GW8345 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Mstor said: I had read somewhere (some forum) that they used US flares heat signatures when designing the software for the 9X and then they found that they didn't work when used against Russian flares as they had different heat signatures (or some such). It didn't seem very likely to me and I didn't much stock in the "rumor", but this may be where some of this stuff is coming from. Yea, I won't believe that rumor/statement, Raytheon ain't that stupid.👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falconxlvi Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, GW8345 said: Yea, I won't believe that rumor/statement, Raytheon ain't that stupid.👍 Correct. Turns out we’ve been shooting sidewinders at Russian made aircraft for oh...the last 60 years or so. Also, USAF OT&E is a robust process to say the least. Lots of data points to arrive at AIM-9X. Edited January 17, 2019 by Falconxlvi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) On 1/17/2019 at 1:45 AM, Mstor said: I had read somewhere (some forum) that they used US flares heat signatures when designing the software for the 9X and then they found that they didn't work when used against Russian flares as they had different heat signatures (or some such). It didn't seem very likely to me and I didn't much stock in the "rumor", but this may be where some of this stuff is coming from. This is apparently a story from the Constant Peg program (secret testing of procured Soviet aircraft in the 80's) and not a rumor. But, it was apparently about a variant of an AIM-9P and the Soviet flares sourced from a plane shot-down in Afghanistan. http://aviationweek.com/blog/we-didn-t-know-what-90-percent-switches-did Edited January 18, 2019 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 hours ago, ijozic said: This is apparently a story from the Constant Peg program (testing Soviet aircraft in the 80's) and not a rumor. But, it was about a variant of an AIM-9P and the Soviet flares sourced from a plane shot-down in Afghanistan. http://aviationweek.com/blog/we-didn-t-know-what-90-percent-switches-did Interesting article. Thanks. So, that's was the source of the Russian vs USA flares stuff. Based on the article, our people are well aware of the issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alternative 4 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 http://area51trips.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 5:49 PM, Waco said: Pssssh. You think actual experience matters for anything here? This is the INTERNET! What I believe has much greater intrinsic value than actual facts. Given that this is a internet modeling forum, I have no expectation that any of the info posted here is legit. I'm just posting my own thoughts on the subject and was enjoying what I thought was an pretty interesting discussion. On the subject of actual experience, you've made it clear enough that you are the real deal, so join the jamboree, Waco. Why do you think that a variety of US aircraft are all of a sudden now flying in a combat zone with a mix of M's and X's? Just trying to reduce wear and tear on our fleet of AIM-9X's? Just to save the taxpayers a few bucks in case the target is nothing more than a clapped out Su-22 or UAV and not worthy of an X? All very good reasons, do you agree with any of them? I think everyone would love to hear your thoughts on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 8:56 PM, GW8345 said: Yea, I won't believe that rumor/statement, Raytheon ain't that stupid.👍 But apparently those stupid Russians would be incapable of ever developing an effective countermeasure to an American weapon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, 11bee said: On the subject of actual experience, you've made it clear enough that you are the real deal, so join the jamboree, Waco. Why do you think that a variety of US aircraft are all of a sudden now flying in a combat zone with a mix of M's and X's? Just trying to reduce wear and tear on our fleet of AIM-9X's? Just to save the taxpayers a few bucks in case the target is nothing more than a clapped out Su-22 or UAV and not worthy of an X? All very good reasons, do you agree with any of them? I think everyone would love to hear your thoughts on this. Not today, Satan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, 11bee said: But apparently those stupid Russians would be incapable of ever developing an effective countermeasure to an American weapon? That’s not even remotely what he said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, 11bee said: Given that this is a internet modeling forum, I have no expectation that any of the info posted here is legit. Yet you will believe some "expert" on some other website, why, because it fits your narrative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, 11bee said: Given that this is a internet modeling forum, I have no expectation that any of the info posted here is legit. If so, why did you post the question here ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 If you like how sand on a F-15 wing looks, check out pictures of F-16's in Afghanistan. They have some amazing patterns of dust sticking to leaks. I'll do something like that on a F-16 I'm building. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, spejic said: If you like how sand on a F-15 wing looks, check out pictures of F-16's in Afghanistan. They have some amazing patterns of dust sticking to leaks. I'll do something like that on a F-16 I'm building. Wow any more photos? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 5:49 PM, Waco said: Pssssh. You think actual experience matters for anything here? This is the INTERNET! What I believe has much greater intrinsic value than actual facts. BRING BACK REAL AVIATIONZZZ!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Petarvu said: Wow any more photos? Yes, please. Makes me want to do an F-16 just to do that kind of weathering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 17 hours ago, Waco said: Not today, Satan. LOL, That's what I thought your response would be. Very useful, thanks for stopping by. Anyway, barring any additional info from the media or our own experts, this sub-topic has probably run it's course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 10 hours ago, habu2 said: If so, why did you post the question here ? Why does anyone post on the internet Habu? I saw something that interested me and a posted a question on it. All I was implying was that one needs to take everything they read online with a big grain of salt. Just internet basics, that's all. Do you expect to hear the god's honest truth about military technology issues on a forum geared towards building plastic model airplanes? I don't. Some of the answers on this thread were interesting and at times enlightening but I have no expectation that any of it is 100% accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just stop. Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, Collin said: Just stop. Collin +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, 11bee said: Why does anyone post on the internet Habu? I saw something that interested me and a posted a question on it. All I was implying was that one needs to take everything they read online with a big grain of salt. Just internet basics, that's all. Do you expect to hear the god's honest truth about military technology issues on a forum geared towards building plastic model airplanes? I don't. Some of the answers on this thread were interesting and at times enlightening but I have no expectation that any of it is 100% accurate. So you are basically calling those who have actually put hand to steel lairs. I'll keep that in mind the next time you ask an ordnance question. Edited January 20, 2019 by GW8345 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Petarvu said: Wow any more photos? Go to the Air Force image page ( https://www.af.mil/News/Photos/ ) and search for "F-16" and "Afghanistan". You will get plenty of high resolution pictures. And here is the link to the high resolution version of the image I posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 14 hours ago, spejic said: If you like how sand on a F-15 wing looks, check out pictures of F-16's in Afghanistan. They have some amazing patterns of dust sticking to leaks. Also note all the gun blast residue around the gun on the port side of the canopy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 That F-16 in the picture above is absolutely filthy! What a cool build that would make. Thanks for posting. Regards, Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Don said: That F-16 in the picture above is absolutely filthy! What a cool build that would make. Thanks for posting. Regards, Don Then someone will complain the weathering is overdone, nothing in real life looks like that blah blah blah :v Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 If I may add, the sand is not just at ground level. During Desert Storm we (VF-103) had a huge problem with sand getting into the electrics and radar systems of our F-14B while we were flying at 25,000 feet. It is quite possible that the sand you see on the aircraft may have collected on the aircraft while it was flying and not while it was on the ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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