Ollie T-Y Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Hi all, I was sat thinking about the fit of a few of the models in my stash and it led me to a question: What leads to a good/bad fit between parts? How do some companies get fit so wrong, and what processes are there to make sure everything aligns perfectly *cough* TAMIYA *cough* in the final product? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 In DAO, all surfaces align and fit perfectly. But when you inject plastics, they warp, they shrink. You've got to know how to reduce, minimize, prevent, counterbalance these effects. It's all about settings. Some companies have this knowledge (Tamiya, Hasegawa, etc). Some are trying to improve. Some simply don't care. Worst, some are just unable to design a usable clear PS parts mold to produce decent parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Pretty much nailed it above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 You can have a similar discussion about modelers. When I first started, clamps and filler were my primary tools. Now, my first goal is for the parts to fit together perfectly. Some kits are easy to get to that point; others less so. And some, well, for the reasons cited above, I still have occasion to use those clamps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alternative 4 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 In my expierience Hasegawa do not have the knowledge to make a good fitting kit. Their 1/48 F-16 and 1/72 F-18F for example are horrible fitting kits, over-engineered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 is 35 years old. At that time, we'd got to deal with Matchbox or Heller/Airfix kits. Just try the 1/48 Heller Etendard, you will see. And I never heard their 1/72 SH was a horrible fitting kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I’ve never had fit problems with Hasegawa F-16s - in any scale. I have had “challenges” with the Kinetic F-16 though. Most of the poor fitting kits I have encountered were Chinese knockoffs - Zhengdefu, Ace, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Tamaya gets the win in this area. Some of the more complex assemblies on their 32nd Corsair are simply amazing. They just click together. How they were able to engineer their parts with this level of precision is beyond me. Coming in close behind is Wingnuts. The only issue with these guys is that they are molded to such tight tolerances that if you paint the mating surfaces, sometime that's enough to throw everything out of alignment. Don't ask me how I know this. Haven't built any recent ZM, Hase, GWH kits so I can't comment. Have built some Kitty Hawk, Kinetic and Revell. All I can say is that these guys really need to up their game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 All of my Tamiya builds have been a joy to assemble. I’ve only built two of my Trumpeter kits from the stash, A7-E and F-105. A7 I did the Zacto conversion, but those two also went together great. My nemesis has been the Revell P-51’s I’m building. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Scott Smith said: My nemesis has been the Revell P-51’s I’m building. Are you referring to the recently released 1/32 P-51D ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Yea, I've whined enough on multiple forums about them. Others have agreed, many have said they encountered no issues. Not sure if it was a hit or miss production run, or what. Decaling one now, other is ready for paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The builder. Kits deemed crap fit, but people did wonders. And vice versa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 3:43 AM, Ollie T-Y said: Hi all, I was sat thinking about the fit of a few of the models in my stash and it led me to a question: What leads to a good/bad fit between parts? How do some companies get fit so wrong, and what processes are there to make sure everything aligns perfectly *cough* TAMIYA *cough* in the final product? I hear this excuse all the time, but usually write the whining and crying off to other things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ollie T-Y Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 12 hours ago, ChesshireCat said: I hear this excuse all the time, but usually write the whining and crying off to other things. What excuse? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stratospheremodels Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 9:35 AM, 11bee said: Tamaya gets the win in this area. Some of the more complex assemblies on their 32nd Corsair are simply amazing. They just click together. How they were able to engineer their parts with this level of precision is beyond me I've had that same experience with several recent East European models from different brands. So Tamiya and Hasegawa are definitely not the only ones who can design kits with good fit. Though I don't have too many Tamiya's or Hasegawa's in my stash, but I do have some Finemolds , and those are just as good as these other 2 Japanese companies. Stephane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 What I don't understand is the need to criticize a modeler that can't wrestle a really POOR fitting kit and making them feel inferior because they actually expect a company to produce a kit that fits together. Yes, most any kit can be made to be a great looking model, and I agree it's a very good skill set to have in a modeler's repertoire. But saying that it's an excuse or indicating they are a bad modeler comes across as rather pompous. I think it's a very honest and interesting question about the engineering behind model kit manufacturing. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 One of the reasons my shelf of doom is so full is that I will take on what I know is a kit with a ‘poor fit’ reputation just for the practice of fitting and filling etc. More than likely I will never finish the kit but it served its purpose. “Practice on a dog, perfect on a masterpiece. “ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) I recently built the Tamiya 1/32 P-51. It was a true engineering marvel. Then I pulled out a 1/48 Monogram B-25. In its day it was probably close to the level of a Tamiya. The P-51 inspired me to dig a little deeper to make the B-25 a little better, make things fit better, not talking about adding after-market stuff. Just going slower and trying to get everything out of the kit I could. It was like the Tamiya kit challenged me to put more effort into something more challenging. Try to do what Tamiya did. Geoff M Edited November 28, 2018 by Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Geoff M said: I recently built the Tamiya 1/32 P-51. It was a true engineering marvel. Then I pulled out a 1/48 Monogram B-25. In its day it was probably close to the level of a Tamiya. The P-51 inspired me to dig a little deeper to make the B-25 a little better, make things fit better, not talking about adding after-market stuff. Just going slower and trying to get everything out of the kit I could. It was like the Tamiya kit challenged me to put more effort into something more challenging. Try to do what Tamiya did. Geoff M Excellent job on that classic. I built the same kit in-flight a few years ago and took the same attitude. Sometimes the newer, better fitting kits have made me think of how to make these classics looks a tad better (I have a Monogram B-17G and a gun nose A-26peaking out at me from the stash as I type). Cheers Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/26/2018 at 10:48 AM, ST0RM said: The builder. Kits deemed crap fit, but people did wonders. And vice versa No, you can fill, sand, and correct a bad fitting kit, but that doesn't make it a well engineered good fit. There is no doubt new kits from companies like Tamiya and Bandai are just better engineered than most. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 If you're interested, this is the way Tamiya works on model kit (CAD and mold design): And this is how they optimize their R&D: Here you can see surface finish of their mold (note that the mold isn' complete yet): https://youtu.be/OkHDZBfqxNE?t=3645 Here a design review of a simple assembly: https://youtu.be/OkHDZBfqxNE You dont' need to understand japanese to see how engineers who are talking here know their stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Also a reminder old kits may have fit better 20-30 years ago. Plastic creeps and warps over time sitting in the box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 One thing to consider for fit is how old the molds are. The Revell kits are a great example. The new issues of kits like the P-40, Avenger, etc don't fit well at all, but the original issues from the late 50s and 60s actually fit very well. I have one of the Avenger kits made when the molds were still new and it fits very well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, toadwbg said: Also a reminder old kits may have fit better 20-30 years ago. Plastic creeps and warps over time sitting in the box. It's the opposite, plastics relax with time. And if you want see them creep, they must endure a constant strain through time. Unless you left a anvil above your model kit box, your sprues will be safe. 1 hour ago, nspreitler said: One thing to consider for fit is how old the molds are. The Revell kits are a great example. The new issues of kits like the P-40, Avenger, etc don't fit well at all, but the original issues from the late 50s and 60s actually fit very well. I have one of the Avenger kits made when the molds were still new and it fits very well. Molds decline with time. Adjustments become not so fine, flash appear and parts don't fit anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 4 hours ago, shion said: .Unless you left a anvil above your model kit box, your sprues will be safe. . Or stored them in the attic.... (heat) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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