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ya-gabor

Su-57 from Zvezda, completely new!!!

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Posted (edited)

I dont know if this has been shown already or not. Fresh announcement from Zvezda for a brand new 72 nd scale Sukhoy Su-57 fighter. Look at the engine exhausts!

It is a completely new tool kit with all the latest additions and using the available data. At last we can forget for good that “strage” kit of the T-50 from way back in 2011.

 

Just hope that they will do the same up-scale to 48 th as they did with the Yak-130.

 

 

OU4YV5F.jpg

 

 

mupbVq6.jpg

 

 

 

4yBdB3L.jpg

 

 

 

3iCTc6e.jpg

 

 

 

a4cckFZ.jpg

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor

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I have to agree and would like to see a 48th scale version too!

But what we have here is a 72nd one. Everyone has a wish list but when something is released it is important to spend a little time on that particular kit. Having seen the recent Su family releases from Zvezda there are many fine details even in this smaller scale. And also innovation with parts breakdown, arrangement of parts and many new ideas!

 

Don’t forget that for the Russian Zvezda the primary market is its home customers and there the 72 scale is dominant by far! I am sure they want to see how the kits is doing before investing into something bigger.

 

We also have to know that apart from yesterdays release of these images at the moment nothing more is known of this new kit. Who knows when the actual plastic is going to be in hand. I would say it is only from there that one can start the count down for a 48th version (if it is ever going to be produced). Seeing the Pe-2, the Yak-130 from Zvezda there is a chance but . . .

 

So lets wait and see what more news comes out about this kit.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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I would also like to see a 1/48th scale version, but in the meantime I'm very impressed by the fact that they have decided to make a better 1/72nd scale kit of a kit they were already producing. I do occasionally build 1/72nd scale models and this particular beauty may be worth that little diversion.

 

Just my personal opinion though: It appears that in the next year or two we will see the first production aircraft roll off the manufacturing line. It is pretty likely that there will be numerous detail differences between those and the prototypes that are currently flying (each of which differs markedly also from the other). So, personally, I would rather wait a few years and see them do a 1/48th scale model of the early production aircraft. Of course, there are a lot of people who specifically like models of prototypes, but personally I would be more interested in building a production aircraft from an operational unit.

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There is absolutely no guaranty that Zvezda will ever do a 48th version!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the moment we will have to do with the 72 nd kit. And only hope for a bigger version . . .

 

I am sure the Zvezda designers were in great problem when putting together this CAD. Which particular aircraft to base it on. Surely there will be changes with time, up-grades, back dated modifications,  pre-production series, production, batch No.1, Mark 1, Mk 2 . . .

 

Should a kit manufacturer wait for a “final” version? What is a final, "production" version? Will it be a “final” version? Or the next day something new comes up, due to service experiences new modifications come in.

 

If one looks at these CAD images the new and would be operational engine exhaust is already visible there! So I think Zvezda is trying to look ahead.

 

Hasegawa made a fortune with the MiG-25 kit immediately after Belenkos run back in late 1970’s. Minimal info was available but at the time it was all and the best. The kit then and there was a success! Of course now 40-50 years later we know more, but back then (I was one of the first to go out and get that kit from Seagull Models!!!) .  :)))  Should Hasegawa waited for more info back in 1977? Dont think so!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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13 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

There is absolutely no guaranty that Zvezda will ever do a 48th version!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we all understand that. In fact, until the release of the Yak-130, my expectation was for no 1/48th scale jets from them at all - at least it has now become a possibility since they have released at least one (very good) 1/48th scale kit.

 

Quote

Should a kit manufacturer wait for a “final” version? What is a final, "production" version? Will it be a “final” version? Or the next day something new comes up, due to service experiences new modifications come in.

That is why I was quite specific by saying that I would prefer to wait until the first production aircraft has rolled off the production line, rather than saying we should wait for a "final version". In fact, I was quite careful to avoid the word "final": being an aerospace engineer, I have often been personally involved in changes to operational aircraft during their lifetime. I have no illusion about the existence of some static final configuration that remains frozen in every detail. Nevertheless, it is quite common to see major changes going from prototype to production aircraft versions, while those changes usually become smaller as the production versions evolve. I prefer that, if it happens that the moulds represent a specific moment in the evolution of an aircraft type, it is representative of a version that ended up in an operational squadron, rather than being representative of an early once-off prototype. But, as I also stated, it is only my personal opinion.

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You are right in every way, have to agree.

 

The problem that I see is where do you draw a line and say this is the final Production version. Will we know about it? Will Sukhoy say this is it, the true final version now? Don’t think so. They show only little now that conflicts are becoming more and more between the big powers. It’s no longer what we had 15-20 years ago.

 

In the past years we have seen a lot of changes since the first proto flew. I believe that by now the most / future changes will be made internally (which of course will show on the outside with few new panels, sensors or antennas) but they would be an easy correction if at all.

 

Remember KH doing the "production Su-35" in 48th scale only to find out that the first PRODUCTION batch is different from the ones going to service units. So . . .

 

This is still only a CAD and we have no idea where the project stands at the moment at Zvezda. Here it is still easy to do changes, corrections when some new information surfaces.

 

At least it is good to see that Zvezda took the step to redo from scratch this T-50/Su-57 after 7-8 years of releasing that forgettable kit! ( I still have it. Anyone???? :)))  )

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Hi Gabor

 

I hear what you are saying and in principle I don't disagree with anything, except for my opinion of what constitutes a mature (once again, not "final") design. Historically, and in all the real-world projects that I have been vaguely involved with (I worked in flight test), there were significant changes going from the last prototype to the first production aircraft (or aircraft store). Changes continue as the aircraft further matures, but if I was a model kit manufacturer, I would have preferred to see that first official production aircraft with my own eyes before finalizing the moulds.  It is a simple distinction of where I draw my personal line, and this is to avoid what we have seen historically with model kit manufacturers basing their kits on a prototype and then having difficulty to catch up with operational configurations - the Hasegawa 1/72nd scale F-15E is a good example. If it changes further after the first production run, so be it. In most cases it would be easier to keep up with those changes compared to the case where you started your moulds with a pre-production prototype.

 

I bought the old 1/72nd scale Zvezda T-50 right after it came out. I haven't built it yet, not only because of its known shortcomings, but also because I simply prefer to build an aircraft from an operational squadron rather than a prototype. If I was to replace it with this new 1/72nd scale kit, I would probably wait to see if I can indeed build an operational aircraft from it.

 

As you said initially, this discussion is moot: There is no 1/48th scale Su-57 on Zvezda's near-term horizon. If they eventually decide to do one, the first production aircraft would almost certainly have reached operational squadrons anyway, so one can expect them to incorporate all the latest changes into such a hypothetical kit.  From that point of view, and considering that I prefer 1/48th scale, I'm actually quite happy that they are re-doing the 1/72nd scale model first.

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Hi Mfezi

 

 

 Life is too short, so lets have a kit now and see what comes after that!  :))))

 

Actually if there is ever going to be a 48th scale version in future, this 72nd could be a good test. See how it goes, what has changed, what we did wrong in the first place, correct it all and come out with a near perfect (and operational) version.  :)  Lets see.

 

Speaking of paint schemes it is not going to be any easy one. I did like that early Shark grey but I think that was the one which had an engine burn and they never returned to it with all those soft oversprays. The new "digitals" are interesting but as far as I can see none are identical, everyone is a freehand experiment. So some difficult times ahead! 

 

Concerning that early T-50 kit (Mark 2011) will only be good as plastic kit making history (and failure) example to compare with new ones. I try to sell my, if there is still anyone interested in it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Right now I wish that Namco could or would have been more creative with their Su-57 schemes

 

Luigi

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9 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

You are right in every way, have to agree.

 

The problem that I see is where do you draw a line and say this is the final Production version. Will we know about it? Will Sukhoy say this is it, the true final version now? Don’t think so. They show only little now that conflicts are becoming more and more between the big powers. It’s no longer what we had 15-20 years ago.

 

In the past years we have seen a lot of changes since the first proto flew. I believe that by now the most / future changes will be made internally (which of course will show on the outside with few new panels, sensors or antennas) but they would be an easy correction if at all.

 

Remember KH doing the "production Su-35" in 48th scale only to find out that the first PRODUCTION batch is different from the ones going to service units. So . . .

 

This is still only a CAD and we have no idea where the project stands at the moment at Zvezda. Here it is still easy to do changes, corrections when some new information surfaces.

 

At least it is good to see that Zvezda took the step to redo from scratch this T-50/Su-57 after 7-8 years of releasing that forgettable kit! ( I still have it. Anyone???? :)))  )

 

Best regards

Gabor

Was it that bad?

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1 hour ago, B.Sin said:

Was it that bad?

:)))))))))))

 

Yes!!!!!! There is no point in going into it. It was designed based on completely wrong data from the aircraft designers. Not only the details but the complete shape is off . . .

 

Best regards

Gabor

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44 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

:)))))))))))

 

Yes!!!!!! There is no point in going into it. It was designed based on completely wrong data from the aircraft designers. Not only the details but the complete shape is off . . .

 

Best regards

Gabor

Thank you.

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On 6/14/2019 at 5:01 PM, Falconxlvi said:

Very cool!  I’m curious what camo schemes will be in the box as well.  

 

Pixel painitng - all late pre-productional T-50s painted only by this scheme, i'm supose first serial Su-57s will paint in this scheme too. About Su-57s in 1-48 - maybe sometimes in future, but i'm not owner of Zvezda - so its only my guess.

 

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Based on previous experience when the box art and full box design is shown the release is not far away.

 

It is a brand new tooling and has some 122 parts. Decal as could be expected is fairly restricted in choices but when you look at photos of the first aircraft I am sure one can find some interesting alternative schemes.

 

Look forward to it.

 

EDOzePF.jpg

 

Laby9th.jpg

 

 

o7CHQwO.jpg

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 1:54 AM, A.C.Acikgoz said:

need an 1/48 one, before Kittyhawk release their own if possible...

Sorry double posting.....

Edited by flybywire

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And here are the sprues from Zvezda fake book page.

 

 

qI5cjMu.jpg

 

DCGCja3.jpg

 

 

w4MN32H.jpg

 

 

k40Luhe.jpg

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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If l wanted to do the early splinter scheme would there be any changes needed to backdate the kit ?

 

Thanks

Robert

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Posted (edited)

Looks promising, and certainly a massive step up from the original Zvezda T-50 kit which was nothing short of a disaster. I can't tell 100% certainly, but are the exhaust dropping (like they should be in a resting position) on the finished build on the box? Levcon's should be dropping too, but they are certainly able to be dropped as they are separate parts. Really hoping it will be out and available by the time i will be in Moscow for MAKS!

 

13 hours ago, Tomcat Trebor said:

If l wanted to do the early splinter scheme would there be any changes needed to backdate the kit ?

 

Thanks

Robert

 

That is a good question, and the short answer is yes. What kind of changes exactly, will depend on what frame you pick.

  • Wingtips as they are in the kit, are technically only correct for T-50-1 and -2.
  • I can't tell with certainty, but the base intakes under the vertical stabs appear to be angled inwards, which is correct for T-50-3 and prototypes after it.
  • The stinger, atleast judging from the CAD's appears to be one found on "Phase 2" frames, from T-50-6-2 and onwards. Same with the double tooth main landing gear doors and the badly (judging from the build pics) represented airbleed on the side of the intakes.

In short, the kit should be a decent starting block but if you want to backdate it really correct to early frames, you would need to shorten the stinger at the very least. The airbleed on the intakes and double tooth is easy enough to change. The intakes base under the vertical stabs is definitely not, so all in all, seems the easiest and most correct conversion (unless one ignore the base intakes) to an early frame with splinter would be either T-50-3 or -4.

Edited by Berkut

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Thanks Gabor.

I'm definitely getting one of these (and probably the Kittyhawk 1/48 version next year, if it's as good as the Zvezda).

 

The Zvezda 1/72 Su-33 is a stunner, so if the Su-57 is as good it should be a winner. The Su-57 is one of those subjects that needs to be bought in every available double-digit scale. 

 

I like the earlier testbed colour schemes more (as in Berkut's avatar) but the pixellated one will grow on me, given a suitable set of airframe masks with which to help spray the pattern.

 

Obviously, there's scope for AM once the bay arrangement is in the public domain, but I think it looks good clean. 

 

Thanks again Gabor.

 

Tony 

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I think I've mentioned it before, but I wish Zvezda did more of these releases in 1/48 scale. Their 1/72 scale kits are real impressive.

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