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jabow

Gun Nose for Great Wall's T-33A???

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Does anyone make a replacement Gun Nose for this T-33A kit??  I've checked several known resin manufacturers and Zippo!!  The replacement nose would need extensions on each side the covers muzzle of aft .50 cals.  And of course a gun sight like Monogram's F-80C.

Seems it would be a given for this kit???  Ya think??  T-Birds in Korea would be so configured.

Bo

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No such thing as a gun nosed T-33, no T-33's in Korea they were trainers.

ken

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10 hours ago, KenM said:

No such thing as a gun nosed T-33, no T-33's in Korea they were trainers.

ken

Well, at least 1 was there. It was lost on a Ferry Flight from K-13 to Japan on 6 SEP 52 (Flame-out).  Tail No, 49-982, Capt John Cartmill was the pilot.

For a FACT, they weren't engaged in direct combat. I understood they were used as Area Familiarization birds for new, in country pilots. I sure don't know for sure, but I'd bet it was ARMED with .50 MG in the nose!!  For a FACT, early T-33 DID have provisions to install .50 MGs.

And I'm guessing, that most, if not ALL F-80 Fighter Bomber Sqds had at least one???  Other will know more.

Bo

Edited by jabow
added info

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Quick google search suggests that the early production versions had provisions for 2 - 50 cal .  These seem to have been used in Korea with at least the 51FW.

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Back to the topic at hand.  Who's gonna be the first to make a resin replacement T-33A Gun Nose with sight for pilot???

 

Bo

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The Hobbycraft T-33 has the 2 gun nose, should be able to find one cheap enough and graft the nose on if you choose to go that route.  Just a thought.

 

John 

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Aw Come On!! It isn't that hard to add a couple gun ports. Or just graft on an F-80 nose and eliminate the upper guns.

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10 hours ago, nfiler said:

Aw Come On!! It isn't that hard to add a couple gun ports. Or just graft on an F-80 nose and eliminate the upper guns.

I'm NOT totally sure that the T-Birds in Korean didn't have all six .50 Cal in the nose.  I know that Lockheed did put two MGs in the nose for Foreign sells???  T-Birds did have provisions for six .50 Cals.  (Even models have six ports covered.)  IIRC, the two gun configuration wasn't .50 Cals????

Anyway, just wondered if some enterprising Resin person, didn't already have drop in replacements that included sight????

Bo

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Lots of "I know" in this thread. 😉

 

Only 2x.50 cals appear to be the standard config, IF they were fitted. But the cutaway drawing below references up to 6. There was space, but since it was a trainer, 2 filled the gunnery requirement. Maybe some of the foreign users fitted all 6, for various conflicts. Sounds like you'll be doing some scratch-building or kit bashing. Academy's T-33 also had the gun port option. 

Lockheed T-33A Shooting Star Cutaway Drawing

 

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28 minutes ago, ST0RM said:

Lots of "I know" in this thread. 😉

 

Only 2x.50 cals appear to be the standard config, IF they were fitted. But the cutaway drawing below references up to 6. There was space, but since it was a trainer, 2 filled the gunnery requirement. Maybe some of the foreign users fitted all 6, for various conflicts. Sounds like you'll be doing some scratch-building or kit bashing. Academy's T-33 also had the gun port option. 

Lockheed T-33A Shooting Star Cutaway Drawing

 

LOL!!!  This reminds me of my Tech Pub days.  Illustration and Legend don't agree!!  Illustration shows two guns and legend has (6) after.50 Cal MG!!  LOL!!! Somewhere I read they were 12.7mm Brownings machine guns????

Bo

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I arrived at the T Bird world a bit late for the Korean War era, (1956). Saw a lot of them initially, and then pretty regularly for the next few years. Every Base Flight had a few. This is working from memory, so not something to nail to the wall and call fact, but every one I ever saw only had provisions for the two lower .50s. The nose of both the T-33 and F-80 probably came out of the factory identical. Why would you change it? There are a lot of photos showing T-33s with only the lower  gun ports open with the other four skinned over. And there are a lot of photos with just the two lower ports open and the rest of the nose clean. But I cannot find any photos of a T Bird with all six ports open. I did find a couple photos of T-33s during the Korean war. They both had only the two lower gun ports and one was armed with the lower .50 and one was not.

All the ones I saw still had the left and right ammunition cans installed, but electronics boxes all over the rest of the nose compartment. Those ammo cans was where all the "junk" got stuffed. Our fighter squadron flying F-100s did not own a two seat airplane so we used base flights T-birds when needed. None of those were armed.  I kinda remember some weight in there to compensate for the removed guns and ammo cans. to maintain the center of gravity.

 

 

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Ur up on it as good as any!!  Sure alot more than I am!!   Photo above has drop wing tanks.  What's your memory on that???

That could be another Item for resin???

Bo

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Jabow,

I had to dig out some old (very) references to figure it all out.  The initial title of the T-Bird was of course TP-80C "The armament was reduced to two Browning M3 .50 caliber machine guns with 300 rounds per gun installed in the lower nose bay, with a K-14 gun sight mounted upon the instrument shroud in the front cockpit." Since almost all of the T-33s initially went to Air Training Command, the guns quickly disappeared I suspect. And when they eventually were transferred to all kinds of other duties unless there was a very specific need to reinstall the guns I suspect most never saw the guns again. At one time there were some AT-33s with guns installed, but again only two.

The photo above is a very early bird. In fact is the 111th one built. If you look close there are no headrests on the seats which sez no ejection seats. Both the ejection seats and the bigger center- of- the- wing tip tanks showed up rather quickly. The T-Bird shared a common wing with the F-80 and it looks to me like F-80s converted from the bottom of the wing tip about early 1952. I suspect the T-33s would have been updated at the same time.

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