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20 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

 

the VF-2 jet in question was a new-build F-14D and would not have had that panel blanked off. F-14Ds had the TARPS wiring re-routed so that the sparrow well would not have to be blocked. If it were an A model rebuild, that might be different.

 

I would be very interested to see the research Tamiya did that led them to make that decision... I learned long ago to "never say never" when it comes to what one can find on a Tomcat, because there always seems to be an exception to the rule, but this indeed would be a first.

The research is very extensive with the help of Grumman and the US Navy.  

 

I know I might be called out on this but isn’t 163894 a remanufactured F-14A?

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2 hours ago, gtypecanare said:

The research is very extensive with the help of Grumman and the US Navy.  

 

I know I might be called out on this but isn’t 163894 a remanufactured F-14A?

No, 163 prefixes were all new-builds.

 

As I said, I know better than to say for certain, only that it seems VERY unlikely.

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The following production block numbers include the
indicated aircraft serial numbers (BuNo). Selected aircraft in
blocks 85 and 110 have been updated to create the F−14D/
block 170 configuration.


Block No. Serial No. (BuNo)
Block 160 : 163412 − 163418
Block 165 : 163893 − 163904
Block 170 : 164341 − 164351 and 164599 − 164604
Block 85 : 159592, 159595, 159600, 159603, 159610, 159613, 159618, 159619, 159628 − 159630
Block 110 : 161159, 161163, 161166.

 

F-14D's with a BUNO that starts with 159 and 161 were re-manufactured F-14A's (When I was in VF-143 I remember reading the 2-1 manual and could swear it said there was 19 re-popped A's but the NATOPS I have only lists 14).

 

To my knowledge, all F-14D's had all four belly Sparrow stations.

 

*On the F-14A/B, the TARPS blank off panels were not flush with the belly panels, they stuck out about an 1/8th of an inch. The best thing to do to represent the TARPS panels is to use thin plastic card and cover station 5 missile trough panels, the TARPS panels had the same panel lines as the missile trough panels. They also had large head fasteners that protruded out from the panel.

 

* This is how every TARPS bird I worked on was, I was in three TARPS squadrons (VF-101, 103, 143) and TARPS planes were rotated around so I worked on quite a few, the panel arraignment was the same.

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4 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

* This is how every TARPS bird I worked on was, I was in three TARPS squadrons (VF-101, 103, 143)....

 

Were you with 103 when they were the Sluggers? I know I asked this before but I am very interested in the Sluggers circa '90-'91 on Saratoga. If you have any pics from their port visit to Antalya then Eskisehir, can you PM me? Also, do you know precisely when that visit was? TIA.

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39 minutes ago, Janissary said:

 

Were you with 103 when they were the Sluggers? I know I asked this before but I am very interested in the Sluggers circa '90-'91 on Saratoga. If you have any pics from their port visit to Antalya then Eskisehir, can you PM me? Also, do you know precisely when that visit was? TIA.

Yes, I was in VF-103 on that cruise but sorry, I don't have any personal pics from Antalya (didn't go to Eskisehir).

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@GW8345 if you were building the VF-143 CAG jet in OEF circa 2002 what kind of loadout would you put on it? I was thinking  GBU-38 and GBU-12 in forward pallets, no rear pallets, and a single AIM-9M on the port glove with an AIM-7 adapter and a LANTIRN pod on the starboard glove. Would that be an authorized load and historically accurate?

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Just now, picknpluck said:

@GW8345 if you were building the VF-143 CAG jet in OEF circa 2002 what kind of loadout would you put on it? I was thinking  GBU-38 and GBU-12 in forward pallets, no rear pallets, and a single AIM-9M on the port glove with an AIM-7 adapter and a LANTIRN pod on the starboard glove. Would that be an authorized load and historically accurate?

Your load-out is good except VF-143 never got the GBU-38 (only VF-101 (for testing) and VF-31 & 213 on their last cruise had GBU-38's) so I would recommend two GBU-12's on the forward pallets. That was their normal load-out from what my friends in the squadron told me.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Yes, I was in VF-103 on that cruise but sorry, I don't have any personal pics from Antalya (didn't go to Eskisehir).

 

Ok, thank you. Do you remember when the Sluggers transitioned from the A to the B? Was it in the Fall of 90 or later? Basically trying to figure out if they had the A or the B by then. Also, was the transition all at once, or were there a mix of 103 A and Bs on Saratoga?

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37 minutes ago, Janissary said:

 

Ok, thank you. Do you remember when the Sluggers transitioned from the A to the B? Was it in the Fall of 90 or later? Basically trying to figure out if they had the A or the B by then. Also, was the transition all at once, or were there a mix of 103 A and Bs on Saratoga?

 

I can't give you the exact date of the transition (I have the command history file, but it's stored on an external drive I can't get to at the moment), but they transitioned before they deployed to the gulf. Also, squadrons (barring the RAGs, who were responsible for training on multiple types) transition their jets all at once. VF-101 took all the sluggers F-14As on strength and issued them 12 F-14A Plus airframes over about a week to two week period as I recall. There may have been a mix for a few days on the ramp at Oceana, but by the time they went to the 'Sara, they would have all been F-14A+/Bs

 

Edited by Skull Leader
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According to the command history file, VF-103 made their transition in January of 1989 and were fully checked out by that February, immediately followed by a whirlwind det to Key West. The rest of the year was spent flying in FFARP, Operation Eagle Thrust, and Top Gun exercises, spending some time on 'Sara's shakedown cruise that August.

 

 

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7 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Your load-out is good except VF-143 never got the GBU-38 (only VF-101 (for testing) and VF-31 & 213 on their last cruise had GBU-38's) so I would recommend two GBU-12's on the forward pallets. That was their normal load-out from what my friends in the squadron told me.

 

 

Thanks as always, Gerry!

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12 hours ago, Janissary said:

 

Ok, thank you. Do you remember when the Sluggers transitioned from the A to the B? Was it in the Fall of 90 or later? Basically trying to figure out if they had the A or the B by then. Also, was the transition all at once, or were there a mix of 103 A and Bs on Saratoga?

Jeremy is spot on, VF-103 transitioned to F-14A+ (now called F-14B*) in the winter of 88/89 and was cleared for F-14A+ operations in Feb 89. I was in VF-101 at the time and remember transferring a butt load of aircraft to VF-74, VF-103, VF-142 and VF-143.

 

We had 10 F-14A+ for the 90/91 Red Sea Cruise, lost one on Jan 21 1991 and got a replacement from VF-101 a few weeks latter. The replacement never flew combat operations, in fact, it stayed in the hanger until it was time to fly off.

 

*On 1 May 1991, the USN officially changed the designation of the F-14A+ to the F-14B due the "+" causing issues when it was entered in computers for maintenance/data purposes. It took a few weeks for all the "F-14A+" to get changed "F-14B" on the aircraft, we did it when it came in for a 56 Day Special Inspection, by mid June they were all changed over.

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50 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

*On 1 May 1991, the USN officially changed the designation of the F-14A+ to the F-14B due the "+" causing issues when it was entered in computers for maintenance/data purposes. It took a few weeks for all the "F-14A+" to get changed "F-14B" on the aircraft, we did it when it came in for a 56 Day Special Inspection, by mid June they were all changed over.

 

That's the designation background? I always wondered why he heck they started off with A+, seemed like it would cause more problem than naught. Now I know. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.

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1 hour ago, Whiskey said:

 

That's the designation background? I always wondered why he heck they started off with A+, seemed like it would cause more problem than naught. Now I know. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.

The reason why the Bravo's were originally called A+ was because the only difference between the A+ and an A was the engine and the USN considered it just a modified A. It also has to deal with budget (money) and congress, its easier to get money for an "upgrade" than a "modification" an aircraft, case in point, the Super Hornet.

 

Note: there was modifications to the gun system that first appeared on the A+ but there were technical directives in the works to get all A's modified. The modifications just happened to be incorporated to the A+ at the factory* when they were getting mod'ed where as the A's got mod'ed at the squadron level.

 

Getting a modification approved to incorporated at the squadron level takes longer to get route/get approved then it does to get a factory modification approved due to the increased engineering/administration levels it has to be routed through. The gun mod's were approved as "Engineering Changes (EC)" first,  EC's are only incorporated at the factory only, the fleet does not recognize EC's. In order for an aircraft to be modified while it is in the fleet (i.e., not at the factory) there has to be a formal "Technical Directive (TD)", these can be incorporated at either the depot (re-work level), intermediate (FRC) or organization (squadron) level, just depends on the complexity of the modifications.

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Jeremy, Gerry, thank you both for the detailed info on the Sluggers' A to B transition. Very helpful. I saw them in my hometown when I was 13. My dad and I went to the airforce base and watched them up-close, with a pair of powerful binoculars, from right outside the runway. I distinctly remember the arrows on the Tomcats' fins. I also remember seeing F-18s and A-6s. Anyway, I want to build a Slugger just for that memory of mine. An A-6 is also in my plans just for that. Just needed to know if the Tomcats were As or Bs, and now I know!

 

thank you.

Burak

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The A+/B also swapped out the ARC-159 radios for the ARC-182's. Side story, CVW-1 was the test CAG for the ARC-182s and as such the Tomcats and E-2Cs were field modified to equip these radios and the KY-58 cypto. This was in the mid-80s, all our birds had 182s when I checked int VF-33 in early 85. We had a mix of jets and every block had separate wiring diagrams, really just blueprints. Troubleshooting comm wiring gripes sucked. Fortunately the 182 itself was a good radio.

 

-CJ

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