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AN-M66 bomb with conical tail


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21 hours ago, Finn said:

 

Jari, many thanks for keeping a sharp eye for this rather obscure bomb! I tried to do rough measurements on the movie stills, because I had some doubts whether these were 1000 lbs AN-M65s or 2000 lbs AN-M66s. I do not see the small step between the bomb body and the tail section, that is typical for the AN-M66.

 

The one shown below looked size-wise to me like the big AN-M66, but when I roughly measured the tail fin span, it looks like its was an AN-M65. Its tail span is listed as 26.2" , and in the 45 deg rotated view that makes 18.5". Yet I measure around 16" when I very roughly assume the lift door is 50" tall - guesstimated from the ducking sailor. Or am I doing something wrong?

 

an-m66usn.jpg

 

Rob

 

Edited by Rob de Bie
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8 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Those are a 1000 lb bombs, the skids they are using (AERO 12C) are only rated for 1250 lbs.

 

Thanks for the confirmation!

 

In another film the other end of the bomb lift can be seen. At 0:43 an AN-M65 arrives topside, and it seems to mostly fill the lift platform length. I don't think an AN-M66 would fit, at 117" instead of 91" overall length.

 

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675065138_Gulf-of-Tonkin-Incident_pulling-bomb_bomb-on-cart_coming-up-elevator

 

Rob

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Another reason why you won't see a M66 on an AERO 12C, it would be extremely difficult to move!

 

Moving an AERO 12C with 1000 lbs may look easy but trust me, it ain't. Put a 2000 lb'er on it and you better be built like the Terminator!

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6 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Another reason why you won't see a M66 on an AERO 12C, it would be extremely difficult to move!

 

Moving an AERO 12C with 1000 lbs may look easy but trust me, it ain't. Put a 2000 lb'er on it and you better be built like the Terminator!

 

In the film that I linked I wondered about that too: single-handed the crews pull the cart+bomb from the lift, and manoeuvre the combination quite easily around. They must be in better shape than most of us..

 

Rob

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12 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

In the film that I linked I wondered about that too: single-handed the crews pull the cart+bomb from the lift, and manoeuvre the combination quite easily around. They must be in better shape than most of us..

 

Rob

The weight isn't the issue when it comes to picking it up and maneuvering it, it's the length of the bomb. The longer the bomb the harder it is to maneuver the skid. For the M65 the center of gravity is positions right on the pivot point of the skid so picking it up and maneuvering it is actually really easy. I used to move AERO 12C's with 2 x Mk 82's (when I was much younger!) and they were easy to maneuver since the CG was right on the pivot point of the skid, Mk 83's were a different story thought. The one thing you had to make sure was to verify that the bomb(s) were strapped down tight or they would slide right off the front of the skid when you picked it up, seen it happen several time.

Edited by GW8345
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Rob another reference point to get a measurement from would be the lugs, they were either 14in apart, for bombs under 1000lbs or 30in for bombs larger than 1000lb (usually). If you have a nice side view of a bomb and the lugs are seen then you can get a close enough measurement.

 

Jari

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Finn is correct, the M64 and M65 only had 14 inch suspension, the M66 only had 30 inch suspension.

 

Now the useless ordnance information:

 

In order to put 14 inch suspension on a M66 you had to use two Mk 34 Mod 0  Suspension Band (Mk 10 Mod 1 (double band) for internal carriage, ie bomb bays). The center of the forward band will be positioned 26.5 inches from the nose of the unfuzed bomb, the center of aft suspension band will be positioned 40.5 inches from the nose of the unfuzed bomb.

 

Source: NAVWEPS OP 2216 (Vol 1) dated 1 Aug 1960.

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On 8/10/2019 at 5:47 AM, GW8345 said:

The weight isn't the issue when it comes to picking it up and maneuvering it, it's the length of the bomb. The longer the bomb the harder it is to maneuver the skid. For the M65 the center of gravity is positions right on the pivot point of the skid so picking it up and maneuvering it is actually really easy. I used to move AERO 12C's with 2 x Mk 82's (when I was much younger!) and they were easy to maneuver since the CG was right on the pivot point of the skid, Mk 83's were a different story thought. The one thing you had to make sure was to verify that the bomb(s) were strapped down tight or they would slide right off the front of the skid when you picked it up, seen it happen several time.

 

I can only compare that with manoeuvering a shopping cart from the supermarket, which is pretty sad 🙂

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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On 8/10/2019 at 6:29 AM, Finn said:

Rob another reference point to get a measurement from would be the lugs, they were either 14in apart, for bombs under 1000lbs or 30in for bombs larger than 1000lb (usually). If you have a nice side view of a bomb and the lugs are seen then you can get a close enough measurement.

 

Jari

 

A yes, of course, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe because I built my two M65s and two M66s without lugs, which is technically incorrect. Instead they have 2x2 mm magnets installed at 14 / 30 scale inches, so they can be attached to the F-84F pylons that also have magnets, so you can build any configuration.

Rob

 

f84f-40.jpg

 

f84f-57.jpg

 

 

 

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On 8/10/2019 at 7:11 PM, GW8345 said:

Finn is correct, the M64 and M65 only had 14 inch suspension, the M66 only had 30 inch suspension.

 

Now the useless ordnance information:

 

In order to put 14 inch suspension on a M66 you had to use two Mk 34 Mod 0  Suspension Band (Mk 10 Mod 1 (double band) for internal carriage, ie bomb bays). The center of the forward band will be positioned 26.5 inches from the nose of the unfuzed bomb, the center of aft suspension band will be positioned 40.5 inches from the nose of the unfuzed bomb.

 

Source: NAVWEPS OP 2216 (Vol 1) dated 1 Aug 1960.

 

Thanks! For my F-84F stores project this will not apply 🙂 - I can't see those 2000 pounders hanging from the outboard 14" pylons ..

 

Rob

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  • 9 months later...
6 hours ago, Finn said:

Rob here is one on a F-100 in 'Nam:

Jari

 

Hi Jari, thanks for keeping your eyes open for beautiful photos like these! Do you think this is an AN-M65 or an AN-M66? I held my 1/48 versions of these bombs against a derelict Monogram 1/48 F-100D kit, and I think it's an AN-M65. I tried to find the capacity of the inboard pylon, but could not find it.

 

Rob

 

 

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I did a quick & dirty photo measurement, and calculated a body diameter of approximately 470 mm, based on the left guy's arm+ hand+thumb length, that I measured on myself. Manual TM-9-1325-200 says an AN-M65 has a 478 mm body diameter. More than close enough for me!

 

But I have to say: that bomb spotting is a difficult thing. Hardly ever I can see straight  away what type of bomb it is.

 

an-m65-size.jpg

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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  • 1 year later...

Wow, it surely is a big one, that M66!! Thanks for thinking of this older thread again 🙂

 

I'm happy to report that my RNLAF F-84F stores project is now finished. I worked on it for three years, on and off. About half the stores are kits or aftermarket, the rest was scratchbuilt or kitbashed.

 

Everything is fitted with small magnets, so every imaginable configuration can be assembled in seconds, see below. I also added a photo with two M66 and two M65, but I'm pretty sure that this configuration was never flown operationally. The full story can be found here: https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/f84f.htm.

 

I'm now preparing for interviews with former RNLAF F-84F pilots. With a little luck the first one will take place in a couple of days.

 

f84f-128.jpg

 

f84f-147.jpg

 

f84f-155.jpg

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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  • 3 months later...
10 hours ago, Finn said:

Rob here is a green A-6A with conical tail bombs at the 9:30 mark:

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/85103

 

Jari

 

Thanks again! And what a nice shot - I took this screenshot. I can see modex 802, and a bit more searching I found a 'Cut then add' decal sheet that says 'Grumman A-6A Intruder, Bu.No. 151782, Modex 802, VA-85 ‘Black Falcons’, USS Kitty Hawk, 1966' (see: https://ctamodels.com/cut-then-add-1-72-welcome-to-the-jungle)

 

forsale-65.jpg

 

Rob

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