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Stalker6recon

Need resin tips, badly...

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Hello all,

 

I have been combing the forums looking for info on how to work with resin and PE, but the search results come back with everything but the info I am looking for. Not sure if my terms are proper, or I am using the wrong method, but I am still new and have a lot to learn.

 

Anyway, for my first build in more than thirty years, I really challenged myself. I bought two OH-6's that I am converting via CMK resin, one as a gunship, the other with running boards to carry troops outside. The resin replaces the entire interior of the helicopters that come with the kit, and includes PE.

 

Needless to say, I have never used either resin or PE before, they came after my time. I have also scoured the internet looking for info, but mostly found gundam stuff, what ever that is.

 

Anyway, the resin parts are tiny and attached to a resin block, and before I go tearing into the resin with a chainsaw, I thought I would see if anyone could give me advice on what to use to remove the parts without damaging them. (is it me, or are resin parts even more fragile than their plastic counterparts, maybe it is the weight, or lack there of). I also have a nice set of resin nozzles and PE NASES II seats for my twin F-18F hasegawa kits. When I got those tiny seats that need to be folded up like origami, I knew that I need to buy a PE bending tool before even attempting to build those. Is there a good parts bender that won't break the bank, or recommedations?

 

How about the proper tools to remove resin from those blocks? Can I use Tamiya etra thin cement to glue these parts, or does only CA work?

 

I have a million and one questions, and those would undoubtedly lead to another three fold in follow ups, so be ready, I usually run full speed all the time.

 

Thanks in advance, and I know that there are more questions regarding these new mediums, and I can probably create a whole new category of tips and tricks, all on my own.

 

You guys have already been a major help and inspiration, I only hope that my vision and my skills can merge before I go toes up in the next ten or fifteen years, if I am lucky!

 

Anthony

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A JLC saw is a great way to remove smaller parts from the pour block. For large parts, possibly including those seats, I use a more aggressive Zona saw. Basically, size the saw to the pour block you have to cut through. For thin parts laying next to the pour block, you might consider scoring the joint with a very sharp #11 blade.

 

Not sure where you're located, but I I got my JLC saw from UMM-USA. BTW, the JLC saw is my #1 tool for removing plastic parts from sprues, too. With practice, you can remove a part with no additional trimming needed. As always, let the saw do the work--don't force it. UMM-USA also sells mitre boxes that are quite good if you do scratch building; I have their MN-034 and MN-041 tools. The JLC saw also does a great job on Albion tubing.

 

Tamyia cement is useless for resin. I generally use CA for resin-plastic joint. I never, ever, use CA for resin-to-resin joints. I only use epoxy for that because of a bad experience where slow-setting CA set instantaneously!

 

The  2" Mini Hold and Fold - Photo Etch Bending Tool from the Small Shop is a wonderful tool. Very well made and quite versatile. For cutting PE from the fret, I use a rounded blade, like a #10 blade, and rock the blade across the fret atop a hard surface, like a glass or steel plate. Hold the to-be cut part to make sure it doesn't fly into a parallel universe. Also be very very careful with tweezers--they will launch small parts into low earth orbit. You may also find success with the point of a sharp #1 blade to lightly stab the part.

 

Tamiya cement is useless for PE. I use CA for PE-to-PE joints and edge-joints with plastic. I use an acrylic glue, like Gator's Grip Glue or Formula 560 Canopy Glue for PE surface joints, like an instrument panel laying on a plastic part. The reason is quite simple, metal and plastic have different expansion rates and CA glue's low shear strength almost guarantee that a surface joint glued with CA will spontaneously pop off.

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9 hours ago, dnl42 said:

bad experience where slow-setting CA set instantaneously!

Made me giggle, we used to talk about how the 5 second fuse of the M67 grenade, only lasted four seconds, so the 3 second cook before throwing into a structure became even more frightening!

 

I live in the Philippines, the climate is much better for my many bone injuries, but especially my back. Even still, rain and temperature drops to a freezing 70 degrees, makes every broken bone injury hurt, even the ones from 40 years ago, its weird. I always thought that was a myth for old people to have something else to complain about. Now I am the old person, and I know they were telling the truth.

9 hours ago, dnl42 said:

The  2" Mini Hold and Fold - Photo Etch Bending Tool from the Small Shop is a wonderful tool. Very well made and quite versatile. For cutting PE from the fret, I use a rounded blade, like a #10 blade, and rock the blade across the fret atop a hard surface, like a glass or steel plate. Hold the to-be cut part to make sure it doesn't fly into a parallel universe. Also be very very careful with tweezers--they will launch small parts into low earth orbit.

I have been looking at the small shop PE tools, and another company called RM toolz I think, they both look really nice, but they are also super expensive, usually over a Benjamin when shipping is added. But I am certain I wont be able to do the perfect folds required for my origami NASES II seats.

 

As far as removing the PE parts, a simple piece of tape is the recommended method to prevent launch, but I will contact NASA just to be safe.

 

As for the saw(s), it looks like I will need to check ebay for the Zona, and some other options. I have some watch repair tools, and they have this plastic base that allows you to hold the watch at different angles, sort of like a miter box, but probably not worth the risk, the accuracy and ability hold a part securely is suspect at best, so I will be checking on models online, but that can probably wait, I am not "scratch builder" ready by any means.

 

Thanks so much for the tips, I now have a starting off point for me resin and PE needs. Just need to have patience while I waiting for funds and shipping to get the PE bender.

 

I will have to double check my kits, but I am fairly certain that I can build the entire fuselage of the AH-Y, before I need to install the resin interior or PE exterior parts. So I am not stuck by any means, just hopefully by the time the money/parts arrive, I will be ready to tackle the rest.

9 hours ago, dnl42 said:

 

Tamiya cement is useless for PE. I use CA for PE-to-PE joints and edge-joints with plastic. I use an acrylic glue, like Gator's Grip Glue or Formula 560 Canopy Glue for PE surface joints, like an instrument panel laying on a plastic part. The reason is quite simple, metal and plastic have different expansion rates and CA glue's low shear strength almost guarantee that a surface joint glued with CA will spontaneously pop off

Even more good tips as to not have parts floating around inside the model that you just sealed up and are proud of, would stick to be sitting at your bench doing some quiet work, only to hear a strange "booooiiiiink", and finding that your pilot has lost his head to some flying PE in your perfect A-10.

 

All of this information will be added to my ever growing "tips and tricks" notes folder on my phone. Thanks so much for giving me a head start!

 

Anthony

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9 hours ago, dnl42 said:

A JLC saw is a great way to remove smaller parts from the pour block. For large parts, possibly including those seats, I use a more aggressive Zona saw.

Upon checking, this is a few things that I have found on ebay, which may be alternatives to the brands you expressed via the saws/miter box. I found this saw miter box combo almost immediately, and getting a package is probably a more cost effective method since money is ALWAYS the biggest factor for me. The first is this set.

81lWNY-f8YL._SX425_.jpg

Excel Blades Small Mitre Box Kit

 

Unfortunately for me, the kit is $21 to buy, another $28 dollars to ship, then the customary $3 import/duties fee that every non-letter package sent to me receives. You can see how even the little bits cost a whole lot more based on my location, really sucks.

 

Next is the Small Shop Photoetch Bending Tool The Bug, think that is the one you mentioned, it is their smallest. These guys have lots of really cool tools for PE, but pricey. This one, the "bug" is $51, add $30 for shipping and import. I have seen other brands that look similar, but not sure it the risk is worth the savings. I can get one for about 1/3rd the small shop prices. What do you think? Try the other brand, or bite the bullet and get the real McCoy is it were?

 

The Zona saw is another one I found and the price is good, both for the razor saw alone, or their saw/miter box combo, but shipping triples the price. I have not looked, but I think all the ones I found on ebay, come from the same seller.

 

I have to head out for a while (one of our rescue cats was killed by a car this morning, my wife is absolutely inconsolable, we need to go for a ride, sucks). I will update with more later.

 

Thanks again,

 

Anthony

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I use Gator Grip glue for many applications instead of CA.  CA can be pretty toxic and have friends in the hobby who have developed allergies over the years to CA.

 

Gator Grip for PE, some canopies, and many landing gear doors.  Sometimes I'll use gator glue and then hit the part with a light touch of CA after the Gator Grip has dried.  Just for some additional strength.

 

Gator Grip can be found here:

http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder1.html

 

gatorgluecurrent-233x251.jpg

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1 hour ago, Jonathan S said:

Gator Grip for PE, some canopies, and many landing gear doors.  Sometimes I'll use gator glue and then hit the part with a light touch of CA after the Gator Grip has dried.  Just for some additional strength.

  

Thanks for the info, I will check ebay/amazon, see who ships to the Philippines. Love that it is non-toxic, always a bonus!

 

Anthony

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12 minutes ago, Stalker6recon said:

Thanks for the info, I will check ebay/amazon, see who ships to the Philippines. Love that it is non-toxic, always a bonus!

  

Anthony

 

Think can only buy direct for this product.  Recommend buying two bottles, one of each type as for me the shipping was the same for two bottles as one.  Follow the teachings on using the product to best results.

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Good to know, and I agree, it is better to have several types of glue, better to have it amd not need it, than need it and not have it. Thats my motto anyway.

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2 hours ago, Jonathan S said:

I use Gator Grip glue for many applications instead of CA.  CA can be pretty toxic and have friends in the hobby who have developed allergies over the years to CA.

 

Gator Grip for PE, some canopies, and many landing gear doors.  Sometimes I'll use gator glue and then hit the part with a light touch of CA after the Gator Grip has dried.  Just for some additional strength.

 

Gator Grip can be found here:

http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder1.html

 

gatorgluecurrent-233x251.jpg

What kind of stuff do you use this for? Can you sand it as a filler?

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4 minutes ago, Sebastian Haff said:

What kind of stuff do you use this for? Can you sand it as a filler?

 

I've note used it as a filler.  Not what I would recommend for a filler.  I use depending on the seam being filled, Perfect Putty or Mr Surface.

 

As for what I do use the Gator Grip for:  Mainly PE, some canopies, and many landing gear doors. 

 

It's a fancy non-toxic white glue that dries clear.  Check out my link provided as it shows it's use and technics.

 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan S said:

Think can only buy direct for this product.

Shot them an email about an hour ago, will have to wait and see what the shipping costs are, hope it isn't cost prohibitive, the only downside to living in the Philippines.

 

Thanks for all the info, very helpful.

48 minutes ago, Jonathan S said:

Mr Surface

I have to admit, I am very confused about mr surfacer. I thought it was mearly a wet polishing compound, good for canopies. But I keep reading about it being used to fill seams. Can you give me a bit more information? Is it paint? Is it filler? Is it a polishing compound?

 

Thanks again, as always,

 

Anthony

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Mr. Surfacer is a primer and gap filler, but never heard of it being a polishing compound.  It comes in bottles of various thicknesses and can be brushed into gaps, allowed to harden, and then sanded to fill small gaps and surface imperfections.  It also comes as in a spray can as a spray on primer/surface imperfection filler.

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35 minutes ago, Stalker6recon said:

Shot them an email about an hour ago, will have to wait and see what the shipping costs are, hope it isn't cost prohibitive, the only downside to living in the Philippines.

 

Thanks for all the info, very helpful.

I have to admit, I am very confused about mr surfacer. I thought it was mearly a wet polishing compound, good for canopies. But I keep reading about it being used to fill seams. Can you give me a bit more information? Is it paint? Is it filler? Is it a polishing compound?

 

Thanks again, as always,

 

Anthony

 

Mr Surface can be used as a filler and primer, but never as a polisher.   It's lacquer based, so toxic.  I apply with a brusht and then use a cotton ball or Q-tip with nail polish remover to take away any excess once dry.   Always where gloves.

 

Perfect Plastic Putty is similar, but not as runny.  And non-toxic, can even remove with water (so make sure sealed before you wash to paint).

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Thinned Mr Surfacer 1200 or 1500 is my goto primer on plastic, resin, and metal. I use it all the time. Produces a beautifully smooth and resilient primer coat. I'll only sand this when additional filling is needed, followed by a partial recoat.

 

I use the unthinned Mr Surfacer when I want some flow in the filler, such as to flow into a gap.

 

My Zona saw is too aggressive for fine resin parts; I only use it on pour plugs that are too big for my JLC saw's 5/16" depth of cut.

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1 hour ago, Dave Williams said:

but never heard of it being a polishing compound.

Wow, I get to offer advice! I have been talking with a fellow modeler and veteran whose build log I found by accident. His name is David, and his build skills put him atop the mountain of guru's that I have found while doing research for my first build.

 

Anyway, he told me that he never uses future or other floor wax for anything, but especially not canopies. He told me tbat they yellow with time. Anyway, if you follow this link, it will take you directly to his "tips and tricks" page of his website. He does a lot of commission work as well. The level of detail he creates is ridiculous. Here is the link.

 

https://davidsscalemodels.com/tips-and-tricks/how-to-repair-clean-and-polish-clear-parts/

 

Anyway, if you like, please check it out. I have also been picking his brain for information and be is very receptive and crazy knowledgeable about a great many subjects. I would have asked him directly about this, but I don't want to wear out my welcome.

 

 

Anthony

PS. I already bought 1000 and 1500 mr surfacer locally, which is shocking since tbere is so little model support where I live, I probably should have bought more.

 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan S said:

a filler and primer, but never as a polisher.

This is gonna shock you..... David is another modeler from this forum and has his own website as well. He is a master builder in my eyes, his work and ability to scratch build is major league without a doubt. Here is a link to his website where he explains in detail how her removed scratches and seams from canopies via mr surfacer and a q-tip.

 

https://davidsscalemodels.com/tips-and-tricks/how-to-repair-clean-and-polish-clear-parts/

 

Hope that this is as helpful to you, as you have been to me!

 

Thank you all for taking time to give someone you don't even know, detailed explanations about everything modelling!

 

Anthony

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Stalker6recon said:

Wow, I get to offer advice! I have been talking with a fellow modeler and veteran whose build log I found by accident. His name is David, and his build skills put him atop the mountain of guru's that I have found while doing research for my first build.

 

Anyway, he told me that he never uses future or other floor wax for anything, but especially not canopies. He told me tbat they yellow with time. Anyway, if you follow this link, it will take you directly to his "tips and tricks" page of his website. He does a lot of commission work as well. The level of detail he creates is ridiculous. Here is the link.

 

https://davidsscalemodels.com/tips-and-tricks/how-to-repair-clean-and-polish-clear-parts/

 

Anyway, if you like, please check it out. I have also been picking his brain for information and be is very receptive and crazy knowledgeable about a great many subjects. I would have asked him directly about this, but I don't want to wear out my welcome.

 

 

Anthony

PS. I already bought 1000 and 1500 mr surfacer locally, which is shocking since tbere is so little model support where I live, I probably should have bought more.

 

 

There is nothing in that link that talks about using Mr Surfacer as a polishing compound.  He’s using PlastX, a polishing compound made for cars.  Having used Mr. Surfacer, knowing it’s lacquer based, and lacquer crazes plastic, I would never use it to polish clear parts.

Edited by Dave Williams

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Stalker6recon said:

Upon checking, this is a few things that I have found on ebay, which may be alternatives to the brands you expressed via the saws/miter box. I found this saw miter box combo almost immediately, and getting a package is probably a more cost effective method since money is ALWAYS the biggest factor for me. The first is this set.

 

Those saws will work well for removing the large casting blocks from resin parts. They are to coarse for removing small, finer parts though. I have a set of photoetch saws that are very fine and perfect for removing small, fine resin parts from their sprues. Not sure who makes/sells these anymore. I purchased mine about 20 years ago.

 

P.S. another thread here mentioned Amazon selling the PE saws. Here a link to the ones I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Hasegawa-Modeling-Scriber-Scribe-Saw/dp/B001HLYQDI

 

Edited by Mstor

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11 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

There is nothing in that link that talks about using Mr Surfacer as a polishing compound.

Oh, I will have to read it again. I guess all the information I have been trying to absorb, has crossed up my brain. Glad you pointed this out to me before I did something stupid.

 

Thanks! Now I just hope that I can unlearn what my brain has done....... Grrrrrrrrr

 

Anthony

 

PS. Obviously I won't be trying that since it was a mistake, unless my brain reconfigures into the false information mode again, I hope that doesnt happen.

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Posted (edited)

For those tiny tiny resin parts, especially those thin ones like pipes attached to the pour block at multiple locations, the most successful way of separating them without breaking them is to heat a scalpel blade and use that to cut. It glides through without having to use force, and so doesn't bend it

 

Hope that helps

 

Les

Edited by lesthegringo
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14 hours ago, lesthegringo said:

Hope that helps 

That absolutely helps, one of those tips that I copy/paste into my growing "how too" files! Thank you so much.

 

My first resin kit I bought, was a AH-6J CMK 1:48 conversion. When the kit arrived and I opened it up, my heart sank, I had no clue what I was even looking at. There are tiny antenna and pitot tubes I think, but I was not sure what were parts and what was scrap. That terrified me, so I gently put it back in the box and began trying to find out all the information I can. I haven't built a kit in thirty years, and choosing to convert to kits with resin/PE as my welcome back project, not exactly the smartest move.

 

Needless to say, I screwed up the build before I even started, removing a part of the plastic kit that was not meant to be removed. So I hit the breaks and decided to order two new little bird kits, and while waiting for that, just learn, learn, learn and learn.

 

I also have put an emphasis on getting the right tools and supplies before I start building. I would hate to get 3/4s through my first build and either have to try "and make it work" or stop and order the tools required.

 

So I am studying how kits these days are built, how to mix/thin acrylics, totally new to me. How to use the new glues available, no more of the stinky stringy melting testors that seems to do more harm than good, especially on the little bits.

 

Sorry, I tend to let my fingers just roll on the keys, so I will end it here with a sincere thank you,

 

Anthony

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Make sure you use a good dust mask when cutting/sanding resin.  That stuff is very bad for the lungs.

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Yeah, I have heard a lot of reports about that, so I will take precautions, that's too easy to mask up, not doing so is silly.

 

Thanks,

 

Anthony

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