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Eduard MiG-21F, MiG-21 U,US,UM in 48th scale


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There was an interesting comment from Mr. Sulc on a Czech Modelforum cz last night.

As far as my translating program shows it what he was saying something like :

 

. . .there are plans for MiG-21F, 21U, 21US and 21UM in 48th scale of course.

 

Before anyone rushes to the local model shop or starts clicking at internet shops, the time span of this vague hint is fairly wide. Based on current works at Edu it could be several years unfortunately.

 

We will see, but at least Mr. Sulc is not categorically refusing the option for these kits as in the past.

If he is at Moson tomorrow I will certainly ask few questions about this.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Hi Brad,

 

If he is there I will have many questions to him including the controversial question about that completely wrong marking for Red 12 Me-109G-10 which started an argument leading to my life long ban from another forum.

 

Actually part of your question was answered yesterday by Mr. Sulc. The upscale of the MiG-15 to 48th is also in the plans. So this could be a good news for you. Actually he has been saying this for years now. The real NEWS with all capital letters was the mention of the MiG-21F-13 and the twoseater trainers.

 

As to the MiG-19 it is a strange question and one that was asked of him by many other, mainly local modellers. But this includes a lot of other wish list kits. I don’t think there is really a point in going into that. But I will ask him, IF HE IS THERE.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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2 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 

 

If he is there I will have many questions to him including the controversial question about that completely wrong marking for Red 12 Me-109G-10 which started an argument leading to my life long ban from another forum.

 

 Hi Gabor,

 

I know this is the jet forum, but can you tell me some more about this issue? Maybe via PM.

 

Thanks,

 

Thomas

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5 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

The real NEWS with all capital letters was the mention of the MiG-21F-13 and the twoseater trainers.

 

As to the MiG-19 it is a strange question and one that was asked of him by many other, mainly local modellers. But this includes a lot of other wish list kits. I don’t think there is really a point in going into that. But I will ask him, IF HE IS THERE.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Actually, that is also news of yesteryear... 

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3 hours ago, Thomas said:

 Hi Gabor,

 

I know this is the jet forum, but can you tell me some more about this issue? Maybe via PM.

 

Thanks,

 

Thomas

The kit gives the number as Yellow 12 based on JaPo book. Sorry they got it wrong, according to research by historians it was Red 12. While there are no colour photos available there is a well known and documented FW-190 standing next to ex-Hungarian Me-109 and it is known that it was at one time Red 7 which had smaller Yellow 11 appllied over/next to it. So we have both colours for comparison with the Hungarian ac number colour on one single photo under same conditions in excellent quality. It is 99% that the Me-109G-10 is Red 12. The Edu decal is wrong also in shape of the number, shape and proportions of Hungarian national marking and painting instruction.

 

The purely historic reasons for Red number are too long to get into here. That one single photo is very convincing! 

 

 

Sorry for the off-topic. Lets go back to the MiG's. Tomorrow :))))

 

Best regards

Gabor

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On 4/26/2019 at 3:32 PM, B.Sin said:

Gabor, please ask Mr.Sulc too do

a MiG-19 and a MiG-15 in 1/48th scale.  Thank you. 

 

Brad

 

Hi Brad,

 

Back from the Moson 2019 show. Well, in the end I did not have the chance to ask Mr. Sulc about anything. Simple, he was not at the show with only the sales team at Moson. So sorry no information on this, apart from the one given before about the MiG-15.

 

Still the Moson show was great but it involved a lot of work and lots of travel. With the alarm clock going off little after 4 AM each day, it was a “long” and tiring weekend (with some 650 km travel) so more on the Show and some of the “hostages” that I took later in the week. :))

 

Best regards

Gabor

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On 4/27/2019 at 1:34 PM, Thomas said:

Thanks Gabor!

 

You are welcome!

I am sorry that the kit turned out as it did in the end. Another opportunity missed . . .

I know that several people are already working on producing the right decals independently from the kit manufacturer, they have to correct many mistakes on those Hungarian markings. 

The Me-109G-10 kit and thoe questionable markings were the subject of a lot of discussions this weekend at Moson. People, modellers from all over Europe were here, well not only Europe but the whole world so it was an opportunity for some very lively exchange of ideas!

 

Best regards

Gabor 

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Back to the early MiG 21's.  Yes when the initial kit, the MF was released there was talk that someday an F-13 would be done.    Always thought that an interesting dual combo for Eduard would be their Mirage and MiG-21 together.  

 

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Remember that the 48th scale kit was released, what is it in 2010 or 2011. The plans for it started year or two in advance so it is by now more than a decade old. A lot, and I mean a hell of a lot of time has passed since then! Unfortunately a lot has changed in many respects including company plans / priorities / preferences and in this line the early F-13 and the two-seaters have faded into the unknown foggy future. They were the last and least likely projects in that line of Fishbeds.

 

The recent quote from Mr. Sulc is very surprising and an interesting wake up of this project from long term hibernation. I believe it when I see it, there are lot of other projects going on in Obrnice which have priority so we should wait and see.

 

I have to remind that while there is a considerable commonality between different versions (MF, SMT, PF, PFM, R) the MiG-21F-13 sticks out completely. Basically you have to produce a whole kit on its own with all new sprues. This is a very big investment from the company!!! 

 

As for the two-seater versions. The early MiG-21U (Type 66) and the late MiG-21UM (Type 69) are once again very different, where one has to produce brand new wings, fuselage, top fuel tank, vertical fin and most of the other parts as they are once again different. The in-between MiG-21 US is not such a big problem only some changes there.

In the end what you end up is an investment into 2.5 complete new kits with all the sprues and everything.

 

In comparison what did you have with the MF, SMT, bis and the other kits. Basically only new fuselage and wings and one sprue changed from the 8 sprues. So with minimal investment Edu was able to produce new versions one after the other using 6 common sprues for each of them.

 

The F-13 and the U/US/UM is far more costly with full investment into each and it has to be justified by returns at the other end.  

 

Lets see what will happen.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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  • 1 year later...

I got some disappointing news about Eduard's MiG-19. It will be a re-boxed Trumpeter kit with options to do both versions and wilol concentrate on the Czech variant S-105. That is very disappointing. However I do not know if the MiG-21F-13 and the UM/UB will also be. I hope not since the Trumpy MiGs are no better than the old Academy kits with the same and sometimes worse shape mistakes. If I had to guess, I will say that those two will be new since trees from the previously released 21s can be used. Fortunately I still have in my stash a resin fuselage set from the HiPM kit which can be married to the usable parts from Academy or Trumpeter. I don't think that there is any way to really fix the Trumpy early MiG-21F. Short of kitbashing that kit with the back half of either an Eduard, KP or OEZ kit. That can also be done for the 21U.

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  • 1 year later...

It has been some time since any news on this subject. Last night Mr. Sulc (Boss of the little known Czech kit manufacturer Eduard) has posted this on a Czech forum to a question:

 

Jiří writes:Will there be a MiG-21F, UM next year, or not for the rush of work on well-known propellers again?



I can't say it seriously yet, it's still a long way off. I would like as the main model for E-day 2022 MiGa-21F-13 1/48. Whether this will succeed is uncertain, but it is highly likely. There will definitely be no two-seater versions next year.

 

 

We will see when it happens. : )  : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

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So many countries fly/flew the twoseater UM! I don't understand model companies sometimes.....

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Two seater is not made in such high numbers like MF or bis, so who cares. Eduard probably calculated, and with Trumpeter UM on market they probably said who cares for two seater....lets rather make 99th edition of Bf or FW or Mustang or Spitfire. We must live with that. Strange that they didnt make bis in 1/72scale too...

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Please read again the Czech forum question and the answer from Mr. Sulc!

 

The Question was if the 21F-13 and the two seater can be expected in 2022

The Answer:  "There will definitely be no two-seater versions next year."       that is in 2022

 

It has been known for some time that Eduard is working not only on the early Type 74 MiG-21F-13 single seater fighter but also on the two seater 21 ALSO.

 

The answer from Mr. Sulc was that it is probable (and hoped) that for 2022 E Day the F-13 version will be ready, BUT the two seater is not expected in 2022.

 

I can only clear this: the two seater is going to be made but only later.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Gabor,

 

I realize the post where you refer to a possible Eduard MiG-15 in 1/48 was from way back in April of 2019, but I'm wondering if, in the interim period, you have heard anything more on a potential Eduard new tool MiG-15 in 1.48.  I would jump on such a model in a heartbeat!  That, along with a new tool F-86.  Since Eduard seems to like to put together historic double kits (to wit, the 2 Battle of Britain Spitfire Limited Editions, and the Alderangriff Limited Editions), what a fabulous idea of two more limited editions, with 2 planes each, the Korean War MiG-15s and F-86s .  I know, I'm dreaming....

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Yes, it is a dream! The 48th scale MiG-15 was talked about for some time and I remeber speaking about this with Mr. Sulc in 2019. They have everything to make it and not only a simple up-scale of the 72nd version.

I would say that one has to look at the production by Eduard where a lot of projects are handled in parallel.

 

BUT

 

Eduard is a small company! A very small company! OK, not as small as FineMolds with its less than a dozen workers. But still a small company and one has to remember that they do EVERYTHING in house! Research (most of it), design, tool making and injection moulding production. Most companies have outsourced most of this, Airfix is basically just a handful of people in an office while tools are cut in China, production of kits is also arriving from abroad, decals by Cartograf . . .

In case of Eduard the size of the company is the real problem where there is simply no possibility to fulfil some of the great dreams, there is simply a physical limit to what the company can do in a given time!!!

 

Getting back to the MiG-21 shows clearly this problem. The first Fishbed in 48 scale was released a decade ago and they still just in planning stage of finishing that family with the MiG-21F-13 and twoseater version or the down scaled 72 scales family (SMT, R, bis. . .) where everything is given, one only needs to actually cut metal and get on with it.

 

Company size, company profitability and survival are all important and go hand in hand. Here one has to see that the Mustang, the Spit, the 109 or 190 make the money to keep the company going! So there are priorities and even though the Fishbed for example did make a nice profit in the past decade for the company it is still in the second row of things to do. The MiG-15 was always more in the back and many remember all the bad luck associated with producing this kit, so a bad mouth taste is there I am sure when in Eduard HQ this question is raised. They know they will have to do it, they know they will do it, but when . . .

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Liking or not a plastic kits box-art is always a question of taste. One can say the aircraft is flying (or standing) in the wrong direction, it is depicted from a wrong angle, colours are not what they should be. . .  But at least the actual aircraft subject should be the one you find in the box.

 

Question to Eduard: What happened here???

 

The box-art of the latest Eduard MiG-21 bis release by Adam Tooby looked very strange. And it is not about the aircraft nose . . .

The whole thing is simply wrong! Then I realized that the artist simply had absolutely no idea what he was drawing. He took or was given by Eduard a suitable MiG-21PFM photo (most possibly) and applied over it the camouflage and markings intended for the MiG-21bis for this kit.

 

The strangers thing is the spine fuel tank. On Eduard illustration by Adam Tooby it is a simple PFM tank mixed with MF tank and a little widening applied to it resulting in a very strange shape. He even left the small intake at the base of the fin from the PFM. The spine ends as on MF aircraft while on real MiG-21bis it is far longer. He also left the panel lines of the PFM spine fuel tank. It all looks strange and very wrong!

 

The wings are also from earlier version with the simple sliding Fowler type flaps. On the MiG-21bis the more modern and effective blown flaps were used which were far longer on top surface. The oval wing inspection panel was also left as on earlier Fishbed version. The MiG-21bis had a different wing with no oval panel!

An artist like Adam Tooby does not have to know aircraft structure details, he is just an artist!  He should be told of details which he illustrates wrongly by Eduard when correcting it before the boxes are printed.

 

The nose of the real MiG-21 (All versions) is made of single piece of massive big aluminium panels on both sides. There should be no “Pre- Post- shaded” panel lines on them, there are no ribs or panel lines there! It is also interesting that both ailerons are shown in up position which is physically not possible on a MiG-21. They work in opposite direction, when one is up the other is down (of course).  

 

All of this would not be a problem if Eduard did not repeat every month of how authentic the box-arts are, depicting real events and correctly illustrating even the smallest details.

Not in this case!

So after all this is only a box-art and in this case it is really simply ART nothing more, and has nothing to do with authenticity, or a real MiG-21bis!

 

pOjsbqP.jpg 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

An artist like Adam Tooby does not have to know aircraft structure details, he is just an artist!  He should be told of details which he illustrates wrongly by Eduard when correcting it before the boxes are printed.

Very interesting box art analysis, Gabor. Thanks.

 

Gene K

 

Edited by GeneK
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All of this would not be a problem if Eduard did not repeat every month of how meticulous they are with box-arts, depicting real events and correctly illustrating even the smallest details. I am sure it is like that with some kits. Well this box art is not one of them.

 

I am sorry if this sounds bad but this is the truth about some details on this art work. Yeah it is only a box art and the kit is what it is of course. Just interesting.

 

Before anyone would ask, yes, I did send my views to Eduard directly.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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So this lengthy box art analysis states that pretty much everything is wrong with it but at the end also states it doesn't matter. 

Looks like another Eduard bashing. Boredom maybe?

Eduard said clearly that they're trying something new. And obviously not everything is working too well. V.Sulc was publicly critical about Tempest II boxart.

Mario

in NYC

 

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I did say it is all a question of taste!!! For some only the kit is important, for others the whole package, but I know people who buy kits based only on box-art . . .

 

Is it a long analysis of the box-art?

And is it bashing company or the kit?

There are people who simply post on forums that: This kit is rubbish, or That company and its products are trash. They don’t give any explanation, reason and what is more important proof of what they say. They only express their opinion or taste for this or that.

This is bashing for no reasons given!

 

I like to show in detail (and in text) what my reasons are for the given opinion and explain the technical details. This way modellers can make up their own mind based on the explanation. I don’t want to force my taste on anyone, just show what the real aircraft looks like and where did the maker (or in this case the artist Adam Tooby) go wrong.

 

You Sakai have your own opinion, that is fine with me.

 

Few points:

 

Actually concerning the Tempest box-art Mr. Sulc has said that:

„Well, it's not that bad, . . .

 

You say:

Eduard said clearly that they're trying something new.

 

The NEW part of the story is the overall DESIGN of all Eduard boxes AND NOT THE ART WORK! Here in case of this re-release of MiG-21bis the questions raised by me were about the actual artwork on top of the box! It has NOTHING to do with the layout and design of the box!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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