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italycrew

HH-53 Super Jolly green Giant

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Hello Gents,

Someone of you can helps me?

 what is the exact color of the Super Jolly Green Giant  pilots cabin in the' 70s, instrument panel, floor, etc etc  

Are there any photos? I could not find them.....

Thanks in advance

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Standard cockpit finish for US aircraft in that time period was Dark Gull Gray, I can't remember the FS number right now (36231?), so I'd go with that unless you get some evidence to the contrary.

 

Edited by DonSS3

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Hello DonSS3 !! Thank you very much. The doubt remains about the pilots cabin floor....I saw some photos, it looks black...

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Late in life, maybe they went with black due to NVG’s?    Seem to recall that very late in the Vietnam War a few sets of NVG’s were introduced.   

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The flooring was black non-skid. Walls were grey, as Don said. 

Even later on the Pavelow, the walls were grey with black non-skid over aluminum.

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Not all of the cockpit floor was non-skid black. These screen grabs are from the 20 August 1972 rescue of Captain Gerald Lawrence when he was later assigned to his second tour in Vietnam to pilot QU-22 reconnaissance aircraft and was shot down over the Ho Chi Minh Trail in August of 1972 .  Major Gerald J. "Jerry" Lawrence passed away 28 July 2012 at 69. RIP hero.

 

As DonS33 attempted to point out Vietnam cockpit colors were fairly standardized.

 

Cockpit floor, showing the mix of FS dark gull gray and black non skid. Note the instrument panel is Dark Gull Gray with black trim gauges(standard Vietnam). Seat cushions were red but were also sometimes Sage Green. Seats were gull gray frames. Armor plate with gull gray with black trim. The Non-Skid area of the pilots seats was in a H pattern for the feet.

 

HH-53+cockpit.jpg

 

HH-53+floor.jpg

 

Cyclic and Collective were flat black. Note the foot pedals were gull gray with flat black trim. Center console with gull gray trim on pilots side with black instruments. The side panels were flat black. Of note, the co-pilots seat is red cushion while the pilots seat is faded sage green.

 

HH-53+pilots+controls.jpg

 

Throttle control was black with gull gray knobs

overhead+engine+throttle.jpg

 

Good shot of the center console and Instrument Panel (IP)

Screenshot_20181011-224647.jpg

 

Co-Pilot showing interior trim colors. Dark Gull Gray with flat black trim.

Screenshot_20181011-224445.jpg

 

Edited by snake36bravo

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Snake36B, those are some great pics, you wouldn't happen to have a link to the video itself would you?

 

Those Jolly Green guys had some serious balls, they were true heros.   I'd love to see a new 48th or even 35th scale HH-53 Jolly.  

 

Seem to remember reading that late in the war, a Jolly crew did the first rescue at night, using some very early night vision equip.  Don't recall if it was a turreted FLIR or early goggles.    If anyone has details or pics, I'd love to see them. 

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I really want a decent HH-3E... 

 

Yes, those guys are great and I was privileged to serve with them.

 

Vern

56th ARS (now RSQ) Weapons Shop

'90 - '92

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13 hours ago, admiralcag said:

I really want a decent HH-3E... 

 

 

Vern,  years ago one of the guys on this forum (Cobra Historian I believe, long since stopped posting) started a conversion of the Hasegawa 1/48 SH-3H into an HH-3E.   Should be able to find it using the search function.   IIR, he got pretty far along before he stopped providing updates.   If you absolutely, positively have to have one, this is might help....

 

BTW, I found the entire film that was referenced above.   Worth checking out.

 

http://stock.periscopefilm.com/75522-air-force-now-sandys-helicopter-rescue-in-vietnam-all-for-one/

 

 

 

 

Edited by 11bee

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Hello gents !!! First of all, sorry if I answer late but I've been busy with work...

Anyway, Thank you VERY MUCH to snake36bravo  about the pics, very interesting.

About HH-53 and HH-3, I hope someday someone  pics up our cry of request....

I'm assembling an Airfix HH-53, old but the best. The subsequent kits were not better.....

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For 11bee, 

the guy who was converting a SH.-3 to HH-3 is called Maurizio. He's a friend of mine, he was doing a great job. Tuesday I'll meet him and ask him  if starts off with job

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2 hours ago, 11bee said:

Vern,  years ago one of the guys on this forum (Cobra Historian I believe, long since stopped posting) started a conversion of the Hasegawa 1/48 SH-3H into an HH-3E.   Should be able to find it using the search function.   IIR, he got pretty far along before he stopped providing updates.   If you absolutely, positively have to have one, this is might help....

 

I was following that thread. I hope it gets revived. 

 

Working Rescue weapons in Iceland was THE BEST JOB I've ever had.

 

Vern

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3 minutes ago, admiralcag said:

 

I was following that thread. I hope it gets revived. 

 

Working Rescue weapons in Iceland was THE BEST JOB I've ever had.

 

Vern

I deployed to Iceland in the early 90's (Northern Viking?).   IIRC, we got a flight out to the boonies in an AF -53.    Had an ex-Ranger in my unit, was terrified, said not to get on the helo, they always crash.   I gathered he'd had a bad experience (or two) from his Ranger days flying in AF MH-53's.    

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11Bee, I did some digging. I was certain they utilized some type of NVG capability on the Son Tay Raid. Negative.

 

It wasn't until Dec 1972!! that they utilized something called LNRS - Limited Night Rescue System and that just consisted of Doppler radar and TF/TA Terrain Following Terrain Avoidance Radar. TACAN was added as well for navigation. Meanwhile the US Army had already been successfully fielding Starlight scopes, IR Illuminators(searchlights with both Infra-red and white light capabilities), Direct View devices, FLIR, Low Light Television (LLTV) and monitors which were early MFD- Multi-functional displays since the mid 60s up. You know, basically everything that went into the AH-64 and became standard in Army Aviation. Somehow the Air Force uppers couldn't manage to get their act together with the early Pave Hawk and Pave Imp programs. Of the 2 built for this with all the bells and whistles I mentioned, 1 was destroyed and the other cancelled. Pave Low came later BUT like you said it's a testament to the bowling balls on these men who flew this mission profile night or day anyway.

 

Meanwhile here's a few more period Vietnam images showing the dark gull gray flat black trimming. Note the rear bulkhead is dark gull gray

Screenshot_20181014-102722.jpg

 

Screenshot_20181014-100717.jpg

 

Screenshot_20181014-100826.jpg

 

Screenshot_20181014-100850.jpg

 

Rotors forever!

Edited by snake36bravo
Tail boom separation in flight

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31 minutes ago, snake36bravo said:

11Bee, I did some digging. I was certain they utilized some type of NVG capability on the Son Tay Raid. Negative.

 

It wasn't until Dec 1972!! that they utilized something called LNRS - Limited Night Rescue System and that just consisted of Doppler radar and TF/TA Terrain Following Terrain Avoidance Radar.

 

Strange, I could have sworn the same thing.   Thought the early googles they used were called SU-50 or something similar.

 

Anyhoo... if you have any pics of Jollys in that config, I hope you'll share.  Got a soft-spot for special ops helos and these might be amongst the first of the breed.

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I think these pictures were taken from the Air Force Now 41 film.   I first watched the film when I was in AFROTC at Fresno State.  It was what got me wanting to go into H-53’s.   If you noticed, the pictures of the co-pilot shows him with a parachute.   In the early days, the pilot’s seat back cushion could be removed and a parachute put there.  It was not very comfortable but was required when doing air refueling.   When I was going through initial HH-53 transition, I asked my instructor how I was supposed to jump out the window, avoiding the main rotor blades.  He looked at me and said “Just fly the helicopter Lt.”.  I took that to mean I was not going to bail out of the H-53 cockpit.  The rules changed later on and a parachute was no longer required.   The pilot seats in the Pave Low did not have a seat cushion that could be removed.   

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The Night Recovery System HH-53’s did not have the TF radar.  That came later with the Pave Low.   What they had was a low light level TV system.  Not a FLIR.    This along with the Doppler radar and Hover Coupler allowed an approach to a hover.   The first HH-53 I flew during my transition was an NRS modified helicopter.   The instrument panel was very different from the normal panel, which was confusing for a new 2Lt trying to learn to fly the helicopter.  

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4 hours ago, hawg53 said:

The Night Recovery System HH-53’s did not have the TF radar.  That came later with the Pave Low.   What they had was a low light level TV system.  Not a FLIR.    This along with the Doppler radar and Hover Coupler allowed an approach to a hover.   The first HH-53 I flew during my transition was an NRS modified helicopter.   The instrument panel was very different from the normal panel, which was confusing for a new 2Lt trying to learn to fly the helicopter.  

Hawg, I probably sound like a broken record but do you have an pics of a Vietnam era -53 with the Night Recovery System?   On a related note,  dd they do any operational rescues during the war?

 

 

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11Bee, go to a website called the Pave Cave.  It is a site dedicated to the Pave Low helicopter and its crews.   Under the photos page, there is a section called pre Pave.   On the second page of this section, there are a couple of NRS HH-53Cs.   You can tell by the small squareish object on the left side of the nose.  That is the low light level TV turret.   When in use, it only moved up and down.  I can not find any cockpit pictures.   Hope this is helpful.  

 

Bob

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