torchf4 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 9/10/2018 at 6:50 AM, Wild Weasel V said: Having said all that, if you built a slatted 1xx (no TISEO) or 2xx (with/without TISEO) coded jet, with or without an IFR probe, carrying a pair of AIM-7Es, an AIM-9D on the port inner rail, 5 M117s on the inner pylons (two on the TER under the AIM-9), a 600gal centre tank (or a MER with 5 more M117s), two 370gal wing tanks and an ALQ-71/ALQ-87/ALQ-101 pod in the right forward Sparrow well you'd be okay for some point in it's history from the YKW up to the Lebanon conflict.😉 Good luck with the rest of your research and build. I hope the above helps with whichever aircraft you decide to do. Please show us the final result! Jonathan Jonathan- Any idea what would be the loadout if Mavericks were carried? 6 AGMs with no AIM-9s or a mixed load? TIA Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wild Weasel V Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Hi Luigi, Thanks for the clarification about your reference to the RF-4EJ 👍. Its incorrect use is just one of those seemingly self-perpetuating erroneous 'Phantom Phacts' from a long held assumption (another example is the one about there being 12 'thick wing' RF-4Bs built instead of the correct amount of 10), that I find frustrating. The slatted RF-4E is indeed a rare beast there were only 16 made, 8 for each Air Force. The Turkish jets are serial numbers 77-0309 to 77-0316 and the Greek ones 77-0357, 77-0358 and 77-1761 to 77-1766. Incidentally the Turkish Phantom lost over Syria in 2012 was one of these (77-0314) making it probably the last Phantom to be lost in a combat zone. Here's an interesting picture file of the TuAF RF-4Es http://www.ole-nikolajsen.com/TURKISH FORCES 2004/RF-4E fotos.pdf and a photo of 77-0313 with slats in the two tone grey scheme: https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7918976. Probably most of the ones you saw visiting Deci' from both countries were the ex-Luftwaffe jets acquired in the mid 1990s! 16 hours ago, torchf4 said: Jonathan- Any idea what would be the loadout if Mavericks were carried? 6 AGMs with no AIM-9s or a mixed load? TIA Andy Hi Andy, There aren't many pictures of Kurnasses carrying Mavericks, but in the ones I've seen they are all loaded on the triple rail LAU-88. So if Mavericks were carried, there wouldn't be enough clearance for the AIM-9 as the upper LAU-88 rails will clash with the Sidewinder fins; so it would be one or the other on the pylon. It's possible they carried a mixed load with a TER and iron bombs on the opposite side but without pictures it's only a guess. If you want 6 Mavericks, I'd probably go with three tanks, two AIM-7s in the rear wells and an ECM pod (ALQ-101 or -119) in the forward left well. The Maverick arrived right at the end of the YKW and was first used by Squadron 69 who operated most of the SEA camouflage Nickel Grass F-4s delivered direct from the USAF. After the war Squadron 107 also carried them, but I don't know if any other unit was operational with Mavericks. Late on, after the Sparrow was retired in 1983, they might have also used the AIM-9 rail and adapter pylon for the forward right well but again I've not seen a photo of this combination. HTH, Jonathan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iaf-man Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Mavericks http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/f-4e_69-7226_kurnass_127/index.php?Page=1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 18 hours ago, Wild Weasel V said: Late on, after the Sparrow was retired in 1983, they might have also used the AIM-9 rail and adapter pylon for the forward right well but again I've not seen a photo of this combination. HTH, Jonathan They retired the AIM-7 in 1983? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 hours ago, 11bee said: They retired the AIM-7 in 1983? For the F-4 Kurnass. F-15 Baz still use Sparrow, or if they stopped, it’s only very recently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Williams said: For the F-4 Kurnass. F-15 Baz still use Sparrow, or if they stopped, it’s only very recently. That’s interesting. Wonder why the would have pulled the Sparrow? Did the replace the original radar with one that wasn’t compatible? Seems like having a long range AAM would be beneficial. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 On 3/9/2019 at 4:53 AM, Wild Weasel V said: Hi Andy, There aren't many pictures of Kurnasses carrying Mavericks, but in the ones I've seen they are all loaded on the triple rail LAU-88. So if Mavericks were carried, there wouldn't be enough clearance for the AIM-9 as the upper LAU-88 rails will clash with the Sidewinder fins; so it would be one or the other on the pylon. It's possible they carried a mixed load with a TER and iron bombs on the opposite side but without pictures it's only a guess. If you want 6 Mavericks, I'd probably go with three tanks, two AIM-7s in the rear wells and an ECM pod (ALQ-101 or -119) in the forward left well. The Maverick arrived right at the end of the YKW and was first used by Squadron 69 who operated most of the SEA camouflage Nickel Grass F-4s delivered direct from the USAF. After the war Squadron 107 also carried them, but I don't know if any other unit was operational with Mavericks. Late on, after the Sparrow was retired in 1983, they might have also used the AIM-9 rail and adapter pylon for the forward right well but again I've not seen a photo of this combination. HTH, Jonathan Cool thks Jonathan! Would a hard wing Karpada have the short or long gun muzzle? Planning to do a Karpada with Mavs using my 1/32 Tamiya f-4e. Hard wing version would save some money in not having to buy a slat wing set. Thks again Jonathan! Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 hours ago, 11bee said: That’s interesting. Wonder why the would have pulled the Sparrow? Did the replace the original radar with one that wasn’t compatible? Seems like having a long range AAM would be beneficial. By 1983, the F-4 had been replaced in the A-A role by the F-15 and F-16, and were only used as precision bombers carrying GBUs, Walleye, Popeye, etc. For self defense, they might carry an IR missile like AIM-9 or Python 3, usually on an adapter in a front Sparrow well since the wing mounted A-G weapons were normally large enough to prevent carrying A-A missiles on the inboard pylons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 One more question regarding F-4E slatted wing. One of the IAF Phantoms was modified with a fixed slat on the outer portion of the inner wing, I assume to test the flight characteristics at low speed/high AOA, that was the Phantom that carried the Sharkmouth. Was this before the introduction of the standard slatted wing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, hemspilot said: One more question regarding F-4E slatted wing. One of the IAF Phantoms was modified with a fixed slat on the outer portion of the inner wing, I assume to test the flight characteristics at low speed/high AOA, that was the Phantom that carried the Sharkmouth. Was this before the introduction of the standard slatted wing? Before. It was to test the design of the slatted wing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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