X 220 X 250 mm and the machine size is 440 X 410 X 465 mm which should work fine for what I want to make.  The reviews on it are mostly good and for 180 bucks I figured if I do decide to pull the trigger on it there's not much to lose.  If I do decide to buy it I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

Thanks again for the help!    😊

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What, specifically, do you want to make, though.

 

If you want to make detail parts, like cockpits, wheels or engines, then an FDM printer like the Ender 3 really isn't suited to the task; you'd be far better off with an SLA or DLP printer.  If you want to make larger components, like fuselage parts, that will be possible, but you won't really be able to resolve any fine surface detail - you'd need to scribe any panel lines after it's printed.

 

The Ender 3 is a good entry-level machine - for a novice printer, I'd say that, the Monoprice Mini (smaller, but fully pre-assembled) and the Prusa Mk2.5 or Mk3  (more expensive, but better components) are the only machines worth considering unless there's a specific requirement that makes you consider something else (if you need bigger, get a CR-10, for instance).

 

HOWEVER.

 

Any 3D printer you buy is a hobby unto itself, and this is particularly true at the budget end.  It's not an appliance that you plug in and press start; there's a steep learning curve to using them, to troubleshooting the many problems you'll experience along the way, and to tweaking and wrenching on them to keep them functioning.  As an analogy, it's not like buying a computer in 2018, where you plug it in and go check out facebook; it's like buying a computer kit in 1978, where you need to be able to diagnose which specific chip, capacitor or diode is acting up, and fix the problems with the code you're trying to run.  It's rewarding when it works well, and it's an enjoyable hobby, but it does take quite a bit of effort.

 

I'd also note that the cost of the printer is just the price of entry.  Particularly with a budget machine, you'll quickly find there are things you want to upgrade - new fans and vibration dampers are two big ones, to quiet the machine down; a new hotend to print ABS, HIPS and PETG; a bed leveling sensor; a Raspberry Pi and webcam for Octoprint, etc. etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun and rewarding hobby, and you can do some cool, impressive stuff with home printers.  But most people have a pretty warped idea of what to expect, so it's worth adjusting your expectations to better reflect reality.

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Hi Guys,

 

At present I mainly want to make resin-type parts.  I'd like to possibly even print and build scale aircraft or conversions that aren't offered as a model or are no longer available.  Of course for a complete air frame I'd have to (depending on scale) possibly print it in sections and assemble them.  I'm also aware this might involve a lot in getting it to work right.....I know a lot of clean up work like sanding and scribing will also be in the order as well.

 

And another thing: I don't know if it's just bad timing or bad luck but a lot of the times I go to look for a resin part it's either out of stock only to learn that it's not to be reissued again or sold at a ridiculous premium on eBay.  A shining reason why I want to try printing my own resin parts stems from an episode that happened a few years back: I wanted to buy a part for a Trumpeter 1/32 F-105D that has been sitting in my closet for quite some time.  What I was looking for was one of the old Cutting Edge sets and one had (at that time) just sold for around $50 on eBay after bidding ended.  I contacted the seller to see if he possibly had anymore in stock and if would sell me one direct.   Well get this: he told me he did but he wrote "I can sell it to you direct but it would have to be for $100!" 😲  Of course after reading that I wanted to tell him what to kiss and where to go but being the nice guy that I am I just kept my powder dry and didn't contact him anymore.  I eventually found what I was looking for at a model swap last year for $25 and since the filament for a 3D printer costs only around $10 to $15 (and since I already have CAD experience) for 100 bucks I can print a WHOLE LOT of F-105 parts or any other model part for pennies on the dollar!   Of course I'm aware there will probably be a lot of pitfalls, trials and errors to overcome but I'm eager to give it a shot.

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An FDM printer won't give you acceptable results printing detail parts for a model kit.  You would need either a DLP or SLA printer.  DLP printers start at around $500 but have small build envelopes (they use a smartphone screen as a mask); SLA printers start at around $1500 and are sized in between DLP and FDM printers.  For either a DLP or SLA printer, you're looking at $50 - 100/L for resin, plus other consumables (build films, resin tanks, LCDs and the like).

 

In order to print anything, you'll spend dozens of hours designing each individual part in CAD.  And in order to design a detailed part for a model kit, you'll spend hundreds of hours learning whatever CAD package you use.

 

I would strongly suggest doing some research to understand what different 3D printing technologies are out there, what each process actually entails and what kind of results you can plausibly expect with an inexpensive home-use printer.

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MoFo gave some excellent advice. Short story is, while 3D printing has been around for decades, and commercial aircraft are flying today with printed metal structural parts, home-use by individual modelers is still a specialist topic.

 

Having written that, for an excellent thread on something affordable today, see niart17's Bought a Printer thread.

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43 minutes ago, dnl42 said:

, home-use by individual modelers is still a specialist topic.

It's been big enough for long enough in railway modeling that there are forum categories like this;

(and recently a 2 part article in Garden Railways magazine)

Quote

 

127 topics
3,337 posts

Discussing techniques for using 3D printers, laser cutters, CNC machines, and other computer-driven modeling tools

 

 

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4 minutes ago, southwestforests said:

It's been big enough for long enough in railway modeling that there are forum categories like this;

(and recently a 2 part article in Garden Railways magazine)

 

Seems to support my point...

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It's not so much that it's a specialist topic (I mean, it is, and we're specifically talking niche use of a niche product...), it's that the machines themselves still haven't matured and are not user friendly.  Most people have the unfortunate impression that 3D printers are some Star Trek Replicator-like magical device, when the reality is that they aren't.  There are just a ton of variables that the user has to learn, understand and constantly tweak, and any small change in one area can mean you have to completely re-adjust all of your settings. 

 

For instance, with an FDM printer, if you try a new brand of filament, you will have to tweak temperature and flow settings; even using a different colour from the same brand, or a different production batch of the same colour may need you to adjust those settings.  And if you move to a different material - say from PLA to ABS or HIPS or PETG, you're basically re-learning to use your printer from scratch, and troubleshooting a whole new range of issues. 

 

With a DLP printer, you're doing pretty much the same thing with resin cure times - every brand, colour and bottle needs to be calibrated - how long is your base layer cure time, how long is your normal layer cure time.  And then re-calibrate for different layer thicknesses, because the numbers aren't the same for a 20 micron layer and a 50 micron layer.

 

 

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YUP! Exactly what MoFo says. There is a lot of tinkerng with settings and if that's not something that you find fun, or at least tolerable, then the tech might not be for you....YET. I think eventually we'll get to the simple download, open push print button and walk away process. But that's likely years if not perhaps decades away. I'm still learning the settings and what all affects what when it comes to getting successful prints. Take your time, do the research and weight out what you're willing to put up with in order to get into this area. It can be very rewarding and fun. But it is also pretty frustrating at times.

 

Bill

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