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Hi all,

 

I'm planning on getting the HPH Stratofortress. Does anyone have any experience with their bigger kits; level of detail, accuracy, fit, stability (of resin and fiberglass over time), strength etc.

 

Also any reviews or build of their models would also be much appreciated - there doesn''t seem to be much around on the internet which is a interesting sign.

 

Thanks all, 

 

Marc.

 

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I'm planning a '60's SAC bird with ALCM-A's or Hound dog missiles, in bare metal.

 

Most footage seems to show G and H models without the low light and IR camara pods on the underside of the nose. Were these introduced later?

 

I'm going to try to persuade HPH to offer the SAC version as an option in addition to (the to my mind) later all over gray color they sported later in life, which is the only optio at this time.

 

Once again, any help would be great.

 

Thanks,

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19 hours ago, serendip said:

I'm planning a '60's SAC bird with ALCM-A's or Hound dog missiles, in bare metal.

 

Most footage seems to show G and H models without the low light and IR camara pods on the underside of the nose. Were these introduced later?

 

I'm going to try to persuade HPH to offer the SAC version as an option in addition to (the to my mind) later all over gray color they sported later in life, which is the only optio at this time.

 

Once again, any help would be great.

 

Thanks,

Well, building a '60's era Buff, you would be hard pressed to mount ALCM A's on it. The ALCM (AGM-86) didn't begin development until '74. Also, the A model was only a proof of concept vehicle and never entered production. Even the SRAM missile (AGM-69) didn't enter service until '72. So your only options for a '60's bird would be Hound Dogs and Quail missiles (ADM-20). But, Quail's were only loaded in the bomb bay to my knowledge and although the BUFF could accommodate 8, a normal load was 2. I do not know if Hound Dogs and Quails were ever carried together on the same airframe at the same time. The EVS system was installed beginning in '71 and I believe the last airframe was modified in '76. So again not appropriate for a 60's era BUFF.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, madmanrick said:

Also, the A model was only a proof of concept vehicle and never entered production.

Is this regarding the missile or the aircraft?  I will GUESS missile since the B-52A was introduced in the 1950s..

Edited by Slartibartfast

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That's correct - the missile. Two Air Launched Cruise Missiles under each wing - ACLM-As. If Wikipedia is correct carried by the SAC 30th bombardment wing.

 

HPH is only offering to do the Memphis Belle III B52-H at this time which to my mind is a mind numbingly boring scheme so I'm looking for references to feed them enough information for a bare metal SAC bird.

 

So all help would be appreciated. The Jimmy Stewart movie helps and also 'How I stopped worrying and learned how to love the bomb' with Peter Sellers and George C. Scott has some great footage.

 

Thanks all,

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1 hour ago, serendip said:

also 'How I stopped worrying and learned how to love the bomb' with Peter Sellers and George C. Scott has some great footage.

 

AKA Dr. Strangelove. Who can forget Major T. J. Kong riding the A-Bomb down to its target, YEEEE HAAAA!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, serendip said:

That's correct - the missile. Two Air Launched Cruise Missiles under each wing - ACLM-As. If Wikipedia is correct carried by the SAC 30th bombardment wing.

 

HPH is only offering to do the Memphis Belle III B52-H at this time which to my mind is a mind numbingly boring scheme so I'm looking for references to feed them enough information for a bare metal SAC bird.

 

So all help would be appreciated. The Jimmy Stewart movie helps and also 'How I stopped worrying and learned how to love the bomb' with Peter Sellers and George C. Scott has some great footage.

 

Thanks all,

Well, it's your model, but NO 60s era B-52 could carry ALCMs, A model or otherwise, as they didn't exist until the mid-70s. Also, the ALCM A never went into production, nor was it carried by any Squadron. It was a prototype and AFAIK there were only a few ever made (and NONE before 1974). The first model of the ALCM  that was deployed was the ALCM B and they didn't begin series production until 1980, finally becoming operational in 1982.

Edited by madmanrick

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Thanks MMRick and all for the valuable information.

 

I do certainly want to make a non-fictional loadout: I do want to make the anti-flash silver on top, white on the bottom color scheme for sure however

 

So what did B-52Hs in that scheme carry beneath the wings operationally?

 

Thanks all again for the help.

 

Marc.

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Posted (edited)

Marc,

 

During the early to middle-late 1960s, SAC B-52B-Fs were in aluminum lacquer paint with undersides and cockpit tops in anti-flash white OR undersides in gloss black and cockpit top in aluminum lacquer for Vietnam duty.  B-52B/Cs were retired in the mid 1960s.  All B-52G/Hs were in natural metal with anti-flash white cockpit tops and undersides. The exception was the B-52D that went through the "Big Belly" mod and carried the new SAC Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) scheme on top and gloss black undersides and vertical tail, (ala Vietnam).  After ~1967-68, B-52G/hs also began to adopt the SIOP scheme with flat white undersides so that by 1970 or 1971, all G/Hs had been repainted.  Even some Fs received the SIOP paint treatment until retired by the mid 1970s. The D soldered on until 1982-83. 

 

Rick is correct.  For a 1960's B-52H, you will need to remove much of the extra antennae (nose EVS and RWR bumps, tail bumps, under fuselage blade style antennae), and paint in various shades of natural metal and some aluminum lacquer, with white undersides.  For some reason, some aircraft wing undersides received white over the entire surface, and some only received white over the forward part of the wing underside surface.  Not sure why.  Also, the only external armament would be a single AGM-28 Hound Dog missile under each wing.  If you plan to open the bomb bay, then you could mount four AQM-20 Quail in their mounting racks and either one large or four smaller nuclear bombs.  The AGM-28s were primarilly designed to target Soviet radar sites, blasting holes for the B-52s to get through.  The AQM-20 Quail would be launched as decoys for radar / fighters.  When the B-52G/H finally reached the target area, they would use their freefall nuclear bombs on the actual targets.   

 

Yes, Dr. Strangelove is useful, but only for the opening mid-air refueling scenes which used a B-52F & G footage.  ALL other scenes used B-52H models & studio sets of various degrees of accuracy.  There are several resources available, some focusing strictly on the B-52G/H.  The Aerofax Datagraph comes to mind that will show early paint schemes and give copiuos weapons load details.

 

Here is a link to my 1/144 scale B-52H "Leper Colony" build from Dr. Strangelove

 

HTH,

Dutch

Edited by Dutch

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40 minutes ago, serendip said:

Thanks MMRick and all for the valuable information.

 

I do certainly want to make a non-fictional loadout: I do want to make the anti-flash silver on top, white on the bottom color scheme for sure however

 

So what did B-52Hs in that scheme carry beneath the wings operationally?

 

Thanks all again for the help.

 

Marc.

The anti-flash scheme would limit you to Hound Dog missiles only. It is possible that they may have carried Quail missiles, but those would have been internally, in the bomb bay.

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Oh and Dutch is correct, the Quail was used to help defeat Soviet radar systems. But, it was a radar reflecting decoy and carried NO explosives whatsoever. In fact, by the early '70's the Quail was essentially considered less than useless, as it took up valuable space in the bomb bay AND expended fuel to carry a decoy, that was useless. The SRAM was designed as an offensive weapon that could be used to defeat point defense targets for ingress to Soviet targets, such as SAM sites (most of which were fixed in the '70s and early 80's). The BUFF and later bombers, using the corridors blasted with SRAMs, would then use gravity weapons on their main targets, such as command and control sites or airfields, etc.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, madmanrick said:

Oh and Dutch is correct, the Quail was used to help defeat Soviet radar systems. But, it was a radar reflecting decoy and carried NO explosives whatsoever. In fact, by the early '70's the Quail was essentially considered less than useless, as it took up valuable space in the bomb bay AND expended fuel to carry a decoy, that was useless. The SRAM was designed as an offensive weapon that could be used to defeat point defense targets for ingress to Soviet targets, such as SAM sites (most of which were fixed in the '70s and early 80's). The BUFF and later bombers, using the corridors blasted with SRAMs, would then use gravity weapons on their main targets, such as command and control sites or airfields, etc.

Rick,

Does seem counter intuitive to use a early guided missile to only blast a path to the target, but still overfly the target to deliver essentially a freefall bomb, albeit a nuclear one.   But I guess the accuracy of the early guidance systems was not accurate enough for point targets (like command centers, missile silos, etc...) but good enough for area targets (like SAM sites, radar sites, air bases, etc...).  Keep in mind that the AGM-28 carried a W28 4 megaton warhead!  AGM-69 SRAMs did essentially the same role, but its accuracy was improved enough to attack small point targets aslo.  The guidance accuracy and airframe / powerplant technology had improved so much by the 1980s, that ALCMs could be launched at point targets from well outside SAM and air defenses and fly low enough to evade enemy air defenses, obviating the need to overfly targets any more with the launch aircraft. 

R/ Dutch 

Edited by Dutch

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Dutch, AGM-28's were never loaded by the time I came onboard SAC. They may have still had them in the bunkers, but I never saw them. I believe I read somewhere that the yield on the W28 was lower than 4mt, but I can't state with any positivity. I agree with your post in regards to the Hound Dog, but this was still what the doctrine was in 80-82, when I was working with BUFF H's & SRAMs. The SRAMs (with a 17kt -210kt yield) would simply be used to clear "enemy" SAM/radar sites, etc. and the gravity weapons used to take out actual targets. The biggest problem is that those same BUFFs were expected to recover at bases outside the target area to reconstitute and restrike targets that were not taken out the first time. Luckily, it was all a moot point and the flag never went up. I agree with your point concerning ALCM's, that was a clear advantage over the way it was planned in the early 80's. However, we didn't get ALCMs until the B-1B came along, even though they were eventually retrofitted to BUFFs, that was after I got out, I believe in the mid to late 80s. Only G & H models got the ALCMs and I believe all the Ds had been retired by that time.

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