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Enamels v Acrylics!


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2 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

I use Mr Color Leveling thinner, which is a mild lacquer thinner with a retarding agent added, or Tamiya Lacquer thinner for Tamiya acrylics. Airbrushes beautifully. I use the hardware store variety cheap lacquer thinner for cleaning afterwards. The cheap stuff is too hot for spraying Tamiya paints. Could craze the plastic if your not careful, though in a pinch, it would probably work if your careful. I just wouldn't take the chance and Leveling thinner works SO well.

Yeah thats pretty much what I figured too.
I did wonder because its so cheap, its like half price!

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40 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Yeah thats pretty much what I figured too.
I did wonder because its so cheap, its like half price!

 

If you use Tamiya paints and haven't tried thinning with Leveling thinner you should give it a try. It really opened up the whole Tamiya line for me. I always had problems spraying acrylic (water based) paints, and really preferred lacquers or enamels. Using leveling thinner it sprayed beautifully. No tip dry, smooth even coat. I was just amazed. As I understand it, Tamiya paints (in the jars) is not water based, but an alcohol based lacquer, which is why it can be used with lacquer thinner. Any explanation beyond that will have to be by someone who understands the chemistry of it all.

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9 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Ive used Mr Color Leveling thinner and X-20A with them.

I do like them but they dont do all the colours so I also use Vallejo model air too.

 

I was just wondering about the cellulose thinners because it was £3.99 for 1L of it

 

Yea, Mr Color Leveling Thinner is more expensive, but well worth it. I get in the big 400ml bottles and always keep two or three of those on hand. The 400ml bottles last quite a while if you don't use it for cleaning. Just use the cheap stuff for cleaning. Saves a lot of money. Seems Mr Color stuff is more easy to find these days, but it used to be rare and I would snatch up bottles of thinner whenever they were in stock. I usually get it at Sprue Brothers.

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3 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

X-20A is £5.99 for 250m, Leveling thinner is £11.00 for 400ml. In my mind thats about equal price...

Which is why I was interested in cellulose thinners at £3.99 for 1000ml

 

It's like comparing cooking oil and automobile oil.

£3.99 thinner is far too hot for hobby paints, it will kill them and worse, it will kill your airbrush o-rings.

 

It will "work", I know plenty of people too greedy to buy some decent thinner for their paints.

Thing is the paints will not behave the same, look the same and last the same. One day, they will see some kits properly painted and ask themselves why the result is so different.

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I've used Mr Color Leveling Thinner successfully with Humbrol and Colourcoats enamels (my tins are from WEM).


Seriously, use Mr Color Leveling Thinner for thinning and leave that big cheap can for cleaning your airbrush.

I haven't yet had to replace the o-rings in an airbrush. I have had to lubricate them, which I do as a matter of course in a full breakdown cleaning session a few times a year.

My only airbrush "consumables" have been needles and nozzles :whistle:

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2 hours ago, dnl42 said:

I've used Mr Color Leveling Thinner successfully with Humbrol and Colourcoats enamels (my tins are from WEM).


Seriously, use Mr Color Leveling Thinner for thinning and leave that big cheap can for cleaning your airbrush.

I haven't yet had to replace the o-rings in an airbrush. I have had to lubricate them, which I do as a matter of course in a full breakdown cleaning session a few times a year.

My only airbrush "consumables" have been needles and nozzles :whistle:

 

Ditto on cleaning here. Been using full strength cheap lacquer thinner to clean my airbrushes for years with no problems. As far as enamels, I either use Testors paint thinner for the remaining Model Masters paints I have or regular "white spirits" type thinner for Humbrol and Colourcoats (which is an excellent enamel paint if I don't say myself).

Also lubricate my airbrush during every break-down cleaning. Lastly, I haven't bent or damaged a needle in almost a year (knock on wood). :thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, dnl42 said:

I've used Mr Color Leveling Thinner successfully with Humbrol and Colourcoats enamels (my tins are from WEM).


Seriously, use Mr Color Leveling Thinner for thinning and leave that big cheap can for cleaning your airbrush.

I haven't yet had to replace the o-rings in an airbrush. I have had to lubricate them, which I do as a matter of course in a full breakdown cleaning session a few times a year.

My only airbrush "consumables" have been needles and nozzles :whistle:

 

3 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

Ditto on cleaning here. Been using full strength cheap lacquer thinner to clean my airbrushes for years with no problems. As far as enamels, I either use Testors paint thinner for the remaining Model Masters paints I have or regular "white spirits" type thinner for Humbrol and Colourcoats (which is an excellent enamel paint if I don't say myself).

Also lubricate my airbrush during every break-down cleaning. Lastly, I haven't bent or damaged a needle in almost a year (knock on wood). :thumbsup:

Sounds like a plan.

I must confess to have been using leveling thinner to thin and clean for quite a while now. its quite effective at both.

Im trying to move away from enamels and lacquers (MRP is tempting though, its recently bought a load to try out).

 

Its not something Ive thought about before, like I said its only because I saw it in Lidl that I thought about it.

 

All the thinners we use will break down the rubber seals eventually, that it hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it will never happen.

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6 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

All the thinners we use will break down the rubber seals eventually, that it hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it will never happen.

 

Rubber seals, yes, probably true. But most of the higher quality airbrushes use PTFE (Teflon) seals, which are resistant to harsh chemicals like lacquer thinner. All the airbrushes I regularly use have PTFE seals and I have never had one fail due to lacquer thinner. I have replaced seals that have become worn due to repeated sealing and unsealing of a part (like the paint cups on the H&S Infinity series). Every few years I replace all the seals on my Infinity just as a matter of maintaining peak performance. Its relatively inexpensive to get the seals and relatively easy to do if you have the correct tool for the needle seal inside the airbrush body (can be done without, but is a breeze with the tool which cost about $10).

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 Hello Mstor  . I have never seen the packing replacement screwdriver anywhere  .

 

 I'm working with a couple of Iwata airbrushes and I would like to find that tool. Would you share ?

 

 Regards, Christian

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4 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

Rubber seals, yes, probably true. But most of the higher quality airbrushes use PTFE (Teflon) seals, which are resistant to harsh chemicals like lacquer thinner. All the airbrushes I regularly use have PTFE seals and I have never had one fail due to lacquer thinner. I have replaced seals that have become worn due to repeated sealing and unsealing of a part (like the paint cups on the H&S Infinity series). Every few years I replace all the seals on my Infinity just as a matter of maintaining peak performance. Its relatively inexpensive to get the seals and relatively easy to do if you have the correct tool for the needle seal inside the airbrush body (can be done without, but is a breeze with the tool which cost about $10).

My CM-C+ has rubber seals.
In the normal course of use none should ever come into contact with paint/thinners but even the best of them have rubber seals.

PTFE has a high resistance to some of the chemicals in Cellulose thinners (like acetone), it is a near perfect material to use.

Im not sure any of the main stream manufacturers use anything other than PTFE for needle seals these days. It would have to be the cheapest of the cheap airbrush to use rubber there.

None of which I have and use.

2 hours ago, Chris L said:

 

 Hello Mstor  . I have never seen the packing replacement screwdriver anywhere  .

 

 I'm working with a couple of Iwata airbrushes and I would like to find that tool. Would you share ?

 

 Regards, Christian

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Airbrush-Tools-p1.html

Or there is a cleaning kit you can buy too.

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8 hours ago, Chris L said:

 

 Hello Mstor  . I have never seen the packing replacement screwdriver anywhere  .

 

 I'm working with a couple of Iwata airbrushes and I would like to find that tool. Would you share ?

 

 Regards, Christian

 

The inexpensive tool I was talking about is for Harder & Steenbeck airbrushes. I don't know if it would work with Iwata aibrushes. I looks like the only way to get the equivalent tool for Iwata airbrushes is to buy the Iwata Airbrush Maintenance Kit. It is shown listed in the link posted above by ElectroSoldier. Here is a direct link to the kit on that site:

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Iwata-Airbrush-Maintenance-Kit-IWCL-500.html#SID=66

The tool in question is shown in the third picture listed. Unfortunately, it appears that these tool kits are VERY expensive. Every site I looked on had them priced around $107.00 USD. I couldn't find anyone selling just the needle packing screwdriver alone. Doesn't mean that someone doesn't or someone might make one that works with Iwata brushes, but I could find any.

Its a shame that the price for those tools is so high. Like I said, the equivalent H&S tool sells for under $10.00 USD.

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1 hour ago, Mstor said:

 

The inexpensive tool I was talking about is for Harder & Steenbeck airbrushes. I don't know if it would work with Iwata aibrushes. I looks like the only way to get the equivalent tool for Iwata airbrushes is to buy the Iwata Airbrush Maintenance Kit. It is shown listed in the link posted above by ElectroSoldier. Here is a direct link to the kit on that site:

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Iwata-Airbrush-Maintenance-Kit-IWCL-500.html#SID=66

The tool in question is shown in the third picture listed. Unfortunately, it appears that these tool kits are VERY expensive. Every site I looked on had them priced around $107.00 USD. I couldn't find anyone selling just the needle packing screwdriver alone. Doesn't mean that someone doesn't or someone might make one that works with Iwata brushes, but I could find any.

Its a shame that the price for those tools is so high. Like I said, the equivalent H&S tool sells for under $10.00 USD.

Dang! I don't recall paying anything near that much for that Iwata kit! :woot.gif: 

 

I bought it at either Coast Airbrush in Santa Ana, CA or Art Supply Warehouse in Westminster, CA. FWIW, Coast Airbrush is currently offering it for $85, which still strikes me as way more than I paid for it.  :dontknow:

 

Hm, some of the tools in the maintenance kit are available individually, but not those.

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Blick art supplies has it for $75.15 with free shipping, plus, right now there is a 15% off discount on orders of $65 or more. You just use the code CEZQ in the discount code field when viewing your cart. Brings the price to $63.88 before taxes (they charge taxes on most if not all states these days).

 

https://www.dickblick.com/products/iwata-professional-airbrush-maintenance-tool-set/

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 Thank you very much  for the information . I had seen that tool kit ages ago but that's the only way I am aware of  getting the screwdriver. Seems like somewhat of a racket .

 I wonder what is available from Japan since the Procon airbrushes supposedly use parts interchangeable with Iwata .

 

 Some searching today brought this up . https://spraygunner.com/airbrush-maintenance-tools/

 

 I might have answered my own question  even though it is not the brand name we had hoped for.

 

 Thanks for your insight . Christian

 

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33 minutes ago, Chris L said:

 

 Thank you very much  for the information . I had seen that tool kit ages ago but that's the only way I am aware of  getting the screwdriver. Seems like somewhat of a racket .

 I wonder what is available from Japan since the Procon airbrushes supposedly use parts interchangeable with Iwata .

 

 Some searching today brought this up . https://spraygunner.com/airbrush-maintenance-tools/

 

 I might have answered my own question  even though it is not the brand name we had hoped for.

 

 Thanks for your insight . Christian

 

Procon are compatibles, but if you imagine Iwata without any QC then that is what Procon feels like.

It was make in the same factory with the same tools by the same people... But it was made on a Friday.

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 I would say you totally missed my logic on the packing replacement tool .

 

 If the tolerances are that close between Iwata and Procon airbrushes , then the tool  will likely work fine.

 

 I would rather buy a tool for  $ 10 that does not work than a $ 75 tool and find out that I could have saved  $ 65 for the same purpose .

 

By the way , the Friday logic does not work either . The reality is more like Monday or Saturday  and the difference is more likely on the spec. requirement than the day manufactured .

 Trust me, I machine roller bearing for years . The same parts finished at different specs change the price greatly and yet the bearing could be interchanged.

 

 Regards, Christian 

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8 hours ago, Chris L said:

 

 Thank you very much  for the information . I had seen that tool kit ages ago but that's the only way I am aware of  getting the screwdriver. Seems like somewhat of a racket .

 I wonder what is available from Japan since the Procon airbrushes supposedly use parts interchangeable with Iwata .

 

 Some searching today brought this up . https://spraygunner.com/airbrush-maintenance-tools/

 

 I might have answered my own question  even though it is not the brand name we had hoped for.

 

 Thanks for your insight . Christian

 

 

Good find! Looks like it should do the trick. I may get it myself as I do not have an air valve tool.

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On 2/8/2020 at 10:57 AM, Chris L said:

 

 Hello Mstor  . I have never seen the packing replacement screwdriver anywhere  .

 

 I'm working with a couple of Iwata airbrushes and I would like to find that tool. Would you share ?

 

 Regards, Christian

 

Hello Christian, I don’t know if an Iwata tool will work on a Harder and Steenbeck airbrush, and I was not able to find the Harder and Steenbeck maintenance kit which includes the screwdriver you mention. But I found the H&S maintenance kit at a shop in Germany (PK-PRO), and I ordered it.  The set isn’t cheap (about $44 including shipping) but I know I’ll feel better having those tools available for the inevitable day when I’ll have to dismantle my H&S airbrushes for cleaning and/or maintenance.  

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 If you look up the link I posted for the packing tool , this is what  it claims :

 

 

Tools for airbrush assembly/disassembly maintenance 

Includes needle seal screw driver and air valve tool. 

Screwdriver will fit: GSI Creos, Iwata, Master airbrush, H&S, Sparmax, Tamiya and other brand with flat screwdriver needle seal screw. 

Air valve tool fits: GSI Creos, Iwata, Master Airbrush, Sparmax, Tamiya  and other brands with similar air valve nut type. 

by NO-NAME Brand 

 

Regards, Christian

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15 hours ago, Curt B said:

 

Hello Christian, I don’t know if an Iwata tool will work on a Harder and Steenbeck airbrush, and I was not able to find the Harder and Steenbeck maintenance kit which includes the screwdriver you mention. But I found the H&S maintenance kit at a shop in Germany (PK-PRO), and I ordered it.  The set isn’t cheap (about $44 including shipping) but I know I’ll feel better having those tools available for the inevitable day when I’ll have to dismantle my H&S airbrushes for cleaning and/or maintenance.  

 

Sounds like Christian has Iwata airbrushes, so the "No Name" tool he found should work just fine. If anyone is looking for just the H&S tool, it is available from Midwest Airbrush Supply for $8.27 (before shipping of course).

https://www.midwestairbrush.com/screwdriver.html

 

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