Dutch Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) Does anyone know the angle to cut for the RACF/CAF Red/White/Red lightning bolt stripes at the nose of their aircraft? Were they the same for all aircraft? I have some straight CAF stripe and as long as I know the angle, I can make consistent cuts so that the cut stripes will match up correctly, much like matching moulding cuts in carpentry. Edited June 25, 2019 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 No, depended on the airframe. The ones I have had to make myself "tended" to be closer to 45 degrees then the 60 or so above. Making one soon for a 1/144 Cosmo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi Guys I have the official markings guide for the Canadian forces in my library. It is a BIG BIG book. If I remember correctly it has all the info for the roundels, letters and numbers for the aircraft. I am sure I saw that drawing in there. I think the date is around mid 60s? Anyway let me have a look and see what I can find. Not sure I can scan it as it is bigger than my scanner for sure but maybe I can take a picture of the page? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 @phantom I am doing it for a 1/72 Cosmo! I suspect that 45 deg may be too steep and my drawing above was a quick 5 min sketch on powerpoint, definitely not accurate nor to scale. Purely for illustration purposes. @skyhawk174 Yes! That would be terrific. Especially if you could post a scan of the appropriate page. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flyboyf18 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just be aware that those drawings were a guide!!! By all means take the info BUT before acting on it compare to pics of the real a/c. I have seen this book and compared the drawings to the real birds and in some cases there were large differences between book and what the paint shop applied to the a/c!! Sometimes it's a long way from the table where the plans are to the a/c you are painting!! HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, Dutch said: @phantom I am doing it for a 1/72 Cosmo! I suspect that 45 deg may be too steep and my drawing above was a quick 5 min sketch on powerpoint, definitely not accurate nor to scale. Purely for illustration purposes. @skyhawk174 Yes! That would be terrific. Especially if you could post a scan of the appropriate page. Will try to scan at work since it has a bigger scanner. Have not tried to upload directly here but I can try. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) It is a big book as I said and It was easier for me to take a pic instead of scan. Edited June 26, 2019 by skyhawk174 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Looks like your drawing was pretty close to the official drawings Dutch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 @skyhawk174 Perfect! Those measurements help tremendously! Can you take a close-up photo of the tail flag and serial number dimensions and the dimensions for the Canadian Armed Forces / Forces Armees Canadiennes fuselage titles please? Oh, can I ask that you do the same for the CP-107 Argus as well please? [my email: vertol(dash)107(at)hotmail(dot)com] So is it true that each aircraft is different as Pahntom asserted above? It is a plausible asusmption based on the differing fuselage size and height of window line above centerline or whatever datum is the reference datum. For instance, the top of the lightning bolt on the Argus aligns with the top of the cockpit window, though it intersects no fuselage window. The top of the Cosmo lightning bolt aligns with the bottom of the cockpit window, but the diagram states that it is to be centered on the fuselage window line. @phantom Now that I know the mx, I can calcuate the angles. I will post a new diagram later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Dutch I will bring in the book and see if I can scan sections. I am sure there is an Argus section in it. Now that I see the photos I think I can scan it better. Also, I had to resample the photo I took and shrink it from the 3.5Mb to less than 102 Kb to post here. Do you want me to email you the original size ones? I had more. By the way I had forgotten I had this book so thanks for the reminder. It is so big so it does not fit on any shelf I have so lives on the top along with my posters and other crap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) From the diagram below, I wish to determine the angle black/red in order to make my CAF stripe cuts. I can deduce that angle black/red is one half the value of the angle black/blue. While I cannot determine the length of blue from the diagram, I know the length black (88.25”) and can roughly determine the height green (49.25”). I can then use a basic geometry calculation to determine the angle black/blue. Tan (of angle) Theta = opposite / adjacent Theta = tan-1 (opposite / adjacent) Theta = tan-1 (49.25/88.25) = tan-1 (.55807) Theta = 29.164 deg Let’s round up to 30 deg as my height measurement may be off a little. Remember, this is the blue angle, so the red angle is half the blue value, or 15 deg. I can live with that. Edited June 26, 2019 by Dutch Correct spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, skyhawk174 said: Dutch I will bring in the book and see if I can scan sections. I am sure there is an Argus section in it. Now that I see the photos I think I can scan it better. Also, I had to resample the photo I took and shrink it from the 3.5Mb to less than 102 Kb to post here. Do you want me to email you the original size ones? I had more. By the way I had forgotten I had this book so thanks for the reminder. It is so big so it does not fit on any shelf I have so lives on the top along with my posters and other crap. Chris, Yes, please email me the original scans. I suspect that the Argus angle is steeper, just from looking at photos. I have a few items like that, that lie flat atop my WAPJ 43 volume set, yet still stick out from the bookcase. R/ Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Hey Dutch I can give you a CAD drawing for those stripes if you need. I will check for Argus too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 https://www.canmilair.com/products.php?cat=2 Dutch Patrick Martin has made books for RCAF/CAF finishing guides. Very valuable for information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) On 6/25/2019 at 1:57 PM, skyhawk174 said: Hi Guys I have the official markings guide for the Canadian forces in my library. It is a BIG BIG book. If I remember correctly it has all the info for the roundels, letters and numbers for the aircraft. And you are telling me now? haha All those hours I spent drawing those fonts and many variations of maple leaves...sigh Edited June 26, 2019 by KursadA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, KursadA said: And you are telling me now? haha All those hours I spent drawing those fonts and many variations of maple leaves...sigh I am so sorry Kursad. I did not even think of telling you since you are the master of markings I figured you had this info already. Also, a lot of the book is for very old stuff/ Date on book is 1968. There is a section on fonts and numbers. Any use still? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Emvar said: https://www.canmilair.com/products.php?cat=2 Dutch Patrick Martin has made books for RCAF/CAF finishing guides. Very valuable for information. Yeah, I know. I used to have one or two of them, but sold my whole library to one of the aviation book re-sellers ~20 years ago in a fit of desperation. Anyway. I may go for that, but I have other Canadian picture books for cheap. I have USAF/US ARMY & USN/USMC official marking guides in .pdf format, so was hoping to locate this one in .pdf as well. R/ Dutch 😎 Edited June 27, 2019 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 hours ago, KursadA said: And you are telling me now? haha All those hours I spent drawing those fonts and many variations of maple leaves...sigh Well thank goodness there is only one drawing of a roundel LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 There are drawings like this though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 United Nations anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) Chris, yes those are all very useful to decal manufacturers like Kursad, and you should share what you can with them. As for my original request for CC-109 & CP-107 markings, I have a small stash of the old generic Arrow Graphics or Can-Force stripe and titles sheets and a couple of the newer Leading Edge roundel and serial sheets and can piece together a 1/72 Cosmo or Argus, as those subjects will probably not generate a sheet of their own. R/ Dutch Edited June 27, 2019 by Dutch correct spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Dutch said: Chris, yes those are all very useful to decal manufacturers like Kursad, and you should share what you can with them. As for my original request for CC-109 & CP-207 markings, I ican buy the old generic Arrow Graphics or Can-Force stripe and titles sheets or the newer Leading Edge roundel and serial sheets and piece together a 1/72 Cosmo or Argus, as those subjects will probably not generate a sheet of their own. R/ Dutch Wow you can still get the Arrow Decals sheets? I have several of those as well as old LEM generic sheets. Hope they work okay. Here is an index of what the book contains Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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