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1/48 - Lockheed F-104G & J Starfighter by Kinetic - F-104G & J released - RoCAF boxing in Sept 2019

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3 hours ago, CF104 said:

This post is just meant to list a few detail differences and not a criticism of the kit itself. Over all it looks like it has a lot of options that the Hasegawa offering didn't give you in one box.

 

The first thing that I notice is the main landing gear liquid springs(oleos). The Kinetic ones are correct for an F-104G or newer. The Hasegawa kit had the smaller liquid springs which were good for all F-104's prior to the G including the CF-104 and F-104J. If you are going to build an F-104J or CF-104 out of this kit, the liquid springs are not correct.

 

Nice to see both ejection seat types offered in the kit. Although Hasegawa gave you the right seat depending on the boxing, both Kinetic and Hasegawa don't give the proper ejection seat rails for the Martin Baker seat. The MB seat is physically much larger than the Lockheed seat which resulted in the seat rails being moved aft giving a shorter headbox, lengthwise, behind the seat.

 

Next up are the wheels. The bulging is overdone for my tastes. I've never seen an operational F-104 with tires that bulged or flat looking. The main wheel options on this kit are not as varied as in the Hasegawa kits. The Kinetic kit looks to be offering only 2 types of main wheel. The wider F-104G and the narrow, non spoked version for the A to D. This means that the narrower F-104J and CF-104 spoked main wheels are not included.  

 

Looks like Kinetic have toned down the rivets that Hasegawa put all over the wings and rear fuselage but they could have gotten rid of a lot more in my opinion.

 

This one is specific to their future CF-104 release and my pet peeve. I know that there were a few difference between the main instrument panels on the F-104G depending on operator and the one included in this kit is more than adequate for the G. The CF-104 on the other hand was quite a bit different from any G model. The CF-104 main instrument panel was dominated by the large Attitude indicator in the top center of the panel. Only Black box has the correct instrument panel/cockpit in their CF-104 resin upgrade. It would be great to see a manufacturer do a correct CF-104 cockpit one day. 

 

These are all minor points which don't detract from the kit as long as it's looked at as being an F-104G only kit. Resin wheels, afterburner and ejection seat would be a must for me along with a more thorough decal sheet. I'm looking forward to receiving the 2 kits I have on order. 

 

Cheers,

John

 

John

 

Thanks so much for the input. I like your details especially on the seat and IP. I have pretty much every Black Box set so I will go have a look and see if I have that update set.

 

I for one am happy to see a new 104 even though I have pretty much all of the 1/48th ones including the ESCI (built 2 of those). Oh wait I don't think I have the very old Testors one. I did miss out on a Hasegawa C though so maybe when Kinetic does theirs I will be able to get one.

 

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2 hours ago, skyhawk174 said:

Oh wait I don't think I have the very old Testors one.

 

You can have mine.  Please.  Take it away, please take it away......   :bandhead2:  :bandhead2:  :bandhead2:  :bandhead2:  :bandhead2:

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Stalal, so do I, but that is between me and Lucky Model and of no relevance to the people following this thread.

 

Marc.

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21 hours ago, Mizar said:

3 years of research, can't find any better shots than this, by any chance do you guys have found anything to shut my curiosity down?

 

and yes, I'm talking about wing pylons with Sidewinder rails as I can't understand if in the middle there is a spacer/adapter or not

 

https://i.imgur.com/8uFI5p1.png

 

 

Luigi

 

That's interesting.  Never seen that adapter before.  But what I will say is that after collecting several thousand images of JASDF F-104J/DJ (I'm obsessed with them), that's the only photo I have ever seen with the AIM-9 launchers mounted on the wings like that.  It obviously existed, but it wasn't common, and that photo is of the first F-104J, so I suspect it was a test setup that was never adopted for service.  The JASDF used the "catamaran" launchers on the belly for their AIM-9s.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

 

That's interesting.  Never seen that adapter before.  But what I will say is that after collecting several thousand images of JASDF F-104J/DJ (I'm obsessed with them), that's the only photo I have ever seen with the AIM-9 launchers mounted on the wings like that.  It obviously existed, but it wasn't common, and that photo is of the first F-104J, so I suspect it was a test setup that was never adopted for service.  The JASDF used the "catamaran" launchers on the belly for their AIM-9s.

 

I kinda have more pictures

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/c36wize

 

Luigi

Edited by Mizar

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Cool!  Thanks for posting those Luigi.  I went back through my F-104J/DJ pics and I found a few with that mounting.  It still doesn't appear commonly, and based on known dates of some of the photos I have, it doesn't appear to have been used much past the early 1970s.  I love learning new stuff about airplanes that have been around for decades!

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To make a USAF F-104C out of the G, what will be needed. I may not want to wait for Raymond to do the C model.   Thank you everybody in advance!

 

Brad

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The main work would be to re-shape and re-scribe the vertical stabiliser and rudder from the large area G to the smaller area C, including the fairing over the exhaust nozzle. Not sure if that is really less work than fill some rivets on a Hasegawa C?

It looks like the early wheels are included in the Kinetic kit, but the oleos are the beefier G type ones. The C model used slimmer ones (on the other hand, Hasegawa only ever included the slimmer oleos in all their kits, incorrect for the G and S models, but I don't think I've ever seen a model where the builder addressed that issue).

Early exhaust nozzle, non-bulged MLG doors and C-2 seat are included as well.

If you use underwing pylons, they need to be mounted perpendicular to the wing though, as opposed to the G which had them perpendicular to the ground.

Cheers

Jeffrey

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I addition to what Jeffrey noted on the differences between a C and G, here are a couple more.

 

The wing tip tank horizontal fins are of equal span on both sides of the tank. The C has 2 short horizontal fins where as the G has the short fin on the outboard and a longer fin on the inboard. It's easy just to cut the longer fin down to make the C tank.

 

The Air Conditioning heat exchanger inlet on the lower electrical bay door(R/H side, below and aft of the cockpit) is a NACA scoop type on the C as opposed to a rectangular scoop on the G. Even Hasegawa got this wrong. There is a long out of production C resin update set from Cutting Edge which had the corrected NACA scoop.

 

The C didn't have the top glass fiber composite UHF and IFF antenna covers located just behind the cockpit on the main avionics bay hatch. These are normally seen as tan colored panels on the G. This can be corrected by filling in some panel lines.

 

The C main instrument panel was also different. The C had a smaller radius of the upper curve of the panel compared to the G. I don't even think there was a proper corrected aftermarket option for the C instrument panel.

 

Most C's can bee seen with an in-flight refueling probe whereas I've never seen an operational G with one installed. This can be robbed from a Hasegawa C kit.

 

Regardless the changes are numerous and I would just stay with the Hasegawa C in the meantime.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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Good points John,

I always thought the avionics A/C intake was already changed over to the ramp style by the time the C was introduced.... But I just checked a bunch of pics and indeed they all had the NACA type intake. Btw, the DACO set includes an NACA intake. Just the intake, not the whole panel as in the CE set.

Weird though as some late A models seem to have been updated with the newer panel with rectangular ramp.

 

J

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11 hours ago, CF104 said:

The Air Conditioning heat exchanger inlet on the lower electrical bay door(R/H side, below and aft of the cockpit) is a NACA scoop type on the C as opposed to a rectangular scoop on the G. Even Hasegawa got this wrong. There is a long out of production C resin update set from Cutting Edge which had the corrected NACA scoop.

 

I thought the NACA intake was only on the F-104A??

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

 

I thought the NACA intake was only on the F-104A??

 

Nope, the A and C had the same NACA heat exchanger inlet on the lower electrical bay door. The F-104G, CF-104 and F-104J introduced the rectangular inlet.

 

Cheers,

 

John

Edited by CF104

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2 hours ago, JeffreyK said:

Good points John,

I always thought the avionics A/C intake was already changed over to the ramp style by the time the C was introduced.... But I just checked a bunch of pics and indeed they all had the NACA type intake. Btw, the DACO set includes an NACA intake. Just the intake, not the whole panel as in the CE set.

Weird though as some late A models seem to have been updated with the newer panel with rectangular ramp.

 

J

Hey Jeffrey,

 

As far as I can tell all operational A and C models had the NACA intake. There are very few preserved F-104A's with the rectangular intake but I still can't find any in-service photos of an A or C model with them. Any preserved A or C with a rectangular intake most likely have a donor panel from an F-104G.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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On 6/15/2019 at 8:48 AM, Raymond Chung said:

Yes the part for CF-104 is there except the decal

 

On 6/12/2019 at 11:17 PM, Colin K said:

Don't tease me!!!

 

Seriously....a new 1/48 Tutor, would be most welcome.  With this F-104 kit, I welcome it and I am excited!  I just like the fact that underwing tanks and pylons are included.  The Hasegawa 2-seaters at least added underwing pylons, but that's it.

 

Raymond.....will the kit include the radar warning receivers, that were near the exhaust and under the nose, which were on Canadian CF-104s?

 

It was in the works when Rick was still with us, his enthusiasm was likely the driving force.

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39 minutes ago, Scooby said:

 

 

It was in the works when Rick was still with us, his enthusiasm was likely the driving force.

I'm enthusiastic about a new Tutor.  If it was in the works, I want to find out how to get it rolling again.  How about it, Raymond?

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2 hours ago, Colin K said:

If it was in the works, I want to find out how to get it rolling again.  How about it, Raymond?

 

The entire modelling population of Malaysia are anxiously awaiting a CL-41G Tebuan to hit the shelves.  :woot.gif:

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12 hours ago, Colin K said:

I'm enthusiastic about a new Tutor.  If it was in the works, I want to find out how to get it rolling again.  How about it, Raymond?

And a 1/48th Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck family...

 

V.P.

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3 minutes ago, HomeBe said:

And a 1/48th Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck family...

 

V.P.

 

+1

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On 7/10/2019 at 8:11 PM, Raymond Chung said:

 

A small eng issue on injection create a 2 weeks delay. I will show the sprue photo sooner today.

 

The kit is planned to go out around 15-20/July. 

 

Hey Raymond,

 

Do you have an update on the delivery delay? Looking forward to getting the 2 I ordered.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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On 5/30/2019 at 10:24 PM, Raymond Chung said:

Yes 

 

In the past 10 years we have made a lot of unique aircraft that no other maker did before like E2 S2 M346.... and also try to make a balance between price quality and subject. 

 

But after when we upgrade our tooling quality, our choice of subjects would become narrowed. As we need more qty sold to offset the cost for higher quality tooling. For example, when everyone is excited with our Su33 release and look down on the F-18 release. The F-18 selling result is way better than the Su33. And we have the figures forecast the F-18 is 8 times more than Su33 in 5 years time selling period.

 

So in order to offer some niche item  we need to do some mainstream subject to keep our book balance. 

 

Thr bottom line is we are running a business and we need profit to drive the operation. We do not want to be a modeller crazy brand but we never able to keep afloat or deliver the product. 

 

Raymond

Hi Raymond, based on your mainstream subject theory, have you ever considering doing a A-10 Warthog in 1/48? Its a quite mainstream subject that has been neglected for too long. HB did one a long time ago it many feel it missed the mark.
 

Regards,

J

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5 hours ago, nachjager said:

Hi Raymond, based on your mainstream subject theory, have you ever considering doing a A-10 Warthog in 1/48? Its a quite mainstream subject that has been neglected for too long. HB did one a long time ago it many feel it missed the mark.
 

Regards,

J

Sorry to tell you A-10 is never a mainstream subject. - One Operator - 2 scheme only.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Raymond Chung said:

Sorry to tell you A-10 is never a mainstream subject. - One Operator - 2 scheme only.

 

For "mainstream" you should do an F-4 Phantom II line. Variations, users and schemes up the ying yang. You can't get more mainstream. Hasegawa's line are OK but getting a bit long in the tooth. ZM are doing their thing, but their kits aren't cheap. If you could do a quality F-4 lineup and undercut ZM I'd be selling off my Hasegawa kits.

Edited by Mstor

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8 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

For "mainstream" you should do an F-4 Phantom II line. Variations, users and schemes up the ying yang. You can't get more mainstream. Hasegawa's line are OK but getting a bit long in the tooth. ZM are doing their thing, but their kits aren't cheap. If you could do a quality F-4 lineup and undercut ZM I'd be selling off my Hasegawa kits.

Yes if you could price them the same as your Hornet kits they would sell. The Academy kit is nice but fiddly to build and the ZM kit is not cheap.

 

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