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Early B-52G/H radome


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For very long time I have just curios that are they the same radome between pre-EVS B-52G/H and post-EVS birds? The shape looks more blunt on the very early G/H to my eyes. 

 

A photo from wikipedia.

B-52G_landing_at_Andersen_AFB_Dec_1972.J

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Nothing I've read says anything about the nose changing from the early G to late G. When the phase VI ECM upgrade and EVS modes were made, it only mentions the 40 inch tail extension that was added to accommodate additional ECM gear.

I didn't know about the early G's lack of the 40 inch plug! Good to know.

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Yes, the original G/H radome was different from preceding C/D/E/F radomes in that it was a one piece affair that hinged upward from just below the cockpit window frames.  The C/D/E/F had two separate radomes; one that covered the main radar immediately below the cockpit and one that covered the two smaller bomb/nav radars in the lower nose.  The original G/H radome had a fairly smooth vertical contour.  When the EVS's and ECM blisters were added, they created a new radome with a lateral "pinch" about half-way down each side, ostensibly for aerodynamic purposes.  Compare photos of G/Hs from up to 1974 to photos after 1975-79 when the EVS mods were done; you will notice a marked difference.  EVS mods came first, followed five-ten years later by the ECM blisters. [Note: I stand corrected.  Electerosoldier is correct.  The G/H one-piece radome was the same prior to and after the EVS & ECM mods. My apologies for confusing the subject.]  HTH, R/ Dutch 

Edited by Dutch
correct mistake.
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39 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

Did the early G's fly in Vietnam, or was it all D's?

 

Yes, the G models flew in Vietnam, and several were lost in combat during Linebacker II.

 

Regards,

Murph

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12 hours ago, Murph said:

 

Yes, the G models flew in Vietnam, and several were lost in combat during Linebacker II.

 

Regards,

Murph

 

That's right.  Apparently their ECM suite wasn't as capable as the "D" model so they were more vulnerable.

 

-Derek  

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2 hours ago, viking73 said:

 

That's right.  Apparently their ECM suite wasn't as capable as the "D" model so they were more vulnerable.

 

-Derek  

The G's had a pretty rough go of it.  Less capable ECM coupled with horrible SAC tactics resulted in some tough losses.   To the point that there were several instances of near mutiny among some of the crews on Anderson AFB. 

 

The G's were completely unsuited for those missions.  The ECM issue was only one thing.  The other issues were that they didn't have the "big belly" mod that the D's had so they only carried approx half the bombs and the crews were pulled on short notice from SAC units focused on nuclear bombing missions and weren't really as up to speed as the D crews who had spent much more time in theater. 

 

A great read on the subject is here if you are interested.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Eleven-Days-Christmas-Americas-Vietnam/dp/1893554279w

Edited by 11bee
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20 hours ago, Murph said:

 

Yes, the G models flew in Vietnam, and several were lost in combat during Linebacker II.

 

Regards,

Murph

Thanks! I'm helping with a Vietnam case for my local museum and picked up an old Revell 1/144 G. I didn't want to put it in there if it didn't belong.

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44 minutes ago, modelcollect said:

hi

     i am modelcollect,  we will following your discuss, for update our G and H early type kit.

Glad to hear! As you can tell your B-52 lineup of kits has garnered much attention.

 We’re here to help anyway we can. We feel that MC has a huge opportunity to fill a very large void in the modeling market with a well done Buff. 

 

 

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On 9/24/2018 at 6:14 PM, Hooker169 said:

When the phase VI ECM upgrade and EVS modes were made, it only mentions the 40 inch tail extension that was added to accommodate additional ECM gear.

I didn't know about the early G's lack of the 40 inch plug! Good to know.

 

After some research there is indeed a tail extension but seems the H got it too.

jaJtnOQ.jpg

 

And the nose shapes of the G/H.

 

Pictures below show that a distance from upper radome joint line to radome tip of the newer G/H is noticeably longer.

 

VEGhaa8.jpg

 

XxCpnNR.jpg

 

 

Edited by Teeradej
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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 3:20 PM, Darren Roberts said:

Thanks! I'm helping with a Vietnam case for my local museum and picked up an old Revell 1/144 G. I didn't want to put it in there if it didn't belong.

Darren,

 

The Revell 1/144 B-52G (#4583 & #4797) represents a late model G with START treaty wing strakelet modifications.  It does not represent a Vietnam era G at all.  Unfortunately, there is no out-of-the-box 1/144 Vietnam B-52G kit available.  I have several B-52G/H projects going at the moment, none of them SOOTB.  I am swapping parts and / or adding aftermarket parts and engines to get the particular era B-52G/H I want or am left with. BLUF: What you need is a straight wing (pre-START) B-52G fuselage/wing, without EVS & ECM bumps, 4x .50 cal tail turret & J-57PW-43 engines.  I can help and sent you a PM with details.

 

R/

Dutch

Edited by Dutch
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54 minutes ago, Teeradej said:

 

After some research there is indeed a tail extension but seems the H got it too.

jaJtnOQ.jpg

 

And the nose shapes of the G/H...

DnMxtNY.jpg

OTgCAWY.jpg

 

 

 

Here is a great breakdown done by Joe Baugher on www.joebaugher.com. The mod timeframes are generally the same for the G and H model respectively.

 

"Between 1972 and 1976, all surviving B-52Gs were provided with the AN/ASQ-151 Electro-optical Viewing System (EVS) to give the B-52 crew enhanced vision when flying at low level at night. The system was contained in two prominent fairings underneath the nose. The port fairing contained a steerable Westinghouse AN/AVQ-22 low-light-level television camera, whereas the starboard unit contained a Hughes AN/AAQ-6 forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor. Both units feed information into video display screens for the pilot, copilot, and both navigators. Data that could be presented on these screens included overlaid terrain avoidance profile trace in both TV or FLIR mode, alphanumeric symbology which included a height reading from the radar altimeter and time-to-go before weapons release, as well as indicated airspeed, heading error and bank steering, artificial horizon overlay and attitude and position of the sensor in use. When not in use, the EVS sensors rotated into the blisters for protection. The optical windscreens for the sensors even had inflight washing capability.

The Phase VI ECM Defensive Avionics Systems (ECP2519) was an upgrade program designed to improve the electronic countermeasures capabilities of the B-52G fleet. The program was started in December of 1971, but it took several years of development and testing before the final configuration was decided, and then several more years before the entire fleet could be upgraded. Upgrades were still continuing as recently as the late 1980s. Externally, the most visible change was in the extreme aft fuselage, which was extended farther to the rear by 40 inches to accommodate extra electronic equipment. However, the addition of so many antennae required that many other assorted bumps and warts be added over the exterior, which spoiled the fairly clean lines of the original B-52G. The equipment added as part of Phase VI consisted of an AN/ALR-20A countermeasures receiver, an AN/ALQ-117 active countermeasures set, an AN/ALR-46(V) digital radar warning receiver set, an AN/ALQ-122 false target generator system (sometimes known as Smart Noise Operation Equipment), AN/ALT-28 noise jammers, AN/ALQ-153 tail warning radar set, AN/ALT-32H and AN/ALT-32L high and low-band jamming sets, AN/ALT-16A barrage-jamming system, 12 AN/ALE-20 flare dispensers (192 flares) and eight AN/ALE-24 chaff dispensers (1125 bundles). The chaff dispensers were housed in the wing trailing edge, just outboard of the inner engine pod in the region between the two sets of flaps. This space had been occupied by an aileron on previous versions of the B-52. The AN/ALQ-117 system was supported by a pair of antennae which were housed inside a rather prominent teardrop-shaped bulge that protruded from each side of the nose underneath the cockpit, as well as special antennae installed in the extreme rear of the fuselage. The antenna for the ALT-28 was housed inside a rather prominent bump installed on the forward nose just ahead of the windshield. The antennae for the AN/ALQ-153 tail-warning radar were installed in a pod which was attached to the tip of the port horizontal tail. Subsequent refinements involved replacement of the AN/ALQ-117 unit by an AN/ALQ-172(V)1 unit, but still keeping the antennae associated with the original AN/ALQ-117."

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Today I found that rear ends those radomes start from different fuselage stations. I cannot find any single written reference but I still believe that there was alteration of radome/nose section design was really happened.

E199gQ8.jpg

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1 hour ago, Teeradej said:

Today I found that rear ends those radomes start from different fuselage stations. I cannot find any single written reference but I still believe that there was alteration of radome/nose section design was really happened.

E199gQ8.jpg

 

I believe you’re right Teeradej. So MC’s late G nose may have been modeled after the early G nose the whole time and they just added the EVS. I also can’t find anything in writing stating the radome was extended during the EVS mods.

The good news is I asked MC on Facebook to come over to ARC so we could have “actual person” to make suggestions to, and they obliged. So maybe a lot of these pitfalls can be avoided in their D release.

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13 hours ago, Hooker169 said:

 

I believe you’re right Teeradej. So MC’s late G nose may have been modeled after the early G nose the whole time and they just added the EVS. I also can’t find anything in writing stating the radome was extended during the EVS mods.

The good news is I asked MC on Facebook to come over to ARC so we could have “actual person” to make suggestions to, and they obliged. So maybe a lot of these pitfalls can be avoided in their D release.

our G/H early nose is different with new G/H nose, i think in next week, we maybe can have new test shot for G/H nose.

 

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18 minutes ago, modelcollect said:

our G/H early nose is different with new G/H nose, i think in next week, we maybe can have new test shot for G/H nose.

 

Make sure you mold the lower ejection seat hatches under the EVS pods like below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/seansims/6163487855/in/photostream/

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/24/2018 at 9:47 PM, Dutch said:

Yes, the original G/H radome was different from preceding C/D/E/F radomes in that it was a one piece affair that hinged upward from just below the cockpit window frames.  The C/D/E/F had two separate radomes; one that covered the main radar immediately below the cockpit and one that covered the two smaller bomb/nav radars in the lower nose.  The original G/H radome had a fairly smooth vertical contour.  When the EVS's and ECM blisters were added, they created a new radome with a lateral "pinch" about half-way down each side, ostensibly for aerodynamic purposes.  Compare photos of G/Hs from up to 1974 to photos after 1975-79 when the EVS mods were done; you will notice a marked difference.  EVS mods came first, followed five-ten years later by the ECM blisters. [Note: I stand corrected.  Electerosoldier is correct.  The G/H one-piece radome was the same prior to and after the EVS & ECM mods. My apologies for confusing the subject.]  HTH, R/ Dutch 

Are you sure Dutch or maybe I misunderstand the strike through, but surely there is a marked profile difference between pre and post EVS / ECM blister retrofit?

 

Marc.

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On 9/27/2018 at 10:41 AM, Teeradej said:

Today I found that rear ends those radomes start from different fuselage stations. I cannot find any single written reference but I still believe that there was alteration of radome/nose section design was really happened.

E199gQ8.jpg

Yes, you're correct I reckon. Can you manage to re-post your pictures?

Marc.

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On 9/28/2018 at 1:54 AM, modelcollect said:

our G/H early nose is different with new G/H nose, i think in next week, we maybe can have new test shot for G/H nose.

 

Hi MC,

 

What sources did you use to implement the corrections?

 

Thanks,

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1 hour ago, serendip said:

Are you sure Dutch or maybe I misunderstand the strike through, but surely there is a marked profile difference between pre and post EVS / ECM blister retrofit?

 

Marc.

Marc,  The overall radome did not change, the ECM blisters and the EVS fairings were simply added to the existing radome shape.  R/ Dutch

 

Edited by Dutch
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15 hours ago, serendip said:

Yes, you're correct I reckon. Can you manage to re-post your pictures?

Marc.

 

Sorry but they are on another recent thread about this. Here it is LINKY.

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On 6/11/2020 at 6:59 PM, Dutch said:

Marc,  The overall radome did not change, the ECM blisters and the EVS fairings were simply added to the existing radome shape.  R/ Dutch

 

Dutch,

Thanks for the feedback. I know you're a bit of a knowledge expert on this but the pictures above and the link below someone provided on BritModeller do seem to indicate otherwise.

 

Do me a favour and let me know how you know for sure there was no change. Pictures seem to indicate it occurred when the ALQ-117 antennae were added not the EVS system.

 

https://www.markstyling.com/b52s5.htm

 

 

 

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