RGS Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Trying to nail down the differences between the three. Is the following info correct: A Huey gunship with an M-5 was called a "Frog"; one with the XM-3 was called a "Hog"; and one with both was called a "Heavy Hog". Does that mean that in order to classify as a Frog, the only weapons system installed would be the M-5, or are systems other than the XM-3 permissible? Would it be correct to say that any rocket configuration without the M-5 constitutes a Hog and any rocket configuration with the M-5, a Heavy Hog, or is the Hog/Heavy Hog designation dependent on specifically having an XM-3? If it is weapon system specific (XM-3 only), are other configurations (both with and without the M-5) simply referred to as gunships? As I understand it the Frog, Hog and Heavy Hog designations were informal, so maybe there is no correct answer, but as info online is all over the place, I thought I'd try my luck here. Thanks. Edited April 11, 2019 by RGS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 To the best of my knowledge your definitions are correct. Chris M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Here is a diagram HeavyArty-posted at FineScaleModellers: http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/16/t/75405.aspx?page=1 HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snake36bravo Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) If you think it's confusing to you try talking to some Vietnam army aircrews and pilots who flew guns. Sometimes they don't even refer to it by what others in a different unit do and that chart shows why; 4 variations of Hog, 2 of heavy Hog, never heard Thumper used as anything other than referring to the M-5 and almost universally Frog was in their own word's if it had an M-5 thumper on the nose. Also outside of hating to load it they've all agreed it was a great area weapon. I recognize that chart (Figure 47, page 23) and it's from the late Pete Harlem's 'Crew Chief 1 The UH-1C Huey: Detailing the Monogram Huey Hog Kit'. I only have the 1968 dated UH-1C operators manual but I think that chart Pete used actually came from a later US Army UH-1C/M TM. Pete flew with C CO 277th AVN, 1st CAV 'Ghost Riders' in Vietnam and did a lot of nose art during his tour as a Chicken Man. Pete along with Bob Chenoweth, Wayne Mutza, and Terry Love did a lot to document rotary aviation of the Vietnam War. Pete drilled it down further on the following page: "Unit practice clearly varied quite a lot, but most Assault Helicopter Companies equipped their Hueys with a mix of armament systems. Most of the gunships in a platoon would be setup with either XM-16 or XM-21, and one or two ships would be Hog or Frog (M-5 and rocket pods) aircraft. The gun armed aircraft would, of course, carry rockets as specified by the unit's mission. Aerial Rocket Artillery (ARA) Battalions used all rocket (Hog) configurations with gun armed and grenade ships only in the Headquarters Battery. Air Cavalry Troops usually equipped most of their 'red' (gunship) platoons with gun armed ships, but several optional setups were usually installed on a couple of aircraft so as to maintain mission flexibility'." Tan Son Nhut Airbase 1965 Edited April 13, 2019 by snake36bravo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RGS Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) Thanks for all the info guys, and sorry for the late reply. That chart was pretty helpful; even though I agree that definitions seem to differ from unit to unit it's nice to have something like that to reference as a general guide. It appears that the a/c that triggered me to investigate further is classified as either a 'Heavy Hog' or a 'Heavy Frog' (I'd not previously heard of a Heavy Frog, only Heavy Hog). Thanks again for taking the time to reply, much appreciated! Edited May 7, 2019 by RGS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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