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A380 end of production


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the white elephant is finally dead. the fanbois on the spotter site I belong to are frothing at the mouth and crying themselves to sleep over this one.

honestly I dont understand why. I have seen the beast up close, yeah it's big but we have to shut down a taxiway and 2 major vehicle roads at YVR when the thing shows up.

one of my pilot friends posted "the A380, the plane so expensive even the Arabs couldn't afford it"

in another 10 years a 4 engined airliner will be a thing of the past.

 

 

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1 hour ago, stalal said:

This shows how well Boeing thought out the business growth in aviation industry. They focused their strategy to develop 777 and 787s. 

And the 747-8, which at the last count had about 60% of the A380's sales and has been on the verge of cancellation at least twice.  All this is proof that all businesses make mistakes and many are run by twits.

 

I thought there would be crowing the moment I heard about this.  Why?  How can anyone get so worked up about airliner?  Well, OK, an airliner that's not Concorde ...

 

in another 10 years a 4 engined airliner will be a thing of the past

This is probably true, though.  When you can build engines so big that you can fit other aircraft through the nacelles, and keep them running for twelve hours, four does seem extravagant.

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32 minutes ago, pigsty said:

And the 747-8, which at the last count had about 60% of the A380's sales and has been on the verge of cancellation at least twice.  All this is proof that all businesses make mistakes and many are run by twits.

 

This is probably true, though.  When you can build engines so big that you can fit other aircraft through the nacelles, and keep them running for twelve hours, four does seem extravagant.

For the record, the 747-8 cost only a fraction to develop compared to what the A380 did, so BA can well afford to keep it limping along a while longer, in hopes that the air freight market will rebound.    Kinda ironic that the 747 will likely still be in production after the A380 factory has it's lights shut off for the last time.    

 

This isn't the only case of Airbus totally screwing up a program.   How many A340's are still flying these days?  Anyone remember their pathetic marketing slogan "4 engines for long haul", in an attempt to scare the public from trusting the twin engine 777 for long-haul flights? 

 

 

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A quote from an article on an aviation fan website,

Quote

Airbus’ soon-to-be-retiring CEO Tom Enders said, “This was a joint decision. We cannot run after illusions and we have to take the only sensible decision and stop this program.”

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/02/14/airbus-to-finally-cancel-a380-production-line-in-2021/

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18 hours ago, 11bee said:

For the record, the 747-8 cost only a fraction to develop compared to what the A380 did, so BA can well afford to keep it limping along a while longer, in hopes that the air freight market will rebound.    Kinda ironic that the 747 will likely still be in production after the A380 factory has it's lights shut off for the last time.    

 

This isn't the only case of Airbus totally screwing up a program.   How many A340's are still flying these days?  Anyone remember their pathetic marketing slogan "4 engines for long haul", in an attempt to scare the public from trusting the twin engine 777 for long-haul flights? 

 

 

 

If you have travelled long distance in a 777 and A340, the difference in comfort and in accommodation is quite big. 777 is roomier and expansive compared to 340 which feels claustrophobic. A340 not a great plane for long distance journey.

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I don't know much about the A380 other than the obvious.  Question for you experts.

 

What's happening with the existing A380s?

Are airlines retiring fleets of these?

What was the main reason(s) for the failure of the aircraft itself for current operators?

Edited by Jonathan S
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5 minutes ago, Jonathan S said:

I don't know much about the A380 other than the obvious.  Question for you experts.

 

What's happening with the existing A380s?

Are airlines retiring fleets of these?

What was the main reason(s) for the failure of the aircraft itself for current operators?

Why poll the experts when a couple minutes in Google will find articles which have already answered all those.

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18 hours ago, 11bee said:

For the record, the 747-8 cost only a fraction to develop compared to what the A380 did, so BA can well afford to keep it limping along a while longer, in hopes that the air freight market will rebound.    Kinda ironic that the 747 will likely still be in production after the A380 factory has it's lights shut off for the last time.    

 

This isn't the only case of Airbus totally screwing up a program.   How many A340's are still flying these days?  Anyone remember their pathetic marketing slogan "4 engines for long haul", in an attempt to scare the public from trusting the twin engine 777 for long-haul flights? 

 

 

I wouldn't describe the A340 as a total screw up , I still see them on a regular basis around the world. As for the A380 factory shutting it's lights off for the last time , it'll be re-tooled for another Airbus version.  The only reason the 747-8 is going is the cargo version because it has been a relative failure with only 47 passenger version sold.

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2 minutes ago, southwestforests said:

Why poll the experts when a couple minutes in Google will find articles which have already answered all those.

Tried Google first actually, didn't find anything about what I was looking fro and want opinions of you guys.  Sorry I asked.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Jonathan S said:

I don't know much about the A380 other than the obvious.  Question for you experts.

 

What's happening with the existing A380s?

Are airlines retiring fleets of these?

What was the main reason(s) for the failure of the aircraft itself or current operators?

They'll still be used by existing operators with the possible exception of Malaysian Airlines who are looking to get rid of their fleet.The main reasons for the failure are that it's relatively expensive to operate fuel wise when there are twin engined airliners which carry almost as much for a lower cost although the aircraft does have it's uses for slot constrained airports . The A380 is also relatively restricted as to where it operates as it needs widened taxiways and modified airport infrastructure to support it. The aircraft's cargo capacity is relatively limited compared to say the Boeing 777-300.

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2 minutes ago, Jonathan S said:

Tried Google first actually, didn't find anything about what I was looking fro and want opinions of you guys.  Sorry I asked.  

 

Unless the people here are simultaneously employed in the management of multiple airlines those same articles are what they will be referencing for forming their opinions.

 

Here's a couple articles for reference as to reasons,

Quote

 

"Advancements in technology meant that twin-engine planes such as the Boeing Dreamliner 787 and the Airbus A350 were more economically feasible on long-haul routes compared to the fuel-guzzling plane with at least 500 seats that few carriers could operate at full capacity."

...

"Adding to the program's issues is the lack of a strong second-hand market for the jets. Much like the Concorde, the A380's demise was brought on more by airline economics rather than its popularity among passengers and aviation enthusiasts."

 


https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/why-the-end-of-the-a380-superjumbo-is-no-surprise-1.826104


 

Quote

 

After years in crisis mode, the decision to stop production of the world’s largest civil aircraft does not come as a surprise. But having to cancel the multi-billion project little over 18 years after it was launched in December 2000 shows how much Airbus was off in its demand forecast for very large aircraft. Instead of the around 1,500 orders for aircraft in the category that Airbus expected over 20 years, only a fraction materialized.


 

 

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/airbus-terminating-a380-program-2021

Quote

 

"Editor's Pick16,729 viewsOct 5, 2017, 08:25pm
Operating Costs Killing Jumbo Jets As Airlines Profit From Smaller Planes

...

However, these may ultimately be meaningless distinctions, as the airlines have realized that bigger isn’t necessarily better. Since the A380's first flight in 2005, only 215 of the huge planes have been delivered, 97 of them to Emirates Airlines. The A380 has been repeatedly characterized as a money-loser for Airbus Industries.

What is KO’ing the current kings of the sky isn’t mechanical issues or shifting passenger preferences (who wouldn’t prefer a giant comfy plane with a bar?) but that age-old culprit, the dismal science of economics."

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2017/10/05/operating-costs-killing-jumbo-jets-as-airlines-profit-from-smaller-planes/#3086bef5336a

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12 minutes ago, southwestforests said:

Unless the people here are simultaneously employed in the management of multiple airlines those same articles are what they will be referencing for forming their opinions. 

 

Here's a couple articles for reference as to reasons,


https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/why-the-end-of-the-a380-superjumbo-is-no-surprise-1.826104


 

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/airbus-terminating-a380-program-2021

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2017/10/05/operating-costs-killing-jumbo-jets-as-airlines-profit-from-smaller-planes/#3086bef5336a

Excellent, Thanks


I must say that I too dislike when people don't google basics, but I did try on this one and mostly found stuff about reminiscing.

 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan S
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19 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They'll still be used by existing operators with the possible exception of Malaysian Airlines who are looking to get rid of their fleet.The main reasons for the failure are that it's relatively expensive to operate fuel wise when there are twin engined airliners which carry almost as much for a lower cost although the aircraft does have it's uses for slot constrained airports . The A380 is also relatively restricted as to where it operates as it needs widened taxiways and modified airport infrastructure to support it. The aircraft's cargo capacity is relatively limited compared to say the Boeing 777-300.

Yes, this is what I wanted to read.  All articles I saw were from the manufacturer's stand point.  Thanks!

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11 hours ago, Stephen said:

I wouldn't describe the A340 as a total screw up , I still see them on a regular basis around the world. As for the A380 factory shutting it's lights off for the last time , it'll be re-tooled for another Airbus version.  The only reason the 747-8 is going is the cargo version because it has been a relative failure with only 47 passenger version sold.

If you think that somehow the A340 is a successful program, more power to you.  It was horribly uneconomical, which resulted in most major airlines discarding them well before the end of their lifespan.   

 

I've yet to see any indication in the press that the A380 factory will remain operational but given how heavily they are subsidized by the French / German governments, I wouldn't be surprised if they figured out a way to keep it open.   I'm actually shocked that they made the decision to shut down the program, vrs just throwing additional millions at it solely to keep the workers employed.

 

With regard to the -8, nothing wrong with just selling cargo variants, even at a lower production rate of 6 airframes/month, it's still making a profit for BA and the longer it's production line is still active, the better the chance that they will snag some significant orders when the market for oversized freighters rebounds.   If nothing else, the -8 will have the honor of being the next AF-1.   As far as "only" selling 47 passenger versions, keep in mind that means 47 less orders for the A380, which AB would probably kill to have on their books right now....

 

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5 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

wow, airbus dislike is palpable here 🙂 lol. 

Lol sorry but if it helps you’ll find plenty of other sites that are well stocked with AB fans.  

 

For the record - It’s not all bad news for these guys, despite the pride of Europe being scrapped.  They are going to make up the loss of A380’s with a very substantial A330/350 order from Emirates.  The A330 order is especially welcome since that’s another program that was seriously underperforming.   

 

Also - given the generous terms of the subsidies from their home countries, AB now doesn’t have to pay back any of the billions of Euros given them to fund development of this beast.  

 

 

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But there again, what airport could you fly all 800 to that could accommodate an A380?  One landed at Denver one time, but none of the gates or jetways could handle it.  And it's not trivial to modify runways and taxiways for such a big aircraft, along with jetways.  I think it really needs two jetways to disembark passengers, although I could be wrong on that.  And it's ground footprint is pretty big, too.

 

Had not economics got in the way, it would have been a great airplane.  It's an technological achievement, regardless.

 

Tom

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I must say, from my perspective I'm quite sad. Since I live in South Africa, I do a lot of long-distance business trips. Depending on the airline I fly with, it is usually an A330, A340, A380, B777 or B787. The A380 is operated here by British Airways, Air France, Lufthansa and Emirates, so I see them daily. I'm often forced to fly economy, so I've become quite picky about choosing the more comfortable airlines and aircraft. Among the ones I've listed, my favourite is definitely the A380, followed closely by the B787, then a bit of a gap to the B777 with the rest following quite far behind. The 787 is seldom an option since I believe only Qatar currently operates it here - although I have flown with them quite a few times and also on onward  flights across Europe and was generally quite impressed.

 

The reason for my distinct preference for the A380 is that it seems no matter which airline you fly with, the A380 seat pitch and space in general always seems a bit more comfortable than any other aircraft. I'm afraid that, no matter what aircraft is used to replace the A380, I personally will end up in a more cramped position when on those long economy class flights. The A380 is also extremely quiet inside - considerably more so than any of the others that I listed except, perhaps, again for the B787 that seems fairly similar. After a 10 to 12 hour flight, I always feel a little more rested than when I used one of the others. The worst is the A330 and A340 - it may just be an airline thing, but after the typical Johannesburg to Abu Dhabi A330 flight in economy, I usually feel like I need a week to recover.

 

I also certainly will miss watching the A380's coming in to land when I drive to work in the mornings - because of the size they always appear like they are flying just a little too slow - it really is a very impressive sight.

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I work for Air Canada..... the 4 engine aircraft is a thing of the past here. The 787 has been the perfect aircraft for us behind the 777.... our other darling has been the medium range A330...... awesome cargo hauler. We like it so much we bought 4 more from Singapore..... through TAP. The 747-8 is great looking and I wish there would be more but economics just backs the duel engine aircraft. Our 777-300 make so much money it's scary when you add the PAX rev to it.

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11 hours ago, wxltcol said:

But there again, what airport could you fly all 800 to that could accommodate an A380?  One landed at Denver one time, but none of the gates or jetways could handle it.  And it's not trivial to modify runways and taxiways for such a big aircraft, along with jetways.  I think it really needs two jetways to disembark passengers, although I could be wrong on that.  And it's ground footprint is pretty big, too.

 

Had not economics got in the way, it would have been a great airplane.  It's an technological achievement, regardless.

 

Tom

My airline uses three jettys to disembark an A380, we can do it with two but three is preferred.

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Wow, Stephen!  I didn't realize you'd need three!  Well, it does carry a lot of people...

 

Mfezi, it's so majestic in the air!  I'm always fascinated to watch a big aircraft seemingly just float slowly along.  Sad those days are ending; the 747 always seems to float, too.

 

Tom

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