BaconRaygun Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 As the title suggests, what do you fine people do to model discharge wicks? I purchased and installed the Masters brass wicks on my 1:48 Su-35 build. They do look much better than what came with the kit, but looking at reference shots, they are just too long. From a scale perspective, they still look like they are 2 feet long when in reality they protrude maybe 8-10 inches. They are also super fragile... but I guess that doesn't matter too much. I was thinking fishing line may work well for ease of installation and durability, but not so much for realism. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I know some come with a long leader for pinning. Does this need to be done here? Do you have photos? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Sorry not the best image, but its an image. You may have to download the image to zoom. In this image, only the vertical and horizontal stabs have them installed. Wings only have the holes drilled. They do have a leader for pinning (or rather the blunt end is longer, to be used in this manner) but there are 2 issues. 1- The hole is around 1.5mm deep. If I go deeper, there is not much margin for error... I will drill through the wing. I can go deeper on the main wings, but the horizontal and vertical stabs have little bumps where the wicks attach. Drilling further I will probably drill right through the tail end of that bump. All of that is irrelevant because... 2- Even if I insert the wick all the way in, up to the point where it begins to taper... (which is maybe another .5 mm) it will still be far too long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Don't know if this will help, but I find it easier to file a groove or channel in the place where items like this would go. If the wings are molded in upper and lower halves, I would put the groove in place before gluing the wings together. Same with the stabilizers, but they aren't always molded as 2 pieces so drilling is sometimes the only option. After you glue the wings together it needs some attention to get the hole cleaned up but much easier than drilling into a very thin edge. HTH By the way, nice looking SU! Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I use fine nylon bristles from cleaning brush a tooth brush or similar. I drill a #87 hole at the attachment point and put them in place with thin CA next I cut them to length and finally paint. They work great and are almost un-damageable ...🙃 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 hours ago, BaconRaygun said: Sorry not the best image, but its an image. You may have to download the image to zoom. In this image, only the vertical and horizontal stabs have them installed. Wings only have the holes drilled. They do have a leader for pinning (or rather the blunt end is longer, to be used in this manner) but there are 2 issues. 1- The hole is around 1.5mm deep. If I go deeper, there is not much margin for error... I will drill through the wing. I can go deeper on the main wings, but the horizontal and vertical stabs have little bumps where the wicks attach. Drilling further I will probably drill right through the tail end of that bump. All of that is irrelevant because... 2- Even if I insert the wick all the way in, up to the point where it begins to taper... (which is maybe another .5 mm) it will still be far too long. I can't see the image but if they are too long for you to use, you may want to grind or cut the stems shorter, but don't go overboard. This link may be helpful: https://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/sukhoi-static-dischargers 9 hours ago, viper730 said: I use fine nylon bristles from cleaning brush a tooth brush or similar. I drill a #87 hole at the attachment point and put them in place with thin CA next I cut them to length and finally paint. They work great and are almost un-damageable ...🙃 Agree with this type of technique too, but the Flanker family dischargers have a distinctive shape. I use your technique for US aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 10 hours ago, viper730 said: I use fine nylon bristles from cleaning brush a tooth brush or similar. I drill a #87 hole at the attachment point and put them in place with thin CA next I cut them to length and finally paint. They work great and are almost un-damageable ...🙃 ^^^^ What he said, toothbrush bristles. Look at the kids brushes, they have all manner of colors...black even. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 55 minutes ago, Jonathan S said: I can't see the image but if they are too long for you to use, you may want to grind or cut the stems shorter, but don't go overboard. This link may be helpful: https://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/sukhoi-static-dischargers Agree with this type of technique too, but the Flanker family dischargers have a distinctive shape. I use your technique for US aircraft. I think I see what happened... I purchased the incorrect discharge wicks. Looks like I got the ones for older soviet jets. I'll just order the correct ones. Tooth brush bristles is definitely a good solution in many cases, but not for Russian jets, unfortunately. Fluorocarbon fly fishing leaders are also a great choice. Thanks for the tips everybody! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, BaconRaygun said: I think I see what happened... I purchased the incorrect discharge wicks. Looks like I got the ones for older soviet jets. I'll just order the correct ones. Tooth brush bristles is definitely a good solution in many cases, but not for Russian jets, unfortunately. Fluorocarbon fly fishing leaders are also a great choice. Thanks for the tips everybody! Indeed, fly fishing line is what I use as well for US aircraft. All the best on this project. Flanker families offer a unique build and not recommended for novice building :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Thanks! It's actually almost finished... just doing weathering, final details and some touch up work. I would classify myself as a novice builder. This model has definitely proven to be quite a challenge for me. This is my first "real" build getting back into the hobby after building models as a kid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BaconRaygun said: Thanks! It's actually almost finished... just doing weathering, final details and some touch up work. I would classify myself as a novice builder. This model has definitely proven to be quite a challenge for me. This is my first "real" build getting back into the hobby after building models as a kid. Now I can see the photo above for whatever reason. Looking good! Better than novice skills for sure. I have the GWH version of this kit and plan on starting it in 2020. Edited February 22, 2019 by Jonathan S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Right on man. This is the GWH kit... so I know what you're in for. Definitely a pleasing build. Enjoy yours when you get to it! -Igor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 hours ago, BaconRaygun said: Right on man. This is the GWH kit... so I know what you're in for. Definitely a pleasing build. Enjoy yours when you get to it! -Igor I've heard such good things, thinking of buying a 2nd one and modifying back to the prototype Bort 902. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Watch Doogs build up video of this kit, will help prevent decal issues. I used my decals from this kit for weapons on my Su-33. Worked well as the decal film have a bit of a white tone so doesn't show up on white munitions. I've purchased the Begemont set and it looks amazing. A bit pricey till you see how good it is and then you realize it isn't pricey at all considering. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, BaconRaygun said: Sorry not the best image, but its an image. You may have to download the image to zoom. In this image, only the vertical and horizontal stabs have them installed. Wings only have the holes drilled. They do have a leader for pinning (or rather the blunt end is longer, to be used in this manner) but there are 2 issues. 1- The hole is around 1.5mm deep. If I go deeper, there is not much margin for error... I will drill through the wing. I can go deeper on the main wings, but the horizontal and vertical stabs have little bumps where the wicks attach. Drilling further I will probably drill right through the tail end of that bump. All of that is irrelevant because... 2- Even if I insert the wick all the way in, up to the point where it begins to taper... (which is maybe another .5 mm) it will still be far too long. I used them both in 32nd and 48th scale. 32nd are ~3.5mm long altogether and with 1.5mm mounting hole it leaves 2mm or 64mm scaled to real size. 64mm is 1.33mm in 1/48 so with 1mm for mounting it gives 2.33mm. As seen on the picture below, the small wick is about this size. Thus, first, there is no problem with Master wicks, I really can't imagine where 2 feet fugure came from (64mm is about 2.5" or 1/5') Second, if you 1.5mm hole is per instruction, you probably used 1/32 wicks on a 1/48 model. Here is the picture of both: Edited February 22, 2019 by Helmsman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) @Jonathan S I did watch every second of his flankoff before I dug in... and it definitely helped quite a bit. Way to go, Doogs. I did get the begemot decals too but I was not impressed. Not sure if maybe I got a knockoff or something, but the decal sheet i got from them was not a legit Su-35 sheet... it looks more like an Su-27 sheet with some modifications (the drawing in the instructions is an Su-27). Some of the decals were flat out incorrect when compared to the reference shots that I have. But then again, the same goes for the stock decals. In the end I ended up using a combination of Begemot and stock decals. I did like how they (begemot) went down. The carrier film is very thin and it didnt take much to get them to suck into details. The ones that were correct were great though. For weapons I went with the Eduard resin parts because I was not thrilled with the weapons that came in the box. I guess the weapons in the box were independent from the tooling of the actual kit... and it shows. After spending an hour and a half on one R-77 I was still not happy with it, so i caved and got the eduard set, which was a challenge in its own right. I'm only using two R-77s and two R-73s because that's all I see in the reference shots of Red 25. Might add the R-27s at some point. Oh ya, used the decals that came with the missiles. Edited February 22, 2019 by BaconRaygun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Helmsman said: I used them both in 32nd and 48th scale. 32nd are ~3.5mm long altogether and with 1.5mm mounting hole it leaves 2mm or 64mm scaled to real size. 64mm is 1.33mm in 1/48 so with 1mm for mounting it gives 2.33mm. Thus, first, there is no problem with Master wicks, I really can't imagine where 2 feet fugure came from (64mm is about 2.5" or 1/5') Second, if you 1.5mm hole is per instruction, you probably used 1/32 wicks on a 1/48 model. Here is the picture of both: Helmsman, I already addressed this a few posts up. I did not get the 1:32 set... I got the 1:48 set for older soviet jets by mistake. They are far longer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Right, this could have happened, old Sukhois had longer dischargers, but still not 10". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 You're reading way too far into this man. I said "look like," not "precisely 2 ft long." It was a slight exaggeration combined with absolutely no math. In reality, they stick out about 3 times more than what I see in reference shots. So not 2 feet... but maybe 10 inches or so. Compare this to the 2.5" figure that you mention... can you see why I may have exaggerated a bit? I don't exactly have a flanker sitting around that i can walk up to with a tape measure. The only static wicks that I have seen in person in my adult life are those on small gen aviation aircraft and airliners (which are actually quite long). When I was a kid, walking around real actual flankers back in the motherland... I had no idea what the hell a static discharge wick was, so I did not pay attention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I don't have a Flanker either, what a pity. But I did work on Su-15 and studied Yak-28 in training unit some 30 years ago 🙂. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 That's pretty cool my friend. I basically grew up on the Chkalov aircraft factory (chkalovsky zavod) in Novosibirsk in the 1980s. Grandma and great aunt were engineers and took me to work with them... best preschool ever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 The correct wicks came in the mail today and I'm in the middle of the delicate process of replacing them. ...looks much better. Old ones are on the left. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Master produced two sets of Sukhoy static dischargers. It was not easy to convince Master to do the second set (the one specially for Su-27 family) but in the end he did it. For the design of the dischargers an original Su-27 was measured in detail. I sent over the data and Master transferred all the information into the miniature brass parts that he is producing. They are right in size to the micron but this is also a problem since they are so very small. I was astonished when first received the test for the 72nd scale dischargers. One needs a microscope for them. :)) The decals on G.W.H kit. It was not an easy going process. A lot of problems was encountered with the printers. Personally I am not very happy with the final result. A lot of research went into the design of the G.W.H decal and apart from 2 or 3 decals the ones on the sheet are all 100% replicas of the original stencils both in style and in text. Since I was working on the decals from outside Russia had absolutely no problem in reproducing the original text. As far as I know inside Russia those stencils are still considered to be a secret, so if I was there it would not have been possible to add them to the G.W.H kit! With the kit the aim was to give as full, as authentic and as complete stencils as possible. The Begemote decals are excellent, but they are general stencils and in many cases do not correspond with the real Su-35S stencils. But who is going to read them anyway, so . . . :)))) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan S Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, ya-gabor said: Master produced two sets of Sukhoy static dischargers. It was not easy to convince Master to do the second set (the one specially for Su-27 family) but in the end he did it. For the design of the dischargers an original Su-27 was measured in detail. I sent over the data and Master transferred all the information into the miniature brass parts that he is producing. They are right in size to the micron but this is also a problem since they are so very small. I was astonished when first received the test for the 72nd scale dischargers. One needs a microscope for them. :)) The decals on G.W.H kit. It was not an easy going process. A lot of problems was encountered with the printers. Personally I am not very happy with the final result. A lot of research went into the design of the G.W.H decal and apart from 2 or 3 decals the ones on the sheet are all 100% replicas of the original stencils both in style and in text. Since I was working on the decals from outside Russia had absolutely no problem in reproducing the original text. As far as I know inside Russia those stencils are still considered to be a secret, so if I was there it would not have been possible to add them to the G.W.H kit! With the kit the aim was to give as full, as authentic and as complete stencils as possible. The Begemote decals are excellent, but they are general stencils and in many cases do not correspond with the real Su-35S stencils. But who is going to read them anyway, so . . . :)))) Best regards Gabor Which is the correct skew number for the Master 1/48 Flanker family static dischargers. Was definitely going to use the decal placement chart that comes with the GHW instructions. Will now have to carefully balance that with the kit offerings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaconRaygun Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Gabor, My only real issues with the decals in the box were the carrier film. I noticed a couple that looked a little off... but I am by no means an expert on the subject. If it wasn't for the film, I would have never bothered with the begemot decals. With the begemot decals, it wasn't just the text (though I have to give it to them, that text it actual text and I can read it with a microscope), some of the decals were just completely different than what I see in reference shots. For example, the white square decal with the red X that goes on the front gear door. The begemot version was all wrong... too large, wrong shape, text not spaced correctly. That's just one that really stood out so I remembered it specifically. I think they can, if they wanted to, modify a few of the decals to make them a little more accurate in shape. If I can notice it from the limited photos that I can find on the net, then I think they have enough info to do the job. I dont particularly care what the text says, just as long as the lines of text resemble what I see in photos. Anyway, I'm not here to pick them apart and I don't want people to perceive this as bashing. As actual decals, I thought they were great. Good detail, super thin but strong film, and my god the whole set is pretty extensive overall. I only wish they didn't advertise it as being super accurate... but I get it, that's marketing. Oh ya, they also could have provided more hoist-point decals. There were not enough on the sheet. I only used the ones that matched the decals in the box. For the rest, I used the ones that came with the kit. I finished up installing the correct Master wicks last night. It was a delicate process, but I managed to get it done without any issues. Looks fantastic. They are spot on. Good job getting them to make these, Gabor. Edited February 27, 2019 by BaconRaygun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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