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Saturn V question and Future Build.


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It's early to start a thread about a build as there isn't one just yet, but looks like there will be soon. 1/72 scale at this stage but that may change..ūüôā

 

A couple of questions though on the subject that I'm sure a few would know around this neck of the woods.I tried searching for the answer but just couldn't find what I was looking for. Looking at the heatshield on the Saturn V at JSC it appears that the heatshield is complete in the engine fairings. It's the only S-IC stage I have seen like this but presume that it is correct for flight config? I know this one and the one that was moved to the Infinity Science Center where both flight ready stages and are the ones that I will use for the most part for my Reference of that stage.

 

Another question is the stringer count for the aft thrust structure.  I read somewhere it's 128 just wanted to confirm.

 

Thanks and look forward to building with you fellas soon.

 

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Thanks Hotdog, appreciate the confirm on them aft stringers mate and the S-IC stage in Houston. I'm glad it's been cleaned up and been put under cover to preserve it for hopefully many generations to enjoy. It was out in the open when I visited over there and although it was good for pictures showing all it's stages in the one shot, it was even back then, showing signs of being out in the elements for 20 years. Hopefully they can get the last S-IC stage produced under some protection sooner rather than later. 

 

habu2, I have and It's on my list of things to get. I was just mentioning the same thing to someone a couple of nights back actually. I"m not sure if Glenn has them in stock or gets them printed to order? Either way I'll be getting a set soon. 

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3 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

It's been outside since the Seventies.  That's when I took some photos of the rocket.  I live less than five miles from JSC.

 

You are very lucky being that close to it and you are right, I seen it back in 97 so it'd been sitting there for about 20 years when I got to see it. 

 

 

2 hours ago, habu2 said:

 I posted some pics of the JSC S-IC aft structure on p.8 of this thread:

 

 

Wow they are some really sharp shots. Thanks for posting those.

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I have another question about the heatshield guys. I'm thinking the holddown post pad on the bottom would have been surrounded by the heatshield for flight with just the small post pad area revealed?

 

1121418434_SH2018FieldTrip041-X3..jpg.43bd4fbe8fd3f94aeacdaf0777aa055b.jpg

 

None of the S-IC stages I've looked at though have this panel in place. So does anyone know if they were there actually in place for flight or not?

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There are some small pics in Alan Lawrie’s Saturn book of later flight stages that seem to show only the post pad was exposed. The pics are too small to be certain or to reveal any detail though.

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Yeah I've been looking but haven't found anything that clearly says yes they were present during launch. I am thinking that may have been the case though so will probably only have the exposed post pad showing on the build. I was looking at some LUT engineering camera footage and from one camera I can at least see the opening of the post pad.

Untitled.thumb.jpg.e22965276d0eca2ae8b74f855834d9ad.jpg

 

There doesn't seem to be any contrast difference surrounding it so am thinking the heatshield most likely is surround it. But it's still hard to tell and know for sure.

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On 12/11/2018 at 5:56 PM, Hotdog said:

 And I can confirm 128 on those aft stringers.

 

Are you sure ?  I thought the thrust structure (and intertank) had 108 stringers, and the top interstage ring had 216. 

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HMMM....somewhere I got the number as 120 for the aft thrust structure. At least that's what I modeled and it worked out right in relation to the fairings. but I don't recall where I got that number either so it's questionable.

 

Bill

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My complete notes, pulled from the David Weeks drawings:

 

S-IC
Top & Interstage: 216 stringers, 2"x2"
Intertank: 108 corrugations
Aft: 128 stringers, 3"x3"
Fairings: 19 1" x 1" stringers

 

S-II
Forward: 144 stringers (1.625" x 1.3")
Aft & Interstage: 216 stringers (2" x 2")

 

S-IVB
Forward: 108 stringers .813" wide
Aft: 144 stringers 1" wide
Interstage: 144 stringers 1.2" wide x 2.162"

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well I be...I wonder if my old eyes mis-read 128 and because it was an even number error it still worked out looking correct. Oh well. I guess on the next build I'll correct that and re-print the aft thrust structure. Live and learn.

 

Bill

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My edited wiped out my saying Hotdog was right, it was my memory that failed me. I had these numbers ‚Äúmemorized‚ÄĚ years ago when I first got the abomination that is the Dragon Saturn V kit. Still shaking my head in disgust at all the mistakes made on that kit in the name of ‚Äúshortcuts‚ÄĚ.... ¬†ūü§ģ

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For most people out there they would be none the wiser of all the inaccuracies. It's really just the rivet or in this case, stringer counters out there that can see all of it's issues but it is a shame that it does have so many issues.

 

Thanks Hotdog for that list, I tried searching for basically just that info without any luck.

 

I've now ordered a set of David Weeks drawings a couple of nights back and look forward to getting them. They'll be a big help in many ways. Not sure if Glenn keeps them in stock or has them printed to order but either way they should be down here in the not to distant future.

 

 

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I forgot to mention above that I am one of those stringer counters.. That kit should have been a detailing delight!

 

So I'm in talks with someone about some files being created to use for a build. It will be 1/72 that is decided. Long term goal would be to have a ML/LUT to display it on so I needed to take that into account with the scale. Work will commence early next year on the files as he's tied up till then with other jobs but after those it'll be onto some stuff for me. The part's will be printed down here to help save me on both shapeways costings and the OS postage side of things but my original thoughts on having castings done wont be happening. The files are being made for a personal build only and the other issue is finding someone who could have not only done the castings but kept dimensions perfect. Small parts not so much a problem but the bigger parts very much so.

 

Anyway, I've been going over some things with him already and was looking at the S-IC aft structure with some details that I would like done. He has the David Weeks drawing and sent me a picture of the heatshield drawing when I was talking about how it is on S-IC-14 at JSC. On the drawing it doesn't extend into the fairings as they do on the one at JSC and I'm wondering if there is any good reference known of showing the complete heatshield in the fairings. I need to try and find something to assist him in drawing it up for me. I been searching but all I can really find are some pictures people have taken of the one at JSC from ground level looking up. Is there a plan out there showing the heatshield in that full configuration you fellas know of?

 

I'm looking forward to this build!

Edited by Wombat
Had me S-IC's mixed up 15 instead of 14.
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Here is the flame shield diagram I made from my research:

5qr7t.jpg

The holes accomodate the LVM Studios Batted F-1 Engines.

 

Here is a photo of the laser-etched flame shield for my build, with the LVM F-1's dry fitted. I'll need to paint the flame shield and do a dry wash in order to bring out the panel line details.

344dyr9.jpg

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On 12/12/2018 at 1:31 AM, habu2 said:

You should consider the drawing set from David Weeks as a resource. 

 

http://www.realspacemodels.com/drawing-sets/148-saturn-v-drawing-set

I bought this set when I built my Dragon Saturn V, and I have to say they are essential when building the kit, especially as Dragon left off so much ( Most ? ) detail from their kit.

 

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12 hours ago, Hotdog said:

Here is the flame shield diagram I made from my research:

Thanks for that Hotdog. Although I'm seeing things a little differently from looking at what images I've been able to find, I think that will give him a really good idea of what I would like added to the David Weeks drawings he'll be using to draw the pattern.

I've also been humming and haring over the F1 engines. The batted versions are true to flight but am thinking I will go with them in their uncovered state. Particularly as these days a lot of the detail can be printed on them in the process.

 

habu2, do you have any more pictures like those excellent fairing ones you posted in that other thread showing some more of the heat shield inside the engine fairings?

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If you MUST have a photo, and cannot go by the drawing that I spent MONTHS researching, then here you go:

vg0nqw.jpg

 

Find a guy named Spaceman in the forums. You guys would get along GREAT!

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No need to get testie now..  I'm certainly not having a go at your works mate. I't's simply because of the pictures I've looked at that things don't look the same to me. Even the one you just posted I myself can't see the same thing. For example, where the outrigger supports locate in the pictures it looks like they are right out near the fairings so I'm not sure what the panel is on your drawing. Maybe it's a perspective thing that I'm not taking into account or perhaps that panel is hidden from view. It may be just as simple as that? 

The line you show for the rounded fairing edge again to me is something I can't work out. The rounded fairing ends lines up pretty much with a panel line on the heat shield on the subject but not on your drawing. It's almost like the blue line represents the aft end of the fairing not the level of the heat shield. So it's really just a question of what is going on in the pic vs's your drawing I'm struggling a bit with. 

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