Tato Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Hello guys! I'm currently building an F-4D station in Europe (Spangdahlem) during the mid 70's. Here is the one I'm building: https://www.planepictures.net/v3/show_en.php?id=816587 I've search anywhere with no luck. What was the main role of this fighters during this period? What kind of ordenance did they carry? Of all the photos I've seen, the only thing they carry was the fuel tanks under each wing. Can I put some empty TER's in the inboard pylons, or that is not realistic? Thanks a lot for the help! Regards, Tato Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) http://s668.photobucket.com/user/CR-74050/media/Spangdahlem/img014.jpg.html Another pic Edited May 23, 2019 by Whiskey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 How ‘bout this: 370s on the outboard stations, a ter on station 2 with BDU-33s x3, a clean centerline with the same configuration on the right side. Oh, put a an empty set of aero 3bs on the inboards. That would be a realistic bomber training configuration. An air-to-air jet might have 370s and a captive carry AIM-9. You also might consider a SUU-20 or 21. A good rule of thumb to follow is USAF F-4s almost always had 370s regardless of mission and BDU-33 were very common in the mid 70s and 80s. Those Spang jets might have carried other training ordnance as well, ie Mavs. I’ll bet there is an old USAFE head that can opine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Not SP but how about some Mavericks: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airmechaja Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Great pic Jari. Love it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenshb Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 How about wing tanks, , and ALQ-119 on the starboard wingpylon and a Mk.43 Nuke on the belly? Maybe a couple of Sparrows on the rear fuselage stations for self defence en-route... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 13 hours ago, BillS said: How ‘bout this: 370s on the outboard stations, a ter on station 2 with BDU-33s x3, a clean centerline with the same configuration on the right side. Oh, put a an empty set of aero 3bs on the inboards. That would be a realistic bomber training configuration. An air-to-air jet might have 370s and a captive carry AIM-9. You also might consider a SUU-20 or 21. A good rule of thumb to follow is USAF F-4s almost always had 370s regardless of mission and BDU-33 were very common in the mid 70s and 80s. Those Spang jets might have carried other training ordnance as well, ie Mavs. I’ll bet there is an old USAFE head that can opine. I'd be really surprised to see practice bombs (BDU-33 & Mk 106) on TERs or SUU-20s in Europe. The SUU-20s were standard in the US, but SUU-21s were used in Europe because they had doors that enclosed the bombs to preclude accidental releases over the densely populated countryside. One of the primary missions of German-based F-4Ds would have been Victor Alert to deliver nukes into the Warsaw Pact, most probably B61s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joerg Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 hours ago, mrvark said: I'd be really surprised to see practice bombs (BDU-33 & Mk 106) on TERs or SUU-20s in Europe. The SUU-20s were standard in the US, but SUU-21s were used in Europe because they had doors that enclosed the bombs to preclude accidental releases over the densely populated countryside. One of the primary missions of German-based F-4Ds would have been Victor Alert to deliver nukes into the Warsaw Pact, most probably B61s. Jim, you're correct for Phantoms - they used SUU-21s. Have not seen any pic of a USAFE Phantom with SUU-20. On the other hand USAFE Vipers used and stiil use SUU-20 regularly. Maybe some improvement done to the SUU-20 over the years? I have found a pic of Spang F-4D with 3 tanks, a Pave Spike pod in the left fwd Sparrow well and a Mavs on the left inboard station (on the outboard station of a triple launcher). The right inboard pylon is not visible in the pic. Could either carry another Mav or (more probably) a SUU-21. ALQ-119 was also used in the left fwd Sparrow well. The most common (training) fit seems to have been 2 wing tanks and 2 SUU-21. I have not seen pics of Spang F-4Ds with any air to air fit. HTH Joerg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) On 5/23/2019 at 6:22 PM, BillS said: How ‘bout this: 370s on the outboard stations, a ter on station 2 with BDU-33s x3, a clean centerline with the same configuration on the right side. Oh, put a an empty set of aero 3bs on the inboards. That would be a realistic bomber training configuration. An air-to-air jet might have 370s and a captive carry AIM-9. You also might consider a SUU-20 or 21. A good rule of thumb to follow is USAF F-4s almost always had 370s regardless of mission and BDU-33 were very common in the mid 70s and 80s. Those Spang jets might have carried other training ordnance as well, ie Mavs. I’ll bet there is an old USAFE head that can opine. 370's and occasional C/L tank, ok. But no "exposed" munitions due to laws where they required closed doors, such as on the SUU-21 for BDU-33's and sometimes on the other side, Mk-106's. It was for safety reasons where an accidentally dropped munition could cause bodily harm or death or significant property damage. It was a requirement of the German government. I hauled/hung/moved hundreds of SUU-21's at Spang from 1980 to 1982. On Victor Alert, there were five "hot-cocked" jets with C/L nukes...B-61's, and during alerts (exercises) we loaded on the D's, Mk-82's on stas 2 & 8, on TER's or a LAU-88 with AGM 65's on it, or GBU-12's (one, ea) on stas 2 & 8, and on rare occasion, if the mission frag called for it, two AGM-45's, also on 2 & 8. It also wasn't uncommon to do a combat "quick turn" where an F-4 would either taxi out and come back to the same spot or one that had flown and returned to a TAB-V and get a Mk-82 hung or even a GBU-12. But that was for weapons-load proficiency evals vs. larger mission requirements but it all tied into the final "score" when the exercise was over. We did this a lot. 12 hour shifts for a week or more, chem-gear, C-rats and busting our butts for being ready against "Ivan". Once the conventional part was over, the entire flightline got special weapons and then we downloaded them and the jets would do the "elephant walk" to the runway, fast taxi on it, turn off and taxi back their spot. However, day-to-day, "going to the range" was a SUU-21 on either sta 2 or 8 sometimes one each and maybe with six BDU-33's each or one with BDU-33's and the other with Mk-106's. Never a gun pod though we loaded them occasionally, and always both 370's, sometimes with a centerline bag sometimes not. On very, VERY rare occasion, the SUU-21 might be loaded on the C/L. Another typical config would be a TGM-65 on a LAU-88 with the store on the bottom station. The "missile" would never leave the launcher (no motor) and was used for practice with the video acquisition/targeting. HTH Edited May 25, 2019 by VADM Fangschleister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Awesome info VANG, thanks for posting it. Will definitely refer to it when I get around to a Spang 'Toom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tato Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 Thank you all for the great information, it's indeed very helpful and clear things a lot! Some very interesting loadouts to choose from! Regards, Tato Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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