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ESzczesniak

Spraying AMMO by Mig Paints?

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Would anyone have some personal tips to share?  I moved from Tamiya/Model Master to Vallejo a couple years ago.  Vallejo has worked well for me, but the color accuracy is terrible and sometimes instead of mixing pain, you just want to spray dark ghost gray or whatever.  So I've kept Model Master around for this.  I was interested in trying the AMMO paints since they seem to do better for color accuracy and got my first bottles a few days ago.

 

I have not messed with them a lot yet, but was unimpressed on my first go.  It was not the worst/roughest surface, but nothing like the silky smooth surface I can get out of a Tamiya or Model Master Acryl flat paint.  I sprayed as recommended straight from the bottle at about 18 PSI through a H&S Infinity 0.4 mm nozzle in about 3 coats total to get full coverage.  It wasn't a full orange peel surface, but not all that smooth.  And I got a fair bit of tip dry.  Lowering the PSI actually made the problem worse and raising it did not help much.

 

It seems they in fact do need thinning (they look thick out of the bottle) and maybe some retarder.  A Google search turned up some other people with similar experience, but most of them seemed to just stop using the paints rather than sharing solutions

 

So I was wondering if anyone had some of their personal tricks?  What thinner's work well, PSI, etc?

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I think they are very similar to Vallejo and may even be bottled for Ammo by Vallejo. If you don't have Ammo specific thinners etc. I'd just try Vallejo products as a test. Just don't test on something you are working on, use an old kit as a paint test bed...I try new paints all the time and experimentation is KEY to any new product that you try.

 

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I have no problems spraying them and they work fine for me.  I only use their brand thinner.  My only recommendation is to use a primer first.

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I've used them exclusively for a couple years now...about 8 builds, and I think they are great.  Make sure you really mix them well.,.rattle the mixing balls in the bottles for a couple minutes. Spray slowly and build up the coats gradually, they aren't made to cover in one coat.  I usually break the model up into sections..lightly do the sections of a wing, then do the other wing, turn it over and do the other sides. Sometimes I'll just focus on one panel at a time. Breaking it up into sections gives just enough time for each one to dry as you put a coat on the other.  A few rotations of the model as you go and step by step the coat will start to cover nicely.  It takes practice to dial in but I find a higher pressure(around 20)  works well.  If it's dusty move the brush closer.  As for thinning I use the Ammo acrylic thinner and I've used the Tamiya acrylic thinner...white cap I believe, but for general coverage I don't thin them at all.  I also use the Ammo one shot primer and it's also worked fantastic.  They are a little different and take getting used to but the ease of use, easy clean up and absolutely zero fumes is worth it .  At this point I'm getting fantastic results and honestly can't see myself switching to anything else.  I've done commission builds for pilots and they absolutely loved em... so, with some practice the paints can get you a really nice result.  Hope this helps

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Posted (edited)

It happens that I'm experimenting with Ammo paints for the first time this week.  (I threw together an old ESCI BMP-2 to test 'em.)  I use an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS (gravity feed) with the .5mm needle/tip.

 

One Shot primer went on beautifully, and was a breeze to airbrush.  I use a mac valve to fine-tune at low pressures, so I was probably around 15 PSI.  It should appear wet on the model, and if you live in a humid climate (I do) it make take more than a minute to flash over, but it doesn't run easily and shrinks down nicely.  It dries to the touch in a few minutes, but even after two days was not particularly hard, and I was able to scratch it off with light fingernail pressure.  

 

The paint went on well, but it seems tricky.  It requires no thinning, but I found it dried in my airbrush tip, a problem I haven't experienced with paint (Vallejo, Acryl/Model Master, Mission Models) in a while.  Early I saw odd fish-eyes, but they disappeared after another pass or two.  Coverage was excellent, but as Napalmakita suggests, it really requires multiple passes.  I could spray it in tight lines, and in single passes it's fantastic for blending and shading, but it didn't atomize quite as nicely as I'd like.  It was very tolerant if I sprayed on too much.  A pool of paint blended perfectly with surrounding paint, rather than leave a visible tide mark, but if I had done that on a vertical surface I may have suffered a run.

 

I'll give it a few days to cure, and then will try a masking tape test.  I won't use paints that do not endure Tamiya tape, so that's a major test for me.  

 

My next airbrush test will be around 20 PSI, although with other acrylics I tend to have trouble where the paint dries before adhering, when shot at higher pressure.  Still, I hope this will improve atomization and stop the tip-drying issue.  I'll need to put together another test subject to do that, though.  

 

I was even able to brush paint the mantlet cover with an Ammo color, although I let it dry on a palette for awhile before attempting it, and other colors probably require multiple coats.  

 

IMG_20190703_200702-e1562199546789.jpg

Edited by Fishwelding

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Sounds about right Fishwelding...tip drying is an issue but I just keep a damp paper towel near by and give the needle a gentle wipe every few passes.  The paint is made to go on in light coats but is very forgiving in my experience.  I find moving the gun a little closer to the model has improved the finish a bit.  I use tamiya tape exclusively and as long as I let the paint fully cure there has never been an issue.  It took some  trial and error but at this point I'm on auto pilot with this stuff and really like the ease of use/clean up and final result.  The clear coats I'm 50/50 on.  I do a lot of post decal weathering and can put a beating on final clear coats.  I've used the Ammo gloss, flat and satin but lately have stuck with future and model master dull coat.  

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What I wouldn't mind knowing is what the behavioral difference is between One Shot primer, and Ammo's other primer line.  Is the other primer somehow different than One Shot, so that Ammo sells both simultaneously?  I bought a bottle of that primer - in Russian Armor green, no less - but elected to try the One Shot stuff first, since I'd heard good things about it.  

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Fishwelding said:

What I wouldn't mind knowing is what the behavioral difference is between One Shot primer, and Ammo's other primer line.  Is the other primer somehow different than One Shot, so that Ammo sells both simultaneously?  I bought a bottle of that primer - in Russian Armor green, no less - but elected to try the One Shot stuff first, since I'd heard good things about it.  

I couldn't tell you anything about the science, that's way out of my pay grade.  What I can say is that I used the original primer (black and rust) and it had a thicker, dusty finish and took more passes to get an even coat.  The one shot goes on more evenly and leaves a silky finish with just enough bite.  Not sure what the difference in Formula is but the one shot is noticeably better

Edited by Napalmakita

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10 hours ago, Napalmakita said:

I couldn't tell you anything about the science, that's way out of my pay grade.  What I can say is that I used the original primer (black and rust) and it had a thicker, dusty finish and took more passes to get an even coat.  The one shot goes on more evenly and leaves a silky finish with just enough bite.  Not sure what the difference in Formula is but the one shot is noticeably better

 

FYI, One Shot primers are just repackaged Badger's Stynelrez.

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I've slowly made the switch to Ammo, Hataka (lacquer) and AK Real colors. Along with Tamiya, these are my four "go to" paints now. Of the three (Ammo/Hat/AK), I have found Ammo the easiest to use. Using the Grex XGi, it's been as easy as dropping the paint in the color cup and spraying. I have yet to use thinner or primer and have had excellent results. The combination of Ammo and the Grex has increased my model building output by leaps and bounds.

 

The color accuracy is pretty damn good as well (Vallejo is the worst in this department). 

 

My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab.

 

DSCN0123.jpg

 

DSCN0128.jpg

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Posted (edited)

In my first tape tests, both the paint itself, and clearcoat resist tearing or peeling with full-strength Tamiya tape.  This is over One Shot primer.  

 

The gloss varnish seems eager to run, but then dried with a slight pebble texture.  It wanted to gloss up fairly quickly, without having to build it up.  For decaling and wash purposes it's adequate, and I suspect that if I really tried different spraying methods I might get it smoother.  (I probably won't; if I'm painting a car model I'd use different products anyway.)  Where it did run, it shrank as it set up, and will probably be invisible without sanding it down, after I apply more (matte, this time) varnish.

 

This BMP will endure strong decals sets, some washing with white spirits, and probably some other chemicals before finishing, so testing continues.  

IMG_20190707_073735-e1562500774297.jpg

 

Rarely do I have a perfect experience with a new paint.  But I like what I see, and will continue experimenting with Ammo.  Maybe I'll mess around with their older primer, too, just to see if I can get good results with different pressure and mixture regimes. 

 

To the original poster, some suggestions:

  • If you haven't one, consider purchasing a mac valve for your airbrush.  I suspect many modelers are like me, and probably use a pressure gauge that's really meant for larger air tools.  Down below 25 PSI it's probably a bit vague.  That mac valve can give you precise control over your air pressure, and you quickly acquire a feel for how to use it.  It's improved my airbrushing a lot, particularly with water- or alcohol-based paints ("acrylics.")  
  • Take the needle guard off the front of the brush.  I think with quick-drying paints, particularly, it can introduce dried paint into the air stream that can accelerate needle tip-drying and can interfere with atomization.  
  • The Ammo colors I used did not require thinning.  But if you want to try it, I suggest starting with Ammo's own thinner.  In the last few years I've been methodically tested a variety of paints.  In each case, I buy at least one bottle of the manufacturer's thinner.  If things go badly, it isn't because I tried some non-recommended thinner.  If the paint works well, I'll then introduce different thinners (ISO, distilled water) to compare with OEM.
  • Check YouTube for tutorials.  It seems most of the "Millennial" manufacturers have created tutorials there to show you how to use their products.  Your mileage may vary; if it's a dry season in Spain, that's nothing like mid-Atlantic U.S. where our humidity will influence paint.  But still, start with what they say and experiment from there.

 

Edited by Fishwelding

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On 7/5/2019 at 8:47 AM, Dave Roof said:

My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab.

 

That's impressive work! It looks like you had pretty good control for shading with that stuff, which I find is a challenge with acrylics.  Based on your comment I have some Hataka Orange Line MERDC colors coming in the mail.  The only lacquers I've used (besides Alclad, I suppose) is Gunze.  I'll be interested to compare the two lines.

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On 7/5/2019 at 8:47 AM, Dave Roof said:

I've slowly made the switch to Ammo, Hataka (lacquer) and AK Real colors. Along with Tamiya, these are my four "go to" paints now. Of the three (Ammo/Hat/AK), I have found Ammo the easiest to use. Using the Grex XGi, it's been as easy as dropping the paint in the color cup and spraying. I have yet to use thinner or primer and have had excellent results. The combination of Ammo and the Grex has increased my model building output by leaps and bounds.

 

The color accuracy is pretty damn good as well (Vallejo is the worst in this department). 

 

My most recent build was painted with Ammo 36375 and 35237, along with their Ultra Matte as a final coat (this stuff is awesome)!. The interior is Tamiya NATO Black and the gloss coat was Tamiya X-22. Top of main rotor was painted with AK Real Colors RC024 Faded Olive Drab.

 

DSCN0123.jpg

 

DSCN0128.jpg

100% !  drop in the cup and go to town.  Set up time and the fact that I can spray multiple colors in one sitting by simply blowing tap water through my brush between each color means I can knock out steps that used to take days in only a few hours.  I've been spraying for a week on my latest project and haven't taken apart my airbrush once.  No fumes, great range of accurate colors and a ton of weathering products designed to work with each other simplifies the process too.    I'm a big fan.  Sweet Huey btw Dave

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Just my two cents - I've been using Ammo thinned 50/50 with Mr Leveling Thinner and it's been behaving quite well for me, spraying between 15 and 25 psi depending on the application.

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Amo Jimenez and mig* paint have the thinning solution,  buy for that brand and thin paint enough to pulverized in a uniform manner some times have to be coated various times and seal after dried this are not mom acrilic paint for handcrafts that can be use with a brush dry technique . 50/50 some paints are for airbrush and come with a dropper even those can be thinned to have better flowing .

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