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chuck540z3

1/32 Kitty Hawk F-5E Kicked Up A Notch. June 26/19 Titanium Panels

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Masterful job on the sanding Chuck. When I first look at it, it looks un-salvageable but you really saved it.

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Hat's off to ya bud, you seem to have wrestled this beast into submission after a TON of work.

 

Steve

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Oh wow, that was one hell of a joint.  Good job.  Looking forward to the rest of this build...  i've long had a soft spot for the F-5 and T-38.   I see one on my table sometime in the near future. 

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Thanks guys.  I appreciate your comments very much!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

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Intake Update!  It looks like the Phase Hanger seamless intakes are coming soon:

 

Phase Hanger Resin Accessories on Facebook

 

And GT Resin will have some of their own in about 3-4 weeks?

 

GT Resin

 

Since I haven't seen either, I can't vouch for which ones are going to be the best (nor would I), but either product has to be a lot better than PVC plastic pipe!  With intakes en route, all that's really needed now is a decent resin cockpit.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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Posted (edited)

March 28/19

 

 

As shown earlier, I used white styrene sheet at the rear of the front intake parts, to both fill the gaps and provide a sharp demarcation line between the black at the front and the white that will blend into the front of the intake pipes.  Before assembly, the inner parts were painted so that the finish would be smooth, avoiding airbrush air turbulence.

 

 

0amb1g.jpg

 

 

The parts were then glued together, oozing Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (TETC) into the join from the outside, to avoid paint damage on the inside.  As you can see, the kit parts fit like crap, so there was a lot of work to sand down the raised lips and fill the seam line.

 

 

rmQyPq.jpg

 

 

I also painted the inner sides of the intake while the surface was exposed, again to create a smooth paint finish.  I’ve done this as well on the insides of my F-15C Eagle intakes and the vari-ramps (splitters) on my F-4E Phantom.  Better to paint this area now than try to squeeze paint in there later.

 

 

nEcqZn.jpg

 

 

The front intake parts don’t fit the fuselage very well either, partially because KH decided to make the rear of the navigation lights fit into a slot on the fuselage.  There’s no reason for this, since the lights are not recessed into the fuselage on the real deal, but it forces you to place the intake in the very center with no allowance to move it up or down to create a better fit.  Further, the join does not exist as a panel line, so it must be filled and eliminated.

 

 

BEFORE:

2UULyc.jpg

 

 

AFTER- Using lots of CA glue and sanding to create this much smoother finish.

 

 

uwP2Jz.jpg

 

 

BEFORE- The other side has the same problems.

 

 

fjSUVT.jpg

 

 

AFTER:

 

 

Y8TqMk.jpg

 

 

BEFORE.  The bottom, as usual, is worse.

 

 

uc5v8K.jpg

 

 

AFTER.  The lines in purple should be filled and eliminated, while the weak detail on the kit parts needs to be rescribed and the rivets repunched.

 

 

EHFSaB.jpg

 

 

Same pic without the colored lines, which still show “ghost panel lines” from prior staining.

 

nNyiU7.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3

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Posted (edited)

A view from the top, showing in purple which joins to eliminate.

 

 

ZPYbJB.jpg

 

 

Same pic without the colored lines.

 

 

y7pDTr.jpg

 

 

With the front intake extensions painted on the inside and glued on, the sharp contrast from black to white creates a nice sense of depth and unless you use a flashlight like this pic, you really can’t see where the join is.  Could this be the first build of this kit with full intakes?

 

 

PR62nG.jpg

 

 

e5A0K9.jpg

 

 

That’s it for now.  Next up will be wings and landing gear, which have their own set of challenges!

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3

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Nicely done Chuck. I’m sure that was painful to redo all of those joints but the effort was definitely worth it

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Filling seams with CA and rescribing, two arts you have mastered from my perspective. I am a novice in those two areas (I call myself the King of the ghost seam) and love reading your posts. I’m sure the question has been asked mulitple times before, but if not...what are your tips/tricks/methods for your filling-sanding and rescribing work?  

 

Cheers

Collin

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You nailed those intakes. Absolutely gorgeous. And the smooth transitions on the outer sides are just as they should. It really is a beatiful kit but you perfectionized it . Well done! 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Guys!

 

11 hours ago, Collin said:

Filling seams with CA and rescribing, two arts you have mastered from my perspective. I am a novice in those two areas (I call myself the King of the ghost seam) and love reading your posts. I’m sure the question has been asked mulitple times before, but if not...what are your tips/tricks/methods for your filling-sanding and rescribing work?  

 

Cheers

Collin

 

I have been asked how I use CA glue as a filler before, especially when panel lines and rivet detail is enhanced or restored.  Although I’ve written tutorials on this subject before, I can’t find them, so here’s a new updated one!

 

Using CA Glue as a Filler

 

I have been using Cyanoacrylate (CA) glue as a filler for many years and more recently, about 90% of the time over traditional modeling putties. I use CA glue on every single join of my models, to make sure there are no gaps to be found later.   While putty still has its place, CA glue has the following advantages over putty:

 

 

1)  Drying time is quick to immediate, especially if you use an accelerator.

 

2)  Since it dries harder, it sands finer- but sanding must be done within an hour or two of drying.  Left to cure overnight, it will become much harder than the plastic, making sanding difficult.

 

3)  As a glue, it strengthens joins while it fills them.

 

4)  Panel lines can be created or re-scribed over CA glue with a smooth finish, which you can't do with putty.  Again, this should be done within a short time after drying.

 

5)  CA glue doesn’t shrink as it dries, so what you see is what you get after drying.

 

6)  Tell tale flaws can be detected with strong lighting, allowing immediate repair.

 

 

CA Glue Properties.  The first point I stole from the internet, which explains it better than I could.

 

1)  CA glue can only bond with a surface when there is moisture present. This means if the CA glue is placed on a perfectly dry surface, it will not stick to the surface or form a bond.  In contrast, when any amount of moisture is present, the molecules in the glue will react with the moisture to form tight chains in between the two surfaces in contact. This reaction generates heat and occurs instantly, which differs from traditional glue bonding that occurs by evaporation of the base fluid. 

 

2)  Due to the above, thinner glues dry much faster than thicker glues, because more of the surface area to volume of glue is exposed to moisture.  For the same reason, glue in moist air dries quicker than dry air.

 

3)  Over time, thin CA glues get thicker, which is why I only buy thin glues and have a variety of new and older glues on hand resulting in a variety of viscosities.

 

4)  Thin and thick CA glues can be mixed, to create a custom viscosity that you might need for a particular application.

 

5)  CA glues don’t shrink very much, if at all, so only use what you need.

 

 

CA Glue Tools of the Trade.  Although mostly obvious, this is what you need:

 

1)  The right brand and viscosity of CA glue.  I’ve found that not all CA glue works the same and some are better than others.  I’m using Mercury M5 glue right now, because I know how it works and what to expect.  To get the right viscosity, just mix some thin and thicker glues together until you get what you need.  For most applications, I use thin glue only with no mixing.

 

2)  CA glue accelerator.  You often want the glue to dry immediately, so the application of an accelerator will do that, but again, some are better than others.  I used to use an accelerator that worked very quickly, but it also made the glue shrink and shrivel leaving bubble marks and it attacked paint.  The one I use now is much milder to use and does not harm paint if it is removed quickly.

 

3)  CA glue remover, or “Debonder”.  Sometimes the glue doesn’t go where you want it and needs to be removed without sanding.  Great Planes Debonder is the very best there is and it won’t harm the plastic like some other debonders.

 

4)  Applicator Microbrush.  Depending on the application and viscosity of the glue, I use either a very small microbrush (usually white), or the tip of the microbrush with the brush removed.  Bought in bulk, these brushes cost only pennies apiece and I use and throw away dozens of them on every model.

 

5)  Glue container, that is plastic and relatively deep.  Quite by accident I discovered that the cap to a small spray bottle can hold CA glue in a liquid form up to 24 hours.  Glue left on an open flat surface will dry quickly because it is exposed to air moisture, but for some reason glue in this type of container dries very slowly and the glue remains in a liquid form for several hours of glue application.

 

6)  Sandpaper, both #400 and #1000 Tamiya equivalent grits.  I say “Tamiya equivalent” grit, because one brand of #400 sandpaper will often be quite different than another brand of #400 sandpaper, which might be too coarse.

 

Other than the glue accelerator (I’ll find the brand name later), here’s a pic of what I currently use:

 

 

33PgCn.jpg

 

 

The Filling Procedure

 

To fill a seam or join like I’ve done above, the first thing to do is to use Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (TETC) to join the parts together, then ooze a good layer of this cement into the join to swell the plastic and close the gap.  The goal here is to get good adhesion and natural filling without the use of CA glue.  This doesn’t have to be neat along the join at all, but avoid getting any cement in fine detail.  Let this dry for a minimum of 24 hours, or 48 hours if you used a lot of glue.  You want it dry and as hard a possible for sanding.

 

When the TETC has dried properly, sand the join smooth using #400 sandpaper until it is flush, then remove the sanding dust with whatever works the best for you.  I use compressed air, a clean microbrush and sometimes solvent on a rag to get all the dust out of the join.

 

Dipping a microbrush into the CA glue container (not the bottle) and holding the surface horizontal so that the glue won’t drip, apply a thin bead of glue along the seam.  The goal is to totally fill the seam, plus about 10%, to get the top of the glue slightly higher than the surface of the plastic.  Let this dry for a few minutes, then apply glue accelerator with another microbrush along the seam next to the glue itself, but not directly on it.  Tip the parts allowing the accelerator to contact the CA glue and wait about a minute.  The glue will begin to harden on the surface.  When this has happened, apply more accelerator to the glue itself, which should harden completely within seconds.  Wipe off all accelerator with a dry rag.

 

       Note:  Thick CA glues take longer for the accelerator to dry them and they may be dry on the surface, but not internally.  Let thick glues dry much longer before sanding.

 

Again using #400 sandpaper, sand down the seam so that it’s flush.  Ideally, you have CA glue within the seam and not on the plastic on either side.  Using a strong light, check the seam for shiny spots.  These spots are low areas or bubbles where the glue has not been sanded yet.  Depending on the application, either sand down further or using a microbrush tip (without brush), apply a tiny drop of glue to these areas, add accelerator, then sand again.

 

When you are happy that the seam has been filled properly, use #1000 grit sandpaper and smooth the entire seam and surrounding areas to create a super smooth surface.  This takes a lot of time and a lot of sandpaper to get it right.

 

You can now apply or restore panel lines with a scriber and do the same thing for rivets with a needle in a pin vice.  Do it within an hour of applying the CA glue, so that it’s not too hard.  The glue is slightly harder than the plastic, so take care to dig a little bit more within the glue than the plastic to ensure a uniform panel line or rivet.  If you screw up- and you will- apply another drop or two of CA glue and do it all over again.  I have scribed and refilled the same panel line multiple times before I got it right and after some paint, you can’t see any flaws.

 

 

HTH,

Chuck

 

Edited by chuck540z3

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That's an excellent tutorial. Thank you Sir!

 

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Wow, that is a terrific response Chuck. Speaking for I’m sure everyone, it’s very much appreciated you took the time to explain your process. 

 

Cheers

Collin

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I've said it before and I'll say it again; I really admire your attention to detail Chuck.  You've earned every accolade you've received.  Keep it up.  I'll be following.

 

Mike

 

p.s. - will the little roadster be coming out soon?  It'll be another month at least before the Mustang hits the streets.

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Great work, Chuck- and thanks for all the tips!

 

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Thanks Guys!

 

On 3/29/2019 at 6:55 AM, AX 365 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I really admire your attention to detail Chuck.  You've earned every accolade you've received.  Keep it up.  I'll be following.

 

Mike

 

p.s. - will the little roadster be coming out soon?  It'll be another month at least before the Mustang hits the streets.

 

Thanks and same here Mike.  Even on good days there's still too many rocks and salt on the road for the toy to come out and play.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 2:17 PM, chuck540z3 said:

I have been asked how I use CA glue as a filler before...

Great work Chuck! :worship:
And a very nice tutorial on using CA!
I would add one common sense/experience thing that you didn't emphasize:
Because filling, sanding and re-scribing is time sensitive, only work in small areas at a time. Don't get over-ambitious and apply glue to too many or too large an area or you may cause yourself problems.

 

I'm going to try the Great Planes debonder. Thanks for the tip. I use CMK debonder and it also doesn't seem to hurt plastic.
Because it doesn't hurt plastic I am able to do a sloppy job at gluing resin to plastic or visa-versa and then clean up the mess afterwards. Surgical spears (also called eye spears) work great for this. I use the cellulose/paper ones. I haven't tried the PVA foam ones and doubt they would be as effective for this. I got a bunch from my doctor years ago but they can be found online at medical supply places which don't seem to sell to the general public. There are some listed on eBay but they are the foam type and extremely expensive. If anybody knows a good (reasonable price) source for the cellulose type please let us know.

 

:cheers:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zactoman said:

Great work Chuck! :worship:
And a very nice tutorial on using CA!
I would add one common sense/experience thing that you didn't emphasize:
Because filling, sanding and re-scribing is time sensitive, only work in small areas at a time. Don't get over-ambitious and apply glue to too many or too large an area or you may cause yourself problems.

 

I'm going to try the Great Planes debonder. Thanks for the tip. I use CMK debonder and it also doesn't seem to hurt plastic.
Because it doesn't hurt plastic I am able to do a sloppy job at gluing resin to plastic or visa-versa and then clean up the mess afterwards. Surgical spears (also called eye spears) work great for this. I use the cellulose/paper ones. I haven't tried the PVA foam ones and doubt they would be as effective for this. I got a bunch from my doctor years ago but they can be found online at medical supply places which don't seem to sell to the general public. There are some listed on eBay but they are the foam type and extremely expensive. If anybody knows a good (reasonable price) source for the cellulose type please let us know.

 

:cheers:

 

 

Very good point Chris!  If I'm not sure I can sand CA glue within 30-45 minutes, I don't apply it all.  Better to be slow than have glue dry too long, which will become very hard to sand.

 

As for CMK Debonder, I haven't tried that yet, but like you, I can be sloppy with the application of CA glue and not worry about it, because the debonder cleans up any mess easily.

 

I have not tried the "Surgical Spears", mostly because the small microbrushes I buy soak up the glue and apply it in any way I want.  If you want cheap, I buy them in bulk like the link below, which is a bit over $0.02/brush.  If you look for hobby microbrushes they are expensive, but if you look for dental or make-up microbrushes they are much cheaper- and the very same thing!

 

Microbrushes on Amazon

 

Cheers.

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3

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16 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said:

I have not tried the "Surgical Spears", mostly because the small microbrushes I buy soak up the glue and apply it in any way I want.  If you want cheap, I buy them in bulk like the link below, which is a bit over $0.02/brush.  If you look for hobby microbrushes they are expensive, but if you look for dental or make-up microbrushes they are much cheaper- and the very same thing!

 

Microbrushes on Amazon

Thanks Chuck. I'll definitely pick up some microbrushes and give them a try.
Do you also use those for CA cleanup? Cleaning up CA slops is what I was suggesting the spears for, not applying the glue. They are nice in that you can put a drop of debonder on the end and scrub right up to the part. They hold the liquid so it doesn't spread out and soak under parts allowing you to do surface clean up without accidentally debonding the part. They are firm yet soft so you can actually press and polish the surface with them. They're kinda like precision q-tips with no fuzz.

 

:cheers:

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6 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

Thanks Chuck. I'll definitely pick up some microbrushes and give them a try.
Do you also use those for CA cleanup? Cleaning up CA slops is what I was suggesting the spears for, not applying the glue. They are nice in that you can put a drop of debonder on the end and scrub right up to the part. They hold the liquid so it doesn't spread out and soak under parts allowing you to do surface clean up without accidentally debonding the part. They are firm yet soft so you can actually press and polish the surface with them. They're kinda like precision q-tips with no fuzz.

 

:cheers:

 

Yes and no.  For small clean-up, I use the small white brushes, but for larger areas I use the yellow and green microbrushes and sometimes even big Q-tips or a small rag!.  Also, with the debonder I use, I never worry about it debonding a part unless I want it too.  Sometimes if I'm not happy with the bond, I add some debonder to "remelt" the glue, then let it dry again.  No mess and a secure bond!  With other debonders I've tried, this would be impossible and they don't work that well to begin with.

 

Chuck

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Chuck, will you advise what accelerator you use.  I have some of the aerosol kind (Stickfast) I used when making wooden pens on the lathe, but this stuff goes everywhere.  I assume it can be decanted?  It does not seem to affect the plastic on the test mules I have experimented on.

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4 hours ago, JesusNut said:

Chuck, will you advise what accelerator you use.  I have some of the aerosol kind (Stickfast) I used when making wooden pens on the lathe, but this stuff goes everywhere.  I assume it can be decanted?  It does not seem to affect the plastic on the test mules I have experimented on.

 

This is what I use, made by High Performance Distributors.  It works fast, won't harm paint and plastic and unlike many accelerators, it doesn't stink.  I place some of it in a small bottle, then just dip a microbrush in it and apply as required.

 

6tnwG7.jpg

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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