A6M-3 Hamp questions

[Chriss7607]

The version of the Zero that I really like is the Hamp- the one with the squared off wing tips. I have a couple of questions. 

 

First,  I have the new 1/48 Tamiya A6M-3 but it only offers the rounded wing tips. From what I've read if I leave the folding tips off, fair them in, and re-scribe the outboard aileron I can do the Hamp. Correct?

 

Second,  is the cockpit color the Nakajima green? 

 

Thanks!

[Ken from NJ]

There were two versions of the A6M3, the Model 32 with the clipped wings and the Model 22 with the standard length wings.  

 

The Tamiya kit you have was a long time coming to fill the Model 22 void, and although your surgery plans would backdate it to a clipped wing Model 32, it would defeat the purpose of the kit.  There is an older Tamiya Model 32 and several Hasegawa kits that will build up into a Hamp, no surgery needed.  And the old Tamiya Hamp can be found, new, for under $20.

 

And I believe all A6M3s were built by Nakajima so Nakajima green for the cockpit is correct.

 

 

Ken

[seawinder]

8 hours ago, Ken from NJ said:

There were two versions of the A6M3, the Model 32 with the clipped wings and the Model 22 with the standard length wings.  

 

The Tamiya kit you have was a long time coming to fill the Model 22 void, and although your surgery plans would backdate it to a clipped wing Model 32, it would defeat the purpose of the kit.  There is an older Tamiya Model 32 and several Hasegawa kits that will build up into a Hamp, no surgery needed.  And the old Tamiya Hamp can be found, new, for under $20.

 

And I believe all A6M3s were built by Nakajima so Nakajima green for the cockpit is correct.

 

 

Ken

Hmm, everything I've read states that all A6M3s were built by Mitsubishi.

 

FWIW, the Hasegawa A6M3 Model 32 (clipped wings) is one of their more recent Zero toolings and a really nice kit.

Edited December 25, 2018 by seawinder

[Ken from NJ]

Dammit, seawinder.

 

You got me off the couch to verify.  I offer no excuse as I study A6Ms, P-40s, and Typhoons and I should have known that off the top of my head.  You are correct👍 , and there goes my hard earned credibility.

 

Chriss7607, I sincerely apologize for my error as seawinder is correct.  Therefore the cockpit should be Mitsubishi green.

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

[CorsairMan]

Thanks for this info!  But one thing I’d like to know is the difference between Mitsubishi and Nakajima green for the cockpit. 

 

 

[seawinder]

11 hours ago, Ken from NJ said:

Dammit, seawinder.

 

You got me off the couch to verify.  I offer no excuse as I study A6Ms, P-40s, and Typhoons and I should have known that off the top of my head.  You are correct👍 , and there goes my hard earned credibility.

 

Chriss7607, I sincerely apologize for my error as seawinder is correct.  Therefore the cockpit should be Mitsubishi green.

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

Hey Ken, don't be too hard on yourself. I often think when I'm right it's a matter of good luck.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

Pip

[WymanV]

8 hours ago, CorsairMan said:

Thanks for this info!  But one thing I’d like to know is the difference between Mitsubishi and Nakajima green for the cockpit. 

 

 

 

 

 IIRC, Nakajima green leans more to the yellow side than Mitsubishi. I built all the Japanese kits in my stash in one theme build some years ago and went with WEM/Colourcoats for the correct colors.

[seawinder]

As WymanV says, the Nakajima color is lighter, grayer and yellower. FWIW, Mr. Color does both Mitsubishi and Nakajima cockpit greens. According to Nick Millman, whose information I trust implicitly, the closest approach to the real color is to mix two parts of the Nakajima green with one part of the Mitsubishi green. Here are two links to screen shots of the two colors:

https://www.hiroboy.com/Mr_Color_Paint_Cockpit_Colour_Nakajima_10ml__C127--product--10415.html

https://www.hiroboy.com/Mr_Color_Paint_Cockpit_Colour_Mitsubishi_10ml__C126--product--10414.html

[Chriss7607]

Thanks for the replies! Sorry that it took so long for me to get back.

 

I would have gone with the Hasegawa kit if it was available. I like their Zero line. When I looked on ebay,  the Hasegawa Hamps were going for pretty much the same price as the new Tamiya kit.

What happened is that Tamiya's box says A6M- 3/3A and from what I was able to find from sprue shots online, the wing tips were separate pieces. I thought that you could do a -3 (clipped wings) or a -3A (rounded tips) out of the box. Obviously I was mistaken and that's not the case. I don't know that much about the Zero.

 

It seems that I've opened a can of worms. I've never heard of Mitsubishi cockpit green. I always thought that Zero cockpits were Nakajima green or a khaki/tan color. Is there a Model Master enamel paint match for it? I got a 1/32 Tamiya A6M- 2 for Christmas,  so this will be useful later as well.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Chriss7607

[Ken from NJ]

Getting back to 1/48 A6M3 Hamps, this is what I was hoping is available, and it is:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamiya-1-48-A6M3-Type-32-Zero-Fighter-61025/332812467573?epid=2256068999&hash=item4d7d2b3d75:g:UK8AAOSw53hbopo5:rk:13:pf:0&LH_BIN=1

 

Older kit, but builds up nicely.

 

 

Ken

[sakai]

8 hours ago, Chriss7607 said:

Thanks for the replies! Sorry that it took so long for me to get back.

 

I would have gone with the Hasegawa kit if it was available. I like their Zero line. When I looked on ebay,  the Hasegawa Hamps were going for pretty much the same price as the new Tamiya kit.

What happened is that Tamiya's box says A6M- 3/3A and from what I was able to find from sprue shots online, the wing tips were separate pieces. I thought that you could do a -3 (clipped wings) or a -3A (rounded tips) out of the box. Obviously I was mistaken and that's not the case. I don't know that much about the Zero.

 

It seems that I've opened a can of worms. I've never heard of Mitsubishi cockpit green. I always thought that Zero cockpits were Nakajima green or a khaki/tan color. Is there a Model Master enamel paint match for it? I got a 1/32 Tamiya A6M- 2 for Christmas,  so this will be useful later as well.

A6M3 and A6M3a don't indicate rounded and clipped wing tips but difference in the armament.  Original A6M3 is model 22, clipped wing Hamp is model 32. All A6M3 were build exclusively by Mitsubishi.

[Chriss7607]

2 hours ago, sakai said:

A6M3 and A6M3a don't indicate rounded and clipped wing tips but difference in the armament.  Original A6M3 is model 22, clipped wing Hamp is model 32. All A6M3 were build exclusively by Mitsubishi.

Well, that answers that question. Thank you! It's very interesting since Japanese warplanes are not my usual subject. I only know very basic differences in Zero variants. 

 

I also did a little looking and it seems that a F.S. equivilent for the Mitsubishi cockpit green is 34102 Medium Green. I just want to make sure before I paint anything. Like I said, up until now all I had ever heard of were the Nakajima green and the khaki/ tan color. 

 

Thanks! !

[seawinder]

2 hours ago, Chriss7607 said:

Well, that answers that question. Thank you! It's very interesting since Japanese warplanes are not my usual subject. I only know very basic differences in Zero variants. 

 

I also did a little looking and it seems that a F.S. equivilent for the Mitsubishi cockpit green is 34102 Medium Green. I just want to make sure before I paint anything. Like I said, up until now all I had ever heard of were the Nakajima green and the khaki/ tan color. 

 

Thanks! !

To my eye the Mitsubishi color has the character of what's generally called US Interior Green (34153), but is somewhat darker. Model Master does Forest Green 34127 which is reasonably close, although you might mix it with some 34102 to darken it a bit more.

[Scooby]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:20 PM, Chriss7607 said:

Well, that answers that question. Thank you! It's very interesting since Japanese warplanes are not my usual subject. I only know very basic differences in Zero variants. 

 

I also did a little looking and it seems that a F.S. equivilent for the Mitsubishi cockpit green is 34102 Medium Green. I just want to make sure before I paint anything. Like I said, up until now all I had ever heard of were the Nakajima green and the khaki/ tan color. 

 

Thanks! !

 

I thought the newer Tamiya Zero that you say you have has both clipped and rounded wing-tips. So you should be good with what you have.

 

Edit : Just reviewed my kits, I see it doesn’t, the earlier release does as does a Hasegawa kit (all of this information was previously posted in this thread).

Edited December 29, 2018 by Scooby

[Chriss7607]

Thanks for all of the help so far! 

 

I got the older Tamiya Hamp to do as a sort of practice run before starting on the newer, more expensive kits. It's not bad- about on par with the Arii/Otaki Hellcat that I have.  Because it's simple and because of how it's broken down, I was able to subassemble it to where in a short time I have something that looks like a Hamp. It may or may not have been involved in a dogfight with my Eduard Hellcat...

 

Anyways,  I have one more question: what color should the interior of the engine cowling be? The only worthwhile walkaround I could find was of the Air Force Museum's A6M-2. They have theirs painted the aotake metallic blue. Would this hold true for the Hamp and -3 in general? Then again,  they painted their cockpit the tan/khaki and not Mitsubishi cockpit green. Thoughts? 

[seawinder]

1 hour ago, Chriss7607 said:

Anyways,  I have one more question: what color should the interior of the engine cowling be? The only worthwhile walkaround I could find was of the Air Force Museum's A6M-2. They have theirs painted the aotake metallic blue. Would this hold true for the Hamp and -3 in general? Then again,  they painted their cockpit the tan/khaki and not Mitsubishi cockpit green. Thoughts? 

Evidence points to the same color as the exterior of the cowling. For a Mitsubishi-built plane, that would be black with a blue tinge; for a Nakajima-built plane, a black-gray color (black with a bit of white added). There's a photograph of an unrestored cowling here which pretty clearly shows black(-ish) interior color:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947758-zero-detail-colours/

[Chriss7607]

Seawinder-

 

Thank you for all of the help and the link! I was actually going to originally go with the blue-black. I'm glad that I don't have to spray any aotake!  From the link that you provided,  it seems that the wheel wells weren't aotake as well. I never knew that. 

 

There was one thing that I forgot about. While I was working on the older Tamiya kit, I noticed that they put a tailhook on it. I didn't think that the Hamp was carrier capable. I thought that they were all land based, primarily in and around the Solomons. 

[seawinder]

13 hours ago, Chriss7607 said:

Seawinder-

 

Thank you for all of the help and the link! I was actually going to originally go with the blue-black. I'm glad that I don't have to spray any aotake!  From the link that you provided,  it seems that the wheel wells weren't aotake as well. I never knew that. 

 

There was one thing that I forgot about. While I was working on the older Tamiya kit, I noticed that they put a tailhook on it. I didn't think that the Hamp was carrier capable. I thought that they were all land based, primarily in and around the Solomons. 

Hi Chriss. No problem. As for the wheel wells, they were only aotake on planes built by Nakajima. Mitsubishi did them in the same color as the under surfaces.

 

The fact that most A6M3s flew from land bases doesn't mean they weren't carrier capable, at least out of the factory; and they had to have traveled to the combat area(s) aboard carriers. I've found no documentation that Model 32s were produced without hooks, and at least some photos seem to show them, although it's a little hard to tell because most of the hook was buried in the fuselage. I imagine it's possible that some hooks were removed in New Guinea to save weight. It's definitely documented that a lot of 32s had their wooden radio masts sawed off for the same reasons (plus the fact that the available radios were highly unreliable).

[timc]

You cannot create an A6M3 Model 32 by simply just leaving off the wingtips of the model 22; the wings were slightly different between the 22, 22a and 32.  The A6M3 Model 32 had a shorter aileron (spanwise) than did the 22 and 22a.  If you flip a Model 32 upside down and look at the trailing edge of the wing, you'll see a gap between the flap and the aileron that isn't there on the 22, 22a.  I should think it wouldn't be hard to fix this on a model but knowing it's there is half the solution.

 

REFERENCE:  Nohara, Shigeru. (1993). Aero Detail 7, Mitsubishi A6M Zero Fighter. Dai Nippon Kaiga Co., Ltd. Tokyo. (pp. 77-78)

[Chriss7607]

I got out both kits and compared them and I'll be darned! I never noticed that before. Thanks for pointing that out! This is also useful because a while back I got the 21st Century Toys 1/32 A6M-3 kit. It's, well... not really an A6M-3 (it has -5 wings)

[Nachtwulf]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:22 AM, Chriss7607 said:

Thanks for the replies! Sorry that it took so long for me to get back.

 

I would have gone with the Hasegawa kit if it was available. I like their Zero line. When I looked on ebay,  the Hasegawa Hamps were going for pretty much the same price as the new Tamiya kit.

What happened is that Tamiya's box says A6M- 3/3A and from what I was able to find from sprue shots online, the wing tips were separate pieces. I thought that you could do a -3 (clipped wings) or a -3A (rounded tips) out of the box. Obviously I was mistaken and that's not the case. I don't know that much about the Zero.

 

It seems that I've opened a can of worms. I've never heard of Mitsubishi cockpit green. I always thought that Zero cockpits were Nakajima green or a khaki/tan color. Is there a Model Master enamel paint match for it? I got a 1/32 Tamiya A6M- 2 for Christmas,  so this will be useful later as well.

Chris,

 

 If you are still in need. I have a Hasegawa -32 that you can have for the cost of postage. Note to others reading this thread: this offer is to Chris and Chris only, I am not giving away this kit to just anyone.

 

Let me now,

 

Dale

[timc]

To add to the confusion, and in an attempt to correct some misconceptions about paints, there was no specific color called "Mitsubishi" or "Nakajima" interior green.  David Aiken (RIP) pointed this out to us awhile back and the additional descriptor is only an attempt to describe the color differences between the two manufacturers.  However, in the instance of continuity, I'll keep the same reference to the Mfg to reduce the confusion.  There is no FS equivalent to either manufacturers interior green color.  From my perspective, Nakajima's interior green is similar to British Interior Grey-Green but yellower.    Mr. Color produces these two colors well as Numbers 126 and 127, Mitsubishi and Nakajima respectively.  Here's their paint chip chart  courtesy of IPMS Stockholm.  There is quite a difference between the two.  WEMColorcoats doesn't have these currently in production (or any of their WWII Japanese aircraft line it seems with the exception of the green/grey).  Other than Gunze Mr. Color line, I have no idea where you'd find similar colors out of the bottle.  Note that Mr. Color is solvent based acrylic and requires thinner (and some times retarder) to spray properly through an airbrush.  I don't know your experience level so forgive me if you're already aware of this.

[seawinder]

59 minutes ago, timc said:

To add to the confusion, and in an attempt to correct some misconceptions about paints, there was no specific color called "Mitsubishi" or "Nakajima" interior green.  David Aiken (RIP) pointed this out to us awhile back and the additional descriptor is only an attempt to describe the color differences between the two manufacturers.  However, in the instance of continuity, I'll keep the same reference to the Mfg to reduce the confusion.  There is no FS equivalent to either manufacturers interior green color.  From my perspective, Nakajima's interior green is similar to British Interior Grey-Green but yellower.    Mr. Color produces these two colors well as Numbers 126 and 127, Mitsubishi and Nakajima respectively.  Here's their paint chip chart  courtesy of IPMS Stockholm.  There is quite a difference between the two.  WEMColorcoats doesn't have these currently in production (or any of their WWII Japanese aircraft line it seems with the exception of the green/grey).  Other than Gunze Mr. Color line, I have no idea where you'd find similar colors out of the bottle.  Note that Mr. Color is solvent based acrylic and requires thinner (and some times retarder) to spray properly through an airbrush.  I don't know your experience level so forgive me if you're already aware of this.

Yes, I posted links to the two Mr. Color chips about 14 posts above. Whether or not (apparently not) there were official colors named Mitsubishi or Nakajima IG, Gunze/Mr. Color and other hobby paint producers tend to refer to them by those names. To repeat what I posted above, Nick Millman has recommended mixing one part of the Mitsubishi color with two parts of the Nakajima color to make the latter a bit less yellow and more green.

[Chriss7607]

E-mail sent on the- 32 offer. That's great and I appreciate it! 

 

I started the new tool Tamiya A6M- 3 the other night. It's nice but I think it's WAY over-engineered for a 1/48 model, especially for an airplane as small as the Zero. 

 

My plan is to get the Hasegawa -32 and do the aircraft that I want, and eventually build the Tamiya model as-is.

 

As for cockpit color, I think that Seawinder's suggestion of Model Master Forest Green, slightly lightened, will get me pretty close. Strangely, Tamiya's instructions call for XF-71 cockpit green from their color line. However,  it looks more like the Nakajima cockpit green, not Mitsubishi.