ESzczesniak Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Would anyone have some personal tips to share? I moved from Tamiya/Model Master to Vallejo a couple years ago. Vallejo has worked well for me, but the color accuracy is terrible and sometimes instead of mixing pain, you just want to spray dark ghost gray or whatever. So I've kept Model Master around for this. I was interested in trying the AMMO paints since they seem to do better for color accuracy and got my first bottles a few days ago. I have not messed with them a lot yet, but was unimpressed on my first go. It was not the worst/roughest surface, but nothing like the silky smooth surface I can get out of a Tamiya or Model Master Acryl flat paint. I sprayed as recommended straight from the bottle at about 18 PSI through a H&S Infinity 0.4 mm nozzle in about 3 coats total to get full coverage. It wasn't a full orange peel surface, but not all that smooth. And I got a fair bit of tip dry. Lowering the PSI actually made the problem worse and raising it did not help much. It seems they in fact do need thinning (they look thick out of the bottle) and maybe some retarder. A Google search turned up some other people with similar experience, but most of them seemed to just stop using the paints rather than sharing solutions So I was wondering if anyone had some of their personal tricks? What thinner's work well, PSI, etc? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I think they are very similar to Vallejo and may even be bottled for Ammo by Vallejo. If you don't have Ammo specific thinners etc. I'd just try Vallejo products as a test. Just don't test on something you are working on, use an old kit as a paint test bed...I try new paints all the time and experimentation is KEY to any new product that you try. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I have no problems spraying them and they work fine for me. I only use their brand thinner. My only recommendation is to use a primer first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Napalmakita Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I've used them exclusively for a couple years now...about 8 builds, and I think they are great. Make sure you really mix them well.,.rattle the mixing balls in the bottles for a couple minutes. Spray slowly and build up the coats gradually, they aren't made to cover in one coat. I usually break the model up into sections..lightly do the sections of a wing, then do the other wing, turn it over and do the other sides. Sometimes I'll just focus on one panel at a time. Breaking it up into sections gives just enough time for each one to dry as you put a coat on the other. A few rotations of the model as you go and step by step the coat will start to cover nicely. It takes practice to dial in but I find a higher pressure(around 20) works well. If it's dusty move the brush closer. As for thinning I use the Ammo acrylic thinner and I've used the Tamiya acrylic thinner...white cap I believe, but for general coverage I don't thin them at all. I also use the Ammo one shot primer and it's also worked fantastic. They are a little different and take getting used to but the ease of use, easy clean up and absolutely zero fumes is worth it . At this point I'm getting fantastic results and honestly can't see myself switching to anything else. I've done commission builds for pilots and they absolutely loved em... so, with some practice the paints can get you a really nice result. Hope this helps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishwelding Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) It happens that I'm experimenting with Ammo paints for the first time this week. (I threw together an old ESCI BMP-2 to test 'em.) I use an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS (gravity feed) with the .5mm needle/tip. One Shot primer went on beautifully, and was a breeze to airbrush. I use a mac valve to fine-tune at low pressures, so I was probably around 15 PSI. It should appear wet on the model, and if you live in a humid climate (I do) it make take more than a minute to flash over, but it doesn't run easily and shrinks down nicely. It dries to the touch in a few minutes, but even after two days was not particularly hard, and I was able to scratch it off with light fingernail pressure. The paint went on well, but it seems tricky. It requires no thinning, but I found it dried in my airbrush tip, a problem I haven't experienced with paint (Vallejo, Acryl/Model Master, Mission Models) in a while. Early I saw odd fish-eyes, but they disappeared after another pass or two. Coverage was excellent, but as Napalmakita suggests, it really requires multiple passes. I could spray it in tight lines, and in single passes it's fantastic for blending and shading, but it didn't atomize quite as nicely as I'd like. It was very tolerant if I sprayed on too much. A pool of paint blended perfectly with surrounding paint, rather than leave a visible tide mark, but if I had done that on a vertical surface I may have suffered a run. I'll give it a few days to cure, and then will try a masking tape test. I won't use paints that do not endure Tamiya tape, so that's a major test for me. My next airbrush test will be around 20 PSI, although with other acrylics I tend to have trouble where the paint dries before adhering, when shot at higher pressure. Still, I hope this will improve atomization and stop the tip-drying issue. I'll need to put together another test subject to do that, though. I was even able to brush paint the mantlet cover with an Ammo color, although I let it dry on a palette for awhile before attempting it, and other colors probably require multiple coats. Edited August 1, 2020 by Fishwelding Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Napalmakita Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Sounds about right Fishwelding...tip drying is an issue but I just keep a damp paper towel near by and give the needle a gentle wipe every few passes. The paint is made to go on in light coats but is very forgiving in my experience. I find moving the gun a little closer to the model has improved the finish a bit. I use tamiya tape exclusively and as long as I let the paint fully cure there has never been an issue. It took some trial and error but at this point I'm on auto pilot with this stuff and really like the ease of use/clean up and final result. The clear coats I'm 50/50 on. I do a lot of post decal weathering and can put a beating on final clear coats. I've used the Ammo gloss, flat and satin but lately have stuck with future and model master dull coat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishwelding Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 What I wouldn't mind knowing is what the behavioral difference is between One Shot primer, and Ammo's other primer line. Is the other primer somehow different than One Shot, so that Ammo sells both simultaneously? I bought a bottle of that primer - in Russian Armor green, no less - but elected to try the One Shot stuff first, since I'd heard good things about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Napalmakita Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fishwelding said: What I wouldn't mind knowing is what the behavioral difference is between One Shot primer, and Ammo's other primer line. Is the other primer somehow different than One Shot, so that Ammo sells both simultaneously? I bought a bottle of that primer - in Russian Armor green, no less - but elected to try the One Shot stuff first, since I'd heard good things about it. I couldn't tell you anything about the science, that's way out of my pay grade. What I can say is that I used the original primer (black and rust) and it had a thicker, dusty finish and took more passes to get an even coat. The one shot goes on more evenly and leaves a silky finish with just enough bite. Not sure what the difference in Formula is but the one shot is noticeably better Edited July 5, 2019 by Napalmakita Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nachjager Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Napalmakita said: I couldn't tell you anything about the science, that's way out of my pay grade. What I can say is that I used the original primer (black and rust) and it had a thicker, dusty finish and took more passes to get an even coat. The one shot goes on more evenly and leaves a silky finish with just enough bite. Not sure what the difference in Formula is but the one shot is noticeably better FYI, One Shot primers are just repackaged Badger's Stynelrez. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I've slowly made the switch to Ammo, Hataka (lacquer) and AK Real colors. Along with Tamiya, these are my four "go to" paints now. Of the three (Ammo/Hat/AK), I have found Ammo the easiest to use. Using the Grex XGi, it's been as easy as dropping the paint in the color cup and spraying. I have yet to use thinner or primer and have had excellent results. The combination of Ammo and the Grex has increased my model building output by leaps and bounds. The color accuracy is pretty damn good as well (Vallejo is the worst in this department). My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishwelding Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) In my first tape tests, both the paint itself, and clearcoat resist tearing or peeling with full-strength Tamiya tape. This is over One Shot primer. The gloss varnish seems eager to run, but then dried with a slight pebble texture. It wanted to gloss up fairly quickly, without having to build it up. For decaling and wash purposes it's adequate, and I suspect that if I really tried different spraying methods I might get it smoother. (I probably won't; if I'm painting a car model I'd use different products anyway.) Where it did run, it shrank as it set up, and will probably be invisible without sanding it down, after I apply more (matte, this time) varnish. This BMP will endure strong decals sets, some washing with white spirits, and probably some other chemicals before finishing, so testing continues. Rarely do I have a perfect experience with a new paint. But I like what I see, and will continue experimenting with Ammo. Maybe I'll mess around with their older primer, too, just to see if I can get good results with different pressure and mixture regimes. To the original poster, some suggestions: If you haven't one, consider purchasing a mac valve for your airbrush. I suspect many modelers are like me, and probably use a pressure gauge that's really meant for larger air tools. Down below 25 PSI it's probably a bit vague. That mac valve can give you precise control over your air pressure, and you quickly acquire a feel for how to use it. It's improved my airbrushing a lot, particularly with water- or alcohol-based paints ("acrylics.") Take the needle guard off the front of the brush. I think with quick-drying paints, particularly, it can introduce dried paint into the air stream that can accelerate needle tip-drying and can interfere with atomization. The Ammo colors I used did not require thinning. But if you want to try it, I suggest starting with Ammo's own thinner. In the last few years I've been methodically tested a variety of paints. In each case, I buy at least one bottle of the manufacturer's thinner. If things go badly, it isn't because I tried some non-recommended thinner. If the paint works well, I'll then introduce different thinners (ISO, distilled water) to compare with OEM. Check YouTube for tutorials. It seems most of the "Millennial" manufacturers have created tutorials there to show you how to use their products. Your mileage may vary; if it's a dry season in Spain, that's nothing like mid-Atlantic U.S. where our humidity will influence paint. But still, start with what they say and experiment from there. Edited August 1, 2020 by Fishwelding Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishwelding Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 8:47 AM, Dave Roof said: My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab. That's impressive work! It looks like you had pretty good control for shading with that stuff, which I find is a challenge with acrylics. Based on your comment I have some Hataka Orange Line MERDC colors coming in the mail. The only lacquers I've used (besides Alclad, I suppose) is Gunze. I'll be interested to compare the two lines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Napalmakita Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 8:47 AM, Dave Roof said: I've slowly made the switch to Ammo, Hataka (lacquer) and AK Real colors. Along with Tamiya, these are my four "go to" paints now. Of the three (Ammo/Hat/AK), I have found Ammo the easiest to use. Using the Grex XGi, it's been as easy as dropping the paint in the color cup and spraying. I have yet to use thinner or primer and have had excellent results. The combination of Ammo and the Grex has increased my model building output by leaps and bounds. The color accuracy is pretty damn good as well (Vallejo is the worst in this department). My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab. 100% ! drop in the cup and go to town. Set up time and the fact that I can spray multiple colors in one sitting by simply blowing tap water through my brush between each color means I can knock out steps that used to take days in only a few hours. I've been spraying for a week on my latest project and haven't taken apart my airbrush once. No fumes, great range of accurate colors and a ton of weathering products designed to work with each other simplifies the process too. I'm a big fan. Sweet Huey btw Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just my two cents - I've been using Ammo thinned 50/50 with Mr Leveling Thinner and it's been behaving quite well for me, spraying between 15 and 25 psi depending on the application. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
velosirraptor1 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Amo Jimenez and mig* paint have the thinning solution, buy for that brand and thin paint enough to pulverized in a uniform manner some times have to be coated various times and seal after dried this are not mom acrilic paint for handcrafts that can be use with a brush dry technique . 50/50 some paints are for airbrush and come with a dropper even those can be thinned to have better flowing . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Natas_Machine Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 How much of a 1.7ml bottle of paint should I expect to go through for say an area about the size of a 1/35 scale tank? I am painting an Optimus Prime 1/35 scale and went through almost an entire bottle of Metallic Warhead Ammo paint for only the blue areas. I was using about 25psi. I really like these paints, and have used them quite a bit for 75mm minis using a brush but and my first time airbrushing the paint and primer went on smooth! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) On 6/29/2019 at 7:44 AM, ESzczesniak said: I sprayed as recommended straight from the bottle at about 18 PSI through a H&S Infinity 0.4 mm nozzle in about 3 coats total to get full coverage. It wasn't a full orange peel surface, but not all that smooth. So far I haven't experienced much issues spraying Ammo paints straight out of the bottle through my H&S Evolution CR plus with a 0.2mm nozzle at 15-16 psi. The surface is fairly smooth, but since Ammo pigment particles are noticeably larger than both Tamiya and Gunze Aqueous, the finish will not be as smooth. You want to put down multiple light coats and use your airbrush to blow only air onto the paint to speed up drying time between coats. Edited January 12, 2021 by RichardL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 7/5/2019 at 5:47 AM, Dave Roof said: The color accuracy is pretty damn good as well (Vallejo is the worst in this department). Regarding Ammo 36375 color accuracy, I would beg to differ. Neither Ammo nor Vallejo is close. Ammo is too cyan and Vallejo is too green: Both lack the slight purple tint that exists in the actual FS 36375. To get better color match from true water based acrylic paints, one needs to back at least three decades: Model Master Acryl on the left. Pactra Acrylic on the right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusNut Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) Duplicate Edited January 13, 2021 by JesusNut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusNut Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 9 hours ago, RichardL said: Regarding Ammo 36375 color accuracy, I would beg to differ. Neither Ammo nor Vallejo is close. Ammo is too cyan and Vallejo is too green: Both lack the slight purple tint that exists in the actual FS 36375. To get better color match from true water based acrylic paints, one needs to back at least three decades: Model Master Acryl on the left. Pactra Acrylic on the right. Richard, I am just curious. Did you buy those color chips or is it something I can print myself from a reputable website? And if so, what website would you recommend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, JesusNut said: Richard, I am just curious. Did you buy those color chips or is it something I can print myself from a reputable website? And if so, what website would you recommend? You never want to print the color chips out from a website since 1) they are no where close to being accurate 2) your color printer won't be able to accurately render all color components. Even federal color fan decks are not approved for color verification. Please order authentic individual federal color chips from these two sources: Federal Standards 595C Color Chips AMS-STD-595A Color Chips (supersede FED-STD-595C above) Edited January 13, 2021 by RichardL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.