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ya-gabor

MiG-21 bis Eduard in 48th scale

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Hi falcon91352

 

Thanks for the photos. Yes, that 1992 airshow was something special. I was there several days in advance so was able to look at № 1904 when it came out from the paint shop. Zero flight time on the new scheme, no Camel and beautifully clean.

 

The Camel question was interesting with a "little" corruption (actually a lot of money) from the tobacco company and some serious consequences to it. No surprise that the Camel was almost immediately removed. That airshow weekend has seen so many changes to the aircrafts paint scheme. For the first flight the Turul squadron patch (a primitive sticker (Decal 33 in this kit)) was added only on the left side of the fin. But it was very short lived as by the end of the flight it peeled off almost completely. But there were more sticker :))) available so it was applied again just behind 1904 number under the cockpit (as on photo of falcon91352). It shows that in just a very short time span (1-2 days) how much can markings change on a given aircraft.

 

General comment to those building this kit.

For the 1992 show ONLY four wing pylons were painted black, all of them weapons pylons together with APU-13 launch rails (Kit Parts E3 & E8). So if anyone wants to hang fuel tanks representing this August 1992 time then the outer pylon (the fuel pylon (Part A7 & A15) is different from the weapons pylon!) should be painted the standard underside blue and the tanks themselves either metal or light blue colour. This is why I asked the fuel tank to be removed by Eduard from the instruction sheet drawing on page 16.

 

Please don’t confuse the “Camel” aircraft from 1992 with the yellow №1904 in 1993 when visiting the Fairford show! It was repainted and most markings changes (newly painted and repositioned), new squadron / unit markings added and all stencils deleted as well as newly painted “fuel pylons” with shark fins as well as the “decorated” yellow fuel tanks with its own shark mouth.

 

Have to repeat that this kit represents the 1992 scheme! Other decals in most cases were a mix of different versions, bits taken from one or other era of its service. For example this Eduard decal is the very first time that the flames in front of the gun are authentically reproduced, for the decal design I used copies of the actual painting mask of the flames, just as for eyes, gills, Capeti, Danger markings . . .    

 

One other thing is that in 1994 a new IFF system was added, with new antennas and a prominent bulge on the nose! So that is another story once again! This is the way you see it today in museum (minus the antennas which were recycled by the Air Force to other still operational aircraft).

 

I have offered to have the short history of this Capeti №1904 aircraft written for Eduard but at the moment they are only interested in Mustang and nothing else. :)) or :((

 

 

At the time in 1992 I used Kodachrome 64 but due to cost restrains also a lot of commercial Fuji slide film as well.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Hey all, since I just ordered this ‘new’ Eduard kit, can someone explain the ‘nose issue’.  I understand there is a resin update/fix, but before I order one of those, I’d like to know how significant the problem is, and whether the problem applies to all the ‘bis’ version aircraft, or is the issue limited to just some of the planes.  Thanks for any help.  

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2019 at 4:53 AM, Sleepy said:

Please do not apply the roundels to the wings of the Cuban bird.  None of their MiG-21bis have ever carried wing roundels.  Not that impressed with Eduard’s decal research or artwork.

So, do you mean that there are NO markings on the wings of the Cuban plane, or just no roundels and that there are different markings on the wings?  I really like the pattern/colors of the Cuban plane, but want to make it correct.  Thanks for your help!

Edited by Curt B

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56 minutes ago, Curt B said:

. . . can someone explain the ‘nose issue’. . .   

 

All MiG-21 bis produced as Type 75 (MiG design office designation of the particular version) had a new fuselage/wing in comparison to all previous versions of the MiG-21 like the export MF or the Rassky SM, SMT versions. In the past decade the fuselage differences were simplified for easier understanding by modellers and Eduard to the different nose cross section solely, while there is far more to this.

There was somewhere a thread here on ARC, about 8-9 years ago where all the differences were discussed in detail and comparison photos shown. I have no idea where it is.

 

In few words. The nose on the 21bis has a constant fuselage diameter and starts to round down (to a smaller diameter) to the intake lip only some 30cm from front resulting in a "sharp" sudden change. On the Eduard kit it is a constant curvature rounding down to intake lip from way back.

 

At the weekend I was at an airshow with some Belgian F-16’s and next to them a Polish F-16. The pilots/technicians only knew that they fly different block aircraft but in most cases had absolutely no idea what the differences are. It is / it was the same with Eduard MiG-21 bis nose/fuselage question, most modellers wouldn’t give a toss about it. For them it is a Fishbed and that’s all they want to know.

 

It is interesting to read that when a panel is off by a minimal amount on a Western aircraft types kit / or a shape is too flat or too bulgy most modellers declare it unbuildable.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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MiG-21SMT to the left; MiG-21bis to the right. Both are Eduard kits. The bis has the Cold War Studio nose correction.

 

mig21sm_51.jpg

 

Jon

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20 hours ago, Sleepy said:

 

So the onus is on the buyer and not the manufacturer?  So what if someone printed US insignias in purple and pink instead of red and blue?  Or produced a MiG-21 kit in the shape of a 737?  Is the onus on the modeler to make it right?  


How about if you bought a Lexus and you got a Yugo instead?  Is the onus on you to turn it into a Lexus?  


Maybe I just more fondly remember when this hobby wasn't filled with whining, entitled children 

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1 hour ago, jonbryon said:

MiG-21SMT to the left; MiG-21bis to the right. Both are Eduard kits. The bis has the Cold War Studio nose correction.

 

mig21sm_51.jpg

 

Jon

Wow, you really see the difference there!  Beautiful models 👍🏻

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19 hours ago, jonbryon said:

 

mig21sm_51.jpg

 

 

It has been stated so many times over years by Mr. Sulc of Eduard that the nose difference is so minimal (measured in microns) that there is simply no point in making changes for a true MiG-21bis nose.  :rolleyes: 

 

Obviously depending on the subject no expenses are spared to make different parts with minimal differences (measured in microns). :coolio:    :whistle: :coolio:

   

 

48mCQ0Q.jpg

 

QuqAJ0j.jpg

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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All in the eye of the beholder when it comes down to it. That should be the only and final word.

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On 7/27/2019 at 2:41 AM, DarkKnight said:

I hope they'll bring some to the NAts

 

 

So did you manage to get one copy of this new MiG-21 bis kit at the nationals?

What do you think?

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Posted (edited)

I got one  very nice with the photoetch, I hope to build a Croatian bis and a Yugoslav/Serbia version, resin wheels, antenna  and great markings,  very nice.  I haven't decided to go with the special Croatian anniversary  markings or with camo 

They sold out of Mustangs on Thursday, on Friday they only had a few Mig-21 left, it was a great show.

I have one nose coming to me from Cold War Studios, I already had one with my other kit.  I have the G-factor brass gear and the Master Model air sensor, so I have alll my upgrades now I have to find the time to build something 

Edited by DarkKnight

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23 minutes ago, DarkKnight said:

I got one  very nice with the photoetch, I hope to build a Croatian bis and a Yugoslav/Serbia version, resin wheels, antenna  and great markings,  very nice.  I haven't decided to go with the special Croatian anniversary  markings or with camo 

They sold out of Mustangs on Thursday, on Friday they only had a few Mig-21 left, it was a great show.

I have one nose coming to me from Cold War Studios, I already had one with my other kit.  I have the G-factor brass gear and the Master Model air sensor, so I have alll my upgrades now I have to find the time to build something 

I feel your pain!😟

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38 minutes ago, DarkKnight said:

. . .  on Friday they only had a few Mig-21 left, it was a great show.

 

 

Lucky you!  Have fun with it! :)

It seems that I will be the only one to do the Hungarian version. Thing is I have to do it, have to test what I have cooked for others. :)  :)  :) So no excuse for not doing it. 

 

I will have few tips and errata here for the builders soon. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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2 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Lucky you!  Have fun with it! 🙂

It seems that I will be the only one to do the Hungarian version. Thing is I have to do it, have to test what I have cooked for others. 🙂 🙂 🙂 So no excuse for not doing it. 

 

I will have few tips and errata here for the builders soon. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

 

This is good news, because details about the MiG-21bis are not that well published. The -MF is much better unfold, the excellent WWP books spontaneously coming in my mind.

 

If I would be aware in the 80s and 90s, that I will become a serious modeller some years later, I should have done a lot of close up pictures then, but I didn't.

I only made general shots of military planes and traded the slides with a couple of collagues in Germany and abroad.

 

Shown on the pictures below are the two camouflaged MiG-21bis, which accompanied the yellow 1904 during the display at the Taszar Air Show 1992. On both planes, the Turul sticker was applied on the right fuselage side.

 

Modellers, who prefer the look of a camouflaged Hungarian AF MiG-21bis can build the 1904 from the kit as well representing the plane before it was repainted in its yellow livery. However, white stencils are needed. Other planes are possible as well, but you need a sheet of tactical numbers by HAD. 

 

 

1953 1

 

 

 

1953

 

 

 

2105

 

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On 8/5/2019 at 5:08 AM, Curt B said:

So, do you mean that there are NO markings on the wings of the Cuban plane, or just no roundels and that there are different markings on the wings?  I really like the pattern/colors of the Cuban plane, but want to make it correct.  Thanks for your help!

 Hi all,

 

A few things, focused on the Cuban airplane.  I didn't yet get an answer to my question, above, about the roundels on the wings.  Does anyone know?  And, a new question.  Does anyone have any photos of the actual Cuban plane?  There are a lot of images of the Cuban airplane, but they are all computer generated, from one or more computer games.  I'm looking for a real life photo (or, ideally, multiple photos) of such a plane.  Thanks in advance for any responses to my questions.

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I did see in person one Cuban MiG-21 at the Air Force Museum in Havana back in 2001. Took few photos but certainly not top and bottom and have no idea how authentic the colours were as by the look of it most aircraft at the museum were repainted numerous times. A tropical afternoon rainstorm did not help with our visit so we had to leave early but was certainly an interesting visit!

 

Don’t look for the museum now, it was closed as it was in a posh district of the city and the ground was needed for developers. All the aircraft moved to a military base well outside and as such are completely out of reach for ordinary people now. This is the story I know.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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6 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

I did see in person one Cuban MiG-21 at the Air Force Museum in Havana back in 2001. Took few photos but certainly not top and bottom and have no idea how authentic the colours were as by the look of it most aircraft at the museum were repainted numerous times. A tropical afternoon rainstorm did not help with our visit so we had to leave early but was certainly an interesting visit!

 

Don’t look for the museum now, it was closed as it was in a posh district of the city and the ground was needed for developers. All the aircraft moved to a military base well outside and as such are completely out of reach for ordinary people now. This is the story I know.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Thank you, sir.  I'm thinking that I might still go with the Cuban livery, just much less 'contrast' and depth of color on the model as compared to what is shown in the instructions/decal sheet.  It wouldn't be that 'toylike' in real life anyway, right?  

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This is a small pic, but it appears to show a Mig-21bis and Mig-21UM in the blue and green scheme. These appear to be in service aircraft, but can't say for sure. If so, it confirms the contrast of the colors used. Can't see the top of the wing, unfortunately.

 

MiG21air.jpg

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7 hours ago, Curt B said:

. . . just much less 'contrast' and depth of color on the model as compared to what is shown in the instructions/decal sheet.  It wouldn't be that 'toylike' in real life anyway, right?  

 

The question is not about the colours, they are very contrasting and very strange (for me anyway) in real life!!!   But I think that that Hungarian yellow scheme is strange for others too (it was for me when I first seen it). The ones on that photo are operational aircraft and exactly the same colours (same paint) was used on the museum aircraft too.

The question is about markings. There are some photos on the net, frankly I never considered doing a Cuban aircraft so never really looked at it.

 

But why not ask Eduard directly after all they made the decal so should have some source for it. For example on the Czech forum on modelforum dot cz there is a topic where you can ask directly from Mr. Sulc. There is no guaranty that he will answer but . . . 

Also on that Company fake book forum where Jan is the one reading comments and reacting in most cases. So you never know.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

 

The question is not about the colours, they are very contrasting and very strange (for me anyway) in real life!!!   But I think that that Hungarian yellow scheme is strange for others too (it was for me when I first seen it). The ones on that photo are operational aircraft and exactly the same colours (same paint) was used on the museum aircraft too.

The question is about markings. There are some photos on the net, frankly I never considered doing a Cuban aircraft so never really looked at it.

 

But why not ask Eduard directly after all they made the decal so should have some source for it. For example on the Czech forum on modelforum dot cz there is a topic where you can ask directly from Mr. Sulc. There is no guaranty that he will answer but . . . 

Also on that Company fake book forum where Jan is the one reading comments and reacting in most cases. So you never know.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Great idea, Gabor.  Thank you...I’ll give it a try.

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In September 1993 black 672 Cuban MiG-21bis defected to US Key West and was extensively photographed. It did not have roundels of any sort with only the tail marking (as far as reports from eyewitnesses suggest). It is interesting that the airframe had Russian stencils on top of that “strange” scheme. Was it actually delivered like thatby Russians?

Then again it seems that other aircraft had roundels not only on fuselage but also on alternate wing surfaces. It seems that markings of Cuban aircraft is a complicated subject. But internet has dozens / hundreds of photos so anyone interested in the Cuban scheme should spend a little time with search.

 

On 26 February this year one MiG-21bis went down some 50km from Havana and the locals were quick on the scene. Nice green / brown colour of the canopy there. The small para opening parachute was collected and put there (it is not part of the canopy). Pilot survived ejection, plane burned and destroyed so locals did not have time to look at it (take photos). The ejection seat was also found but unfortunately the single photo is taken from a wrong direction so the a/c factory number not visible in the seat pan.

 

g4MSzcN.jpg

 

 

Have look here also although I don’t know if this Brexit site is still available or has closed down completely.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235036053-cuban-mig-21mfs/

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Gabor, many thanks!  The britmodeler link still works, and I FINALLY got to see a Cuban airplane in real life!  It's kind of what I anticipated, but the colors re even, perhaps, more saturated on the real plane than what I would have thought.  Glad to have seen this!!!

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On 8/5/2019 at 10:58 PM, Falconxlvi said:

Wow, you really see the difference there!  Beautiful models 👍🏻

 

Can you please point out the areas which differ? I remember reading about it, but can't really spot any obvious differences here besides the slightly wider intake opening on the bis.

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4 hours ago, ijozic said:

 

Can you please point out the areas which differ? I remember reading about it, but can't really spot any obvious differences here besides the slightly wider intake opening on the bis.

Look at the larger diameter, more muscular look for the intake on the right compared to the left in the photo.  That’s all I was getting at.  

 

Steve.  

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