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1/48 - Lockheed F-104G & J Starfighter by Kinetic - F-104G & J released - new KLu/RNethAF boxing

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

Those divots are a visual representation of something that is there. I saw Starfighter’s on a daily basis at one time.

Doesn’t take away from the fact that they are grossly out of scale and take away from what would otherwise be a pretty solid kit.  Here's the real thing.   I'd argue that Hase should have just opted to go with a smooth surface and not those overly pronounced pits they covered their model with.  Just my $0.02, in any event, I hope Kinetic will improve upon this.

 

F-104F-7345.jpg

Edited by 11bee

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On 5/30/2019 at 11:06 PM, Solo said:

Better than Hasegawa? Don’t think so. Very pointless.

 

Pointless? hardly.. Unlike your post. 

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Hasegawa is a beautiful kit. However, Hasegawa for some strange reason dont provide weapons or under wing fuel tanks. The extra details like radar and electronic bay at the back of the cockpit seems to be included in the kit. Those details are not available in Hasegawa kit. So this is a different product of the same aircraft model. 

 

Also one of the criticisms of Hasegawa kit is the wings are short in span as it seems the kit was designed from the plan drawings and the wing was not actually measured.  

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On 5/30/2019 at 6:06 AM, Solo said:

Better than Hasegawa? Don’t think so. Very pointless.

 

Hasegawa F-104s make exactly NO money for Kinetic.  And yes, very likely to be FAR better than Hasegawa, assuming Kinetic doesn't plaster the kit with rivets that the F-104 never had.

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39 minutes ago, stalal said:

Hasegawa is a beautiful kit. However, Hasegawa for some strange reason dont provide weapons or under wing fuel tanks. The extra details like radar and electronic bay at the back of the cockpit seems to be included in the kit. Those details are not available in Hasegawa kit. So this is a different product of the same aircraft model. 

 

Also one of the criticisms of Hasegawa kit is the wings are short in span as it seems the kit was designed from the plan drawings and the wing was not actually measured.  

 

And it's covered with scale 3" wide holes where (at most) there should be perfectly smooth flush riveting.  And on the wings there should be NO rivets at all, since the panels that Hasegawa put the post holes are actually machined and don't have rivets.


I'm super excited to see Kinetic's effort!

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This is great news for me! Big fan of the 104 and new kits are always welcome.  Please do a Canadian CF-104 boxing soon and please include markings for an olive green 104 and a green/grey camouflaged bird. As much and all as the CF-104 color birds are nice and flashy, they have been done to death in my opinion.

 

Well done Kinetic folks!

 

Happy modeling all!

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36 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

 

And it's covered with scale 3" wide holes where (at most) there should be perfectly smooth flush riveting.  And on the wings there should be NO rivets at all, since the panels that Hasegawa put the post holes are actually machined and don't have rivets.


I'm super excited to see Kinetic's effort!

 

It is still a visual representation of something that is there. I drove past a 104 everyday as the guard gate to my base, I could see the flush riveting on the wings from the road and the aircraft was mounted on a pedestal. No matter how well they were flush, and how well the finish was, you could still see them. A perfectly smooth clean wing wouldn't be accurate. It is all up to the modeller how they represent that visually. For me a black wash is a big no. It has to be subtle. There were two 104s on the way to work, one natural metal and the second in camo. I could see them on both.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Scooby said:

 

It is still a visual representation of something that is there. I drove past a 104 everyday as the guard gate to my base, I could see the flush riveting on the wings from the road and the aircraft was mounted on a pedestal. No matter how well they were flush, and how well the finish was, you could still see them. A perfectly smooth clean wing wouldn't be accurate. It is all up to the modeller how they represent that visually. For me a black wash is a big no. It has to be subtle. There were two 104s on the way to work, one natural metal and the second in camo. I could see them on both.

 

So you could take a backhoe and make panel lines a foot wide and they would still be "visual representation of something that is there" wouldn't they?   What's your point?  They're a VASTLY over-done representation of something that on the real F-104 is BARELY visible from three feet away, and not at ALL visible from 15 feet away.  Do you view your model from less than 4" away?  I don't.  I bought one of the Hasegawa kits when it came out in 2000.  I tried to fill those thousands of divots with Mr. Surfacer, and I gave up.  Haven't bought another one.  Especially if you want to do a natural metal airplane, they completely ruin the look of the model.  Those holes catch and reflect light and make the model look like it's got Christmas lights strung all over it.  

 

Edited by Sleepy

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Here's a nice pic that shows how smooth a 104 wing should be...

 

f-104a_56-0733_32_of_56.jpg

 

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Photo of an unpainted F-104 wing (can't remember which website it came from or who the photographer was - certainly at a Germany museum):

F104%2019.jpg

 

The Hasegawa rivets are an over-representation and not accurate. But a completely smooth wing devoid of any surface detail neither. In particular if you're depicting an aircraft in active service with some weathering, wear and tear etc.

I filled the Hasegawa rivets, sanded and then re-rivetted with a fine rivet maker wheel.

 

J

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Why are people so salty about a new tooled subject from a manufacturer with an increasing commitment to quality?

 

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25 minutes ago, Vaildog said:

Why are people so salty about a new tooled subject from a manufacturer with an increasing commitment to quality?

 

 

Beats me.  People love to bash things they’ve never seen and know nothing about.

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2 hours ago, JeffreyK said:

The Hasegawa rivets are an over-representation and not accurate. But a completely smooth wing devoid of any surface detail neither. In particular if you're depicting an aircraft in active service with some weathering, wear and tear etc.

I filled the Hasegawa rivets, sanded and then re-rivetted with a fine rivet maker wheel.

 

I think its somewhere in-between the perfectly smooth and obvious rivets. An some of the photos wings of active aircraft I found, you could see the rivets very faintly. I believe most of the rivets may have been puttied over and sanded smooth on active duty aircraft, but there were panels that were not puttied as they needed access to them. Here's an F-104G wing. You can see the rivets, but they are very faint except on the panels where access is needed. Certainly looks overall much smoother than the fuselage rivets.

 

f-104g_fx-47_09_of_39.jpg

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Well all I can  a real surprise and a good idea,  as great as people like Hasegawa , their biggest short coming was not giving complete details a weapons,

. But unlike most of their kits I felt that the F104 was lacking in providing under wing stores, extra fuel tanks like most of their other kits. I remember the first release and the were clear parts for the fuselage lights but no instructions as to where or how to install.  So to me this was a sub standard kit for Hasegawa.  This new Kinetic kit will be welcome to me because their track record with all of the kits is to provide enough parts to build the options most common .  I find it a bit annoying that you have to buy resin or upgrade sets just to complete basic kit for weapons, fuel tanks . 

Raymond has done a good job of providing a product that has tried to provide all you need to build without requiring more parts to finish including quality decals 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2019 at 5:13 AM, Mstor said:

 

I think its somewhere in-between the perfectly smooth and obvious rivets. An some of the photos wings of active aircraft I found, you could see the rivets very faintly. I believe most of the rivets may have been puttied over and sanded smooth on active duty aircraft, but there were panels that were not puttied as they needed access to them. Here's an F-104G wing. You can see the rivets, but they are very faint except on the panels where access is needed. Certainly looks overall much smoother than the fuselage rivets.

 

Dear Mstor. The picture in your post is from the Belgian Air Force F-104G s/n FX-47 (c/n 9090) as preserved after restoration at the Beauvechain air base 1W Historical Centre.

http://www.wreckhunters.be/beauvechain-fx47.html

http://www.belgian-wings.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/Special Features/f104g_restored/fx47_restored.htm

http://www.flying-zone.be/galeries/2_gal_WA_FX47.php

https://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/f-104g_fx-47/index.php?Page=1

https://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/f-104g_fx-47/index.php?Page=2

 

V.P.

Edited by HomeBe

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8 hours ago, HomeBe said:

 

Oh well. Thanks. Anyone have nice close up wing pics of active duty 104s?

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23 hours ago, Vaildog said:

Why are people so salty about a new tooled subject from a manufacturer with an increasing commitment to quality?

 

 

I think its simply because they need to justify themselves that what they own now is fine and anything new cant possibly be better.

So canning a new kit comes very easy it simply makes people feel good.

Now i have a boat load of Hasegawa 48th 104’s and i bought a similar boatload of Daco correction and weapon sets and will be happy with those as i despised what Hasegawa did to the wing of the 104.

The wing looked terrible so if i didnt own a pile of correction sets that fix its biggest issue id be buying piles of Kinetic 104’s. Ill buy at least a couple to have a look as Kinetic are doing some great kits.

 

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On 5/30/2019 at 2:25 PM, Raymond Chung said:

Well, if you view from subject/maker matrix, you will see the data like this:

 

F-14 / endless supplier

F-4 / - ditto -

Mirage 2000 / Italeri, Heller and Kinetic

Mirage IIIE / - ditto -

F-16 / endless supplier

F-18 / MONOGRAM, Hasegawa, HobbyBoss, Kinetic

 

So, why the market cannot support another offer on F-104 where we only have 2 suppliers since 1972 till now ? 

 

I personally would rather have seen an F104c, as I wasn't impressed with the hasegawa kit. It was ok, and looked good shapewise. Yet boring! 

Gary

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10 minutes ago, ChesshireCat said:

I personally would rather have seen an F104c, as I wasn't impressed with the hasegawa kit. It was ok, and looked good shapewise. Yet boring! 

Gary

Word.  

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I want to build a Danish F-104 with all its variations in green color. I believe Danish F-104s were either ex-Canadian or ex-Luftwaffe F-104s.

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7 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

I personally would rather have seen an F104c, as I wasn't impressed with the hasegawa kit. It was ok, and looked good shapewise. Yet boring! 

Gary

Give 'em some time, a 104 lends it self to many versions from the same core airframe. Look how many versions of the F-16 and to  lesser extent the F-18 Kinetic has produced. I think we'll see a -104 C sooner rather than later IMHO.

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On 5/31/2019 at 3:36 AM, Raymond Chung said:

 

In terms research, we have hit the wall on F-16, Mirage 2000. But do you notice that since the F-5A/B series, we have not made major shape error mistakes since then? This is the result of our research workflow as well as the contribution from our contributor (our nake  name call GIB). 

 

Where does the Mirage 2000-5 stand after the move onto the new injection process, are there plans to re release the kit, as I’m still waiting for a replacement for the grossly inferior/defective  kit I was sold.

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On 6/1/2019 at 10:36 PM, Vaildog said:

Why are people so salty about a new tooled subject from a manufacturer with an increasing commitment to quality?

 

 

I was wondering that myself, specially for little plastic pieces that you glue together to get an approximation of a real thing.

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Sadly it seems to be an ARC thing. I don’t see it on other forums, at least not to the degree seen on ARC. 

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