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Scott Taylor

Air-to-Air Combat Between India and Pakistan

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10 hours ago, stalal said:

 

All Pakistan Air Force F-16s are now upgraded to Block 52 standard. Those were upgraded in Turkey. 

Nope, the ADF versions they bought second hand from Jordan are still in ADF configuration. Only the block 15 OCU's have been updated to MLU standard so far. The ADF version and the MLU version have different antennnas in front of the cockpit so they are easy to spot. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Look at the map where AIM-120 was recovered. 

 

 

 

 

 

The Indian Air Chief looks so smug and dejected announcing recovery of missile. The discovery of exploded missile is also an inadvertent admission that it did hit some aircraft.

 

Edited by stalal

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3 hours ago, stalal said:

 

The Indian Air Chief looks so smug and dejected announcing recovery of missile. The discovery of exploded missile is also an inadvertent admission that it did hit some aircraft.

 

Why do you say that?   It could have missed entirely and traveled quite a ways ballistically before hitting the ground (no idea if these things have a self-destruct feature).   Could have exploded and missed its target.  Or could have hit it.  You are simply guessing.  

 

BTW - is it possible to look smug and dejected at the same time?   

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If Pakistan did use US supplied F-16s and AIM-120s, it could be in violation of agreements made with Pakistan against the use of these weapons in conflicts with India. I have read that India's armed forces are woefully out of date and under-funded. In comparison, Pakistan's armed forces are more up to date. This recent incident seems to bear that out, though I suppose one incident is really not enough to go on. Certainly sounds like an embarrassing situation for India though.

In any case, let's hope they cool things down. As mentioned, the last thing we need is open conflict between two nuclear states.

 

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18 hours ago, 11bee said:

Why do you say that?   It could have missed entirely and traveled quite a ways ballistically before hitting the ground (no idea if these things have a self-destruct feature).   Could have exploded and missed its target.  Or could have hit it.  You are simply guessing.

 

85-90km is within the range of a AIM-120C.

 

 

-Gregg

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It is obvious an F-16 shot everything down 😁 too much smokescreening going on! 

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32 minutes ago, stalal said:

Here is NY TImes today saying what I said two ago from my sources. India lost it and is humiliated by a much smaller adversary. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/world/asia/india-military-united-states-china.html

That NYT article is pretty interesting.   Basically sounds like the Indian military is grossly over staffed due to being something like a national jobs program.    This is at the expense of truly modernizing their hardware.  

 

I wouldn’t write  off the Indian AF though.  One lost MiG-21 doesn’t exactly equal a “humiliating” defeat.   By most accounts, the Indians are professionals and seemed pretty competent when they have trained with American pilots at various exercises.    

 

If they are professionals, they’ll look at what just happened and learn from it.   Pros don’t make the same mistake twice.  

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Posted (edited)

India is perceived as a rising power. Its feted across the world having big market. There are preparations to stand it up against China as American ally. This worldwide praise has made India a bully in the region. Pakistan taught this bully a lesson. Its a humiliation to have lost 2 aircraft in a battle initiated a much smaller adversary which also gave a notice a day before of a retaliatory action.  You may still not see it as such unless you have regional perspective. 

 

Edited by stalal

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Pretty ironic timing:

 

 

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15 hours ago, stalal said:

India is perceived as a rising power. Its feted across the world having big market. There are preparations to stand it up against China as American ally. This worldwide praise has made India a bully in the region. Pakistan taught this bully a lesson. Its a humiliation to have lost 2 aircraft in a battle initiated a much smaller adversary which also gave a notice a day before of a retaliatory action.  You may still not see it as such unless you have regional perspective. 

 

What does Pakistani kool aid taste like?  

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Thank you 11B, starting to get a little stupid!

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4 hours ago, 11bee said:

What does Pakistani kool aid taste like?  

 

Little known fact, the incident that the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" derives from, The Jim Jones Massacre, Flavor-Aid, was actually used.

 

-Gregg

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4 hours ago, 11bee said:

What does Pakistani kool aid taste like?  

 

Roflmao!

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6 hours ago, 11bee said:

What does Pakistani kool aid taste like?  

:rofl:

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5 hours ago, GreyGhost said:

 

Little known fact, the incident that the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" derives from, The Jim Jones Massacre, Flavor-Aid, was actually used.

 

-Gregg

To dive further down the morbid trivia well, wasn’t the beverage in question grape-flavored?  

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22 minutes ago, 11bee said:

To dive further down the morbid trivia well, wasn’t the beverage in question grape-flavored?  

 

I do believe you're correct Sir! 

 

-Gregg

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A quick search shows you can actually buy Kool Aid in Pakistan.....🥤

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Posted (edited)

I know these guys get slagged on a fair amount but they did a somewhat interesting article on this issue.

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26880/enough-with-the-indian-mig-21-bison-versus-pakistani-f-16-viper-bullshit

 

Not really any new info but they debunk some of the silly claims being kicked around by those who have agendas.    Also, they spend a bit of time discussing the MiG-21 Bison.   If you believe their take on it, this little aircraft was at least partially responsible for a good number of F-15 / EW upgrades that the USAF implemented in the last decade or so.

 

 

 

Edited by 11bee

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I read that last night and agree, it was a great article regarding the Cope India exercises, the Bison and the Eagle. I also found it amusing how "eloquently" Rogoway wrote about the propaganda machines spewing misinformation about the Pakistan/India dogfight.

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Although qualified comments from many places, the only evidence I don't see is the wreckage of the PAF F-16 supposedly shot down. Everyone has a mobile phone with camera these days, and one would assume that someone filmed or took photos of the wreckage regardless of where it went down. But nothing has come to light. From this, I personally doubt the F-16 shootdown. 

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17 hours ago, stalal said:

 

You probably don't want to use a Russian propaganda website as an information source.

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