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VH-53D Help (Solved) - Now with added VH-3A and D content!


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So, there I am, taking a break from building a series of Sea Kings, and dig out one part-built and two stripped and partially-dismantled CH/HH-53 kits from storage (I also have another half-a-dozen slightly-started and un-started kits in the stash)...

...decide to go the whole hog, and completely dismantle all three, then start looking at what versions to re-build them as, and what schemes to re-finish them in; one was always going to be a HMX-1 VH-53D, using Microscale 72-445 decals - but while looking to see if I could find some more photos I came across this:

https://sikorskyarchives.com/sikorsky-aircrafts-presidential-helicopters/

Right there on the first page, and repeated again on page 7, is a photo of a VH-53D with a white top alongside a VH-3...

....photos of the (two?) all-green aircraft have proved to be few and far between, but I have never seen a white-top one!

Can anyone identify it by BuNo, please - I'm guessing it's an early incarnation before going all-green, but which airframe?  

Edited by andyf117
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That was why I put (two?) - airliners.net has two photos (one in-service, one at the boneyard) of 157166 in the presidential support scheme...

....I have two photos of 157756, and three of 157755, including this one: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6421143

....between them, I have those (three?) aircraft with and without intake filters, and with small and large external tanks...

....but until finding that newsletter, had never seen one with a white top - so I'm keen to identify it, and maybe find more pics...

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  • andyf117 changed the title to VH-53D Help! (Solved)

  Today I contacted the Sikorsky Archives directly, and got a response within a matter of hours...

....not only were they very helpful by locating the photo to identify the aircraft as being BuNo 157930...

....but they also kindly scanned it and emailed me a full-size copy so I could actually see it for myself...

....I've since found a 1992 photo of 930 in the all-green scheme - so HMX-1 had at least four presidential support -53s...

....but to the best of my (new) knowledge, it seems 157930 is the only one to have been - originally, at least - a 'white top'...

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4 hours ago, andyf117 said:

  Today I contacted the Sikorsky Archives directly, and got a response within a matter of hours...

....not only were they very helpful by locating the photo to identify the aircraft as being BuNo 157930...

....but they also kindly scanned it and emailed me a full-size copy so I could actually see it for myself...

....I've since found a 1992 photo of 930 in the all-green scheme - so HMX-1 had at least four presidential support -53s...

....but to the best of my (new) knowledge, it seems 157930 is the only one to have been - originally, at least - a 'white top'...

That's pretty fantastic that they replied in that manner.  You should send them pics of what you end up building!

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Great find. Did you ask them if it was the only white top 53? 

 

I just can't image only having the one bird with a white top. If that bird is down for whatever reason, they would want another that looks the same so no one would know that was what had happened. I could almost see all four being white top for a bit before going all green as the mission changes. 

 

Also it appears that while that bird mission is VH, that bird type didn't change like the first two birds mentioned. 

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I've now heard back from the archivist in response to two further queries regarding this photo...

....the first was to ask if they knew the date it was taken - advised as being March 9, 1972...

....the second was to ask permission to post the larger version here - most kindly authorised:

1074188629_o.jpg

 

I have converted it to a jpg for posting here - the copy supplied to me was in pdf form, which when enlarged on screen shows the BuNo very clearly...

 

 

Edited by andyf117
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  • 8 months later...

I can confirm that during my tour of duty with HMX-1 at Quantico there was only one VH-53D at any given time. I have to look to see if there was more than one Buno because as airframe rotated back for depot level maintenance other airframes were brought on line. There were other CH-53Ds Painted in the gloss gloss green but not white topped,that were used for VIP support missions but not for White House support. There were also UH-3Ds painted in that same gloss green. The green was a mixture of Army green and Marine Corps Green as a compromise from the era when both services provided White House support on a rotating basis. In those days the VH-3Ds were painted the gloss green which was called Breen or dreen or some such name but the service markings on the tail said Army or Marines. When the Army helicopter support was dropped thewas when they changed to the United States Of America on the side of the aircraft. When the VH-53D was phased out the squadron painted a VH53E in the White top scheme and currently has at least one VH22 Osprey painted in the white top scheme

 

During the LBJ administration the Army supported the Texas White house while the Marines supported the DC White House..

As usual my buddy Tank beat me to the punch and was right on the mark with his information.

 

Semper Fi 

 

Gary D

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  • 3 years later...

Apologies for resurrecting an older thread but this seems like the best place to come with my query. 

 

Can it safely be assumed that any USMC helicopter bearing an MX code on its tail is an HMX-1 helicopter, dedicated to supporting US Presidential Marine Corps helicopter operations?

 

I have found a picture on the web of what appears to be a CH-53D in standard USMC green with high-viz markings from 1975. It is bearing the code "MX30" on the tail along with "30" on the fuselage sides and nose. I have found a second photo of a Green-top CH-53 (possibly an HH-53C) and in the background is a standard CH-53 with the number "30". That photo also dates from 1975 and the airfield looks similar in both photos. The tail isn't visible in this second photo but to my mind, it is probably the same aircraft. It's BuNu is 156964. Even though it is a CH-53D, it lacks the EAPS and external auxiliary fuel tanks. I'm not sure if these links are permitted. If not, I will remove them.

 

 https://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p934046062/h667b0635#h667b0635

 

Here is the second photo with the same helicopter in the background (?).

 

https://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p934046062/h67FD933F#h67fd933f

 

Could MX30 be an HMX-1 CH-53D? 

 

As I hope to return to the hobby as soon as I can get a new modelling desk up and running since being evicted from my modelling room by a new-born, I am assessing moving into 1/144 scale and Revell's CH-53 kit in that scale is crying out to be built as an early USMC machine. An HMX-1 one would be even more interesting! Thanks for any help anyone can offer,

 

LD.

Edited by Loach Driver
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Yes, the MX tail code was/is used by HMX-1, but the aircraft which carried it were not usually assigned to presidential support, but engaged in the unit's other role as the primary Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E) unit for Marine assault support helicopters and related equipment - other examples below:

6523593275_25b902d252_b.jpg

6529424429_dc0b2598d6_b.jpg

7881221854_5c5c89e6d7_o.jpg

That said, 'Green Side' presidential support aircraft (and their crews) also participate in the OT&E tasking:

DM-SC-89-05467.jpeg

DM-ST-88-09853.jpeg

Edited by andyf117
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Andy is correct here.  Those birds with the "MX" designator on the tail are "Green Side" support helicopters.  they do various support missions for HMX-1, which at the time of most of these photographs included OT&E work as HMX-1 was the designated testor for assualt support aviation then.  They also will do support missions out of MCAF Quantico to among other things support Officers Candidate School (OCS) and The Basic School (TBS) evolutions. Troop movements, night troop inserts and some time artillery lift as the picture above shows.

 

Green Side aircraft do not typically support presidential operations.  Not in the colors Andy showed above, the white "MX" on the tails or fuselage.  The CH-53D with drop tanks is definetly a presidential support airplane.  It will haul the press corps and other digniataries, as well as logistic support for the Marine-1 VH-3's.  CH-53D, CH-46D/E, CH-53E and now MV-22B's are all Green Side support.  Today HMX-1 is out of the DT&E, OT&E role as it is now all done down at PAX River and MCAS New River with VMX-1.

 

The 1/144th CH-53A would be a great model to depict MX-30 an early HMX-1 Green Side support helicopter!

 

r/Gunny Dan

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Apologies for the slow reply to both comments. Work had me away from any computer for a few days. Andy, thanks for clarifying the situation in relation to the "MX" tail codes. I had always assumed these were Presidential support aircraft, as a rule. Dan, thanks as well for your comments. Always good to hear from a H-53 expert. The 1/144 Revell H-53 kit really is underexploited by Revell, if you ask me. They should release the HH-53 kit again with external tanks and refuelling probe in USAF, USMC and US Navy markings (RH-53D) as well as a Green Side CH-53D. They'd sell well!

 

I found these two photos of an early SH-3A in MARINES markings. I'm assuming it is designated SH-3A but also could have been referred to as a UH-3A (?). These two pics date from the 8th of May 1962, the date that the then President of the United States, John F. Kennedy, embarked on the first ever flight for a U.S. President in the VH-3A. That particular VH-3A wore "ARMY" titles and is visible in the background in the first photo. Also present on the South Lawn that historic day was this H-3A bearing the markings "XM52". This, presumably, was an HMX-1 machine. It's interesting that this is a Green Top machine and not a USMC White Top. (These photos come from the JFK Photo Library.)

 

 

KN-21432

 

 

 

ST-159-7-62

 

Can anyone hazard a guess as to the shade of green for this USMC H-3A? Was it likely to be Field Green or would it have been the U.S. Army shade of Olive Drab that was in use at that time? The VH-3As at that time apparently had a mix of Field Green and Olive Drab. The mix of colours reflecting the fact that both the Army and Marine Corps supplied flight crews for the operation of the President's helicopter fleet. I don't know how true it is that the two colours were mixed but that is something I have read. 

 

Thanks again for any assistance anyone can offer with this query. The modern VH-3Ds are reasonably well documented but the early VH-3 operations of the 1960's and 70's are quite interesting too.

 

LD.

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1 hour ago, Loach Driver said:

Can anyone hazard a guess as to the shade of green for this USMC H-3A? Was it likely to be Field Green or would it have been the U.S. Army shade of Olive Drab that was in use at that time? The VH-3As at that time apparently had a mix of Field Green and Olive Drab. The mix of colours reflecting the fact that both the Army and Marine Corps supplied flight crews for the operation of the President's helicopter fleet. I don't know how true it is that the two colours were mixed but that is something I have read.

The JFK archive is a great resource (as is the Reagan one), and is where the photos of his Cork visit came from over in this other thead:

....as for the colour scheme, it's my understanding that the 'mixed' shade - a 50-50 blend of the Army's Olive Drab and the Marines' Field Green and often referred to as 'Breen' - was introduced later, under LBJ's tenure...

....also from the JFK collection are these photos, which, to my eye, appear to show the two original different schemes - Army OD, and Marines FG:

Return_of_the_President_from_Florida._Pr

JFKWHP-KN-C21519.jpg

JFKWHP-KN-C22037.jpg

JFKWHP-ST-C164-8-63.jpg

JFKWHP-KN-C24239.jpg

I know consideration of varying film types, lighting conditions, etc., have to be taken into account, but the two service's helos certainly look to wear different shades of green to me - and I'd suggest that in keeping with the rest of HMX-1's fleet at the time, that 'XM'-coded HSS-2 (if you look carefully, you can just make out the designation above the BuNo 148041) would likely have been overall FS14097...

 

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Great spot there, Andy! The two branches of the armed forces certainly went to some lengths to assert their respective identities, right down to the shades of green they used to paint their helicopters!

 

Here is another HMX-1 Sea King in flight over Washington DC. The caption on this photo indicates it is an SH-3G. I'd imagine this picture might depict a training flight for a new pilot being trained up for "White Top" operations, but who knows.

 

sh-3g_149729

 

 LD.

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  • 2 weeks later...

MX-14 shown in the picture over the Jefferson memorial is tail number 149729. It was there for a photo op. There are pictures like this of all the makes of A/C with HMX. The Crew Chief of this A/C in 73/74 was Phil Jecubic who has since passed. The white top CH-53 was not attached to the white side. If I remember correct there were some tests to see if a 53 could serve in the Presidential mission. The white house lawn and landscaping had other ideas. Some of the fancier paint jobs on the green side went away during the gas shortage in the 70's. In the 70's there was only one green side helicopter to serve on the white top side. (Cage) This was MX-15 a SH-3G, 148043, which flew as the White aircraft at the sub station at the old NAS Anacostia. These were alert birds in case of the big one or other emergency. Three A/C in total, Gold, Red and White. I was the Crew Chief of MX-15 on the green side. When I was a Crew Chief on the White side, Top Hillard sent MX-15 to the presidential side I was again assigned as the crew chief. I trained a future CO of HMX on that A/C at Anacostia. When the VH-3Ds went in service MX-15 went back to the Navy. It is now at the air museum at the old NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii.

The picture of MX-22 a CH-53. MX-22 use to be on a CH-46 crew by the twin brother of Phil Jecubic, Eric. On the nose was a infrared camera and a receiver in the cockpit. That was tested at times old school, Crew Chief as copilot. There were a lot of test programs at the time on the green side at HMX. MX-16, 148037 was testing a Sperry flight control system. During a Major test flight after an overhaul we had an inflight fire in the system. It was bolted to the deck on a piece of wood. The wood was on the magnesium deck over the forward fuel tank. We had lifted off the north end of Quantico and were over the Potomac river. Fun Times.

HMX had help at the time with supporting the officers school etc with HMM-263 which was stationed at Quantico back then.

There was a time back then when the SH-3Gs and CH-53s pulled a lot more of the support missions for the grunts, officers school and SAR missions. The CH-46s were having rotor blade problems and a lot were in down status and could not fly. They were loosing blade pockets. That's probably why the 53 is pictured picking up the field piece. I think that the Crew Chief in that picture is Woody Goodnight. None of the 53s, 46s or Huey's had VIP seats in those days, Just bench troop seats. Of the 3 SH-3Gs two had troop seats and only MX-14 had some VIP seating but nothing like the VH-3s.

Of the VH-3As some had the sliding rear door and some had a rear air-stair door where the sliding door would be. Even some of the paint jobs were different in some small ways. The color was 50% USMC green and 50% Army green. Very good looking green. Any questions feel free to contact me.

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Informative stuff, Bill, thanks...

 

....meanwhile, returning to the original subject of the 'White Top' VH-53 (though that was never, apparently, an offical designation) - contrary to a previous assertion that there was only ever one at a time, photographic evidence, during a Presidential visit to Puerto Rice, July 1976, proves otherwise:

HMX-1.jpg.1abe17becbf393cefb03943d90abaf00.jpg

Edited by andyf117
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Never a VH-53 is correct. The 53 was never certified for Presidential transport. Was replying to the numerous links with pictures and that at different times tail numbers would change as air craft left. Example is the 46 with MX-14 and the 53 with MX-22. The visit to Puerto Rico was in June of 76. Ford traveled in VH-1Ns for that trip as we were very busy with Bicentennial visit planning. Those 53s were green side air craft. Would be loaded with trip boxes with parts and supplies as well as personnel.  There were also HMX 53s painted the normal Marine green.

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Although they may never have been certified as such, HMX-1 CH-53s did see use as Presidential transports on at least two documented occasions, as per these posts over in Gunny Dan's H-53 reference thread:

 

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July 4, 1986. President Regan arrived and departed on the USS Kennedy aboard Marine One, a VH-3D. The 53 dropped off personnel then departed. After that the number 3 A/C arrived, discharged its passengers then departed. The number 2 A/C then landed to discharge it's VIP then shut down. Then Marine one landed next to the number 2 bird with the President on board. There are a number of classified communication devices in all the VH-3 A/C. None in the green side A/C.  The July 4, 1976 picture again the 53 is in support. President Ford arrived on the carrier in New York Harbor, on board a VH-3D for the pass of the tall ships for our country's Bicentennial. For HMX this trip was saddened by the death of one of the Marine security guards who was killed by a lightning strike at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, July 3, 1976. The old airfield at the Navy Yard was a refueling stop. The day before was to fine tune the times for the lift. The fuel truck was sent from MCAS Quantico sealed and under guard. There were also problems with domestic terrorist, the weather underground, threatening to cause problems. HMX took that serious. Up to that point the guards only carried 45 caliber pistols. They then started to also carry shot guns and the guard was doubled.

 

ingstrike

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In which case, the National Archives entries are in error, as both the photo which I posted and a similar one there are captioned: 

"A US Marine Corps CH-53D Sea Stallion helicopter from Marine Helicopter Squadron 1 (HMX-1) lands aboard the aircraft carrier USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (CV 67) with President and Mrs. Ronald Reagan aboard during the International Naval Review" (my italics).

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6421141

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6421143

As for the airliners.net one - already erroneously captioned as a CH-124A (Canadian Sea King) - presumably, the photographer who provided the caption "President Ford landing on the deck of the USS Forrestal" was simply misinformed...

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Andy & Bill,

President and Mrs. Reagan arrived aboard USS JFK on 4 July 1986 aboard VH-3D #1 as evidenced by this Youtube video.  The video shows a CH-53D and a VH-3D (#3) landing prior to and taking off again, followed by VH-3D #2 which shuts down and finally VH-3D #1. At the 5:30 point, President and Mrs. Reagan deplane VH-3D #1.

HTH,

Dutch

 

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  • andyf117 changed the title to VH-53D Help (Solved) - Now with added VH-3A and D content!

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