Anders_Isaksson Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I have asked about similar topics on early Eagles before but thought there might be newer information (and perhaps newer kits) out there. Would the GWH F-15J be the better option for an F-15A as per this Caracal sheet? http://www.caracalmodels.com/cd48150.html The Tamiya A is rather old and the Monogram A is even older. I understand the Hasegawa A is really a C... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) I could be mistaken, but I always heard the Monogram 1/48 F-15A was the most accurate A model shape wise, raised panel lines and all! Edited May 1, 2019 by Charlie D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IAGeezer Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 The Monogram kit also has correct wheels, turkey feather exhausts, and the MLG doors are closed, as they should be. It does, however, have the large air brake on top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sleepy Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 The GWH kit is a C (or J), so unless you want to do some back dating, it’s still going to be a C. Likewise, no matter what the box says, Hasegawa’s kit is and has always been a C/J. The Tamiya kit came out in 1978, and the Monogram kit came out in 1979. Both of them were created before there was such a thing as an F-15C. Despite its dodgy fit in places and its raised panel lines, it remains, 40 years later, still the most accurately shaped 1/48 F-15 single seater kit there is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Early Eagles, specifically the first pre-production jets, had different wing tips with the outer edge parallel with the fuselage (like an F-16 or F-18 but without rails). I don't know of any 1/48 kit with the earl wingtips, possibly the first Revell kit (not the Monogram kit you find in Revell boxes now) but that early Revell kit had lots of other problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anders_Isaksson Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Thanks all! Hmm... so no obvious choice for these decals. Thinking about getting a Tamiya Eagle and go with that. At least the panel lines are recessed and properresin early wheels are out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aircal62 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 The prototype Eagles did not have the dog tooth stabs, had square wing tips and a small speed brake. The dog tooth was added early on in testing, and the wingtips were cut back on the early aircraft, so the early test birds ended up with this modifications. I remember seeing the early wing tips were cut back with wood used as filler on the wing tips of the #2 F-15 during an open house in 1973. The initial Revell kit of the F-15 with the Streak Eagle markings in 1/48th had the small speed brake and may have had the squared wing tips. The Fujimi F-15 in 1/48 represented an early A with the stiffener on the speed brake. The Tamiya kit represented a little later A and the Monogram a bit later A yet with the final speedbrake configuration. The initial Monogram kit in 1/48 also had the best early cockpit for many years. In 1/72 scale Hasegawa, Monogram and Revell all had an early A out, with the Hasegawa representing perhaps the #1 aircraft. When Caracal gets to the YF -16 decals the fun will begin! I have a Frankenviper which is a combination of an early A Hasegawa, and Otaki and a Tamiya kit. Will Discuss that monster when the decals come out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I'm planning on using the Monogram F-15A Using this build for inspiration https://modelingmadness.com/review/mod/jacksonf15.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Hi, I have some more questions about those early Eagles. What is out there as reference material? Are there good references for the short airbrake with an external stiffener, the stabs without a dogtooth or the square wingtips? Maybe an old Detail & Scale book? I wonder if the square wingtips can be achieved by cutting the curved bit off a later wing? Or should material be added to a later wing to make it square one? Some options are for F-15B's. I'm not aware of a lot of 1/48th B model kits. Maybe the best way is a Hasegawa F-15D or E with A-model wheels? Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 On 5/2/2019 at 7:42 PM, Charlie D. said: I'm planning on using the Monogram F-15A Using this build for inspiration https://modelingmadness.com/review/mod/jacksonf15.htm Oh, man. Those Roger Jackson builds - I still remember every single one I saw. He had a mind-blowing, completely rescribed F-5A build somewhere. Does anyone know if he still builds models? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 As can be seen, the wing still had curve to it with the squared tips. -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Nice picture, Gregg. It looks like the large bullet fairing is on both tails! Charlie D, Is that a book you'd recommend for the early Eagles? After a google search, I read some reviews on Amazon and one called it a "waste of money" and another found it "totally briljant". Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 3:05 PM, Stefan buysse said: Nice picture, Gregg. It looks like the large bullet fairing is on both tails! Charlie D, Is that a book you'd recommend for the early Eagles? After a google search, I read some reviews on Amazon and one called it a "waste of money" and another found it "totally briljant". Cheers, Stefan. I am by no means a rivet counter, but I found it a good read. lots of interesting stuff about the developmental program, including some earlier designs that led to the final configuration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) On 5/3/2019 at 8:29 PM, KursadA said: Oh, man. Those Roger Jackson builds - I still remember every single one I saw. He had a mind-blowing, completely rescribed F-5A build somewhere. Does anyone know if he still builds models? He did amazing work. Last I heard he had retired from modeling, and was playing in a band somewhere. Others might know more. I'm always amazed at the work he did, especially considering what he started with. Edited May 6, 2019 by Charlie D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre Freak Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Interesting blog site by a former McAir engineer Speed brakes http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2014/12/f-15-speed-brake-development.html Wing Tips http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-saga-of-f-15-wing-tips-to-clip-or.html http://aviationarchives.net/The%20Saga%20of%20the%20F-15%20Wing%20Tips_Revised%201_.pdf Since production As are externally identical to the C, you’ve got the same amount of work to get to a pre production A from either an ancient F-15A kit or a newer tool C. Wheels, seat, cockpit, and exhausts are the telling differences between non MISP As and C models. Most of that should be covered by AM. Have I missed anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, Sabre Freak said: Interesting blog site by a former McAir engineer Speed brakes http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2014/12/f-15-speed-brake-development.html Wing Tips http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-saga-of-f-15-wing-tips-to-clip-or.html http://aviationarchives.net/The%20Saga%20of%20the%20F-15%20Wing%20Tips_Revised%201_.pdf Since production As are externally identical to the C, you’ve got the same amount of work to get to a pre production A from either an ancient F-15A kit or a newer tool C. Wheels, seat, cockpit, and exhausts are the telling differences between non MISP As and C models. Most of that should be covered by AM. Have I missed anything? Just for preproduction aircraft though right? Early As in air superiority blue wouldn't be in that batch, or would they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre Freak Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Everything I’ve read is that the small brake/square wingtips/strait (no dog tooth) H Stab would be pre production aircraft only.. (now watch someone throw down a 1st TFW pic of an F-15 with a small speed brake) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre Freak Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I take that back. AS blue F-15As had an external stffner on the large speed brake https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/f-15-differences-t236442.html i think you can see it in this photo https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2012/11/McDonnell-Douglas-F-15A-8-MC-Eagle-73-0090-Air-Superiority-Blue-.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) I was searching for Revell H-264 boxing camouflage and found wing tips layout in a instruction sheet taken from ebay, sadly I was in sandbox mode and I can't track it down. So far mixing everything up and possibly making errors my findings of "find the difference challenge between production F-15A vs pre MSIP F-15C" are: Cockpit area: Red or orange sealing Instruments panel Ejection seat No ECM so different trunk layout Metallic blue/green/whatever bay Airbrake area: Different shaped plates where the fuselage mets the airbrake Engine area (upper): Feather covers Engine area (bottom): Saber drains a good maybe is the ECS exhaust (?) as sometimes appears to be rounded and other times it does not Hook: found something about U and T shaped fairing MLG area: Metallic blue/green/whatever well Different rims Rims sometimes were painted in black Nose area: Antenna layout with both missing, added and moved antennas or probes Upper intake area: Rectangular panel missing on C models Bottom fuselage: this is another maybe something around the panel used to load gun ammunition Vertical stabs: Same counterweight pods Airbrake: External rib in the middle of it not present on every model Fuselage right side where the canopy ends: Another personal doubt due pictures scattered around the web is the absence of the rounded shaped vent If earlier or TF model is in the mix then Wing tips Dorsal spine shape due different airbrake Ejection seat Some help from a real F-15 guru is really needed 😄 Luigi Edited May 6, 2019 by Mizar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Mizar said: I was searching for Revell H-264 boxing camouflage and found wing tips layout in a instruction sheet taken from ebay, sadly I was in sandbox mode and I can't track it down. Here's the H-264 boxing. Has the short airbrake and large bullet fairing on both vert stabs, but the wing tips are not the early pre-production. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Revell-1-72-F-15-Eagle-H-264-/273671654245 H-254 appears to be the same kit. Kit dates back to 1975. Certainly is an "early" F-15 kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aircal62 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Does anyone have the initial Monogram F-15 issue from about 1972 or such in 1/72. This kit was issued about the same time as the TBD and P-61 kits. Also does anyone have the initial Hasegawa F-15A kit in prototype markings from about 1974 in 1/72. I think both of these kits had the squared wing tips as well as the small speed brake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Mstor said: Here's the H-264 boxing. Has the short airbrake and large bullet fairing on both vert stabs, but the wing tips are not the early pre-production. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Revell-1-72-F-15-Eagle-H-264-/273671654245 H-254 appears to be the same kit. Kit dates back to 1975. Certainly is an "early" F-15 kit. I meant the instruction sheet shows you the differences between the wingtips ala "here's the thing you have to modify bro, good luck with that". The kit itself was reboxed by Matchbox or is the Matchbox reboxed, later Revell/Monogram parted ways with that thing and made their own version or two of it as I have spare parts from Monogram boxes which are not identical despite being the same Luigi Edited May 7, 2019 by Mizar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anders_Isaksson Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 Well, the early Eagle seems to be as elusive as AMKs upcoming US Navy related release. As I said earlier, think I'll just go with the Tamiya kit (with somewhat bad fit and all but recessed panel lines) plus a set of resin early wheels. Most probabably not totally accurate for the Caracal ASB schemes but close enough for me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Anders_Isaksson said: Well, the early Eagle seems to be as elusive as AMKs upcoming US Navy related release. Ha ha ha, you wrote a funny Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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