Navy F-4 experts- corrosion control/touch ups

[Keroburner89]

Howdy folks,

 

I'm in the spray booth process of this VF-213 F-4G below. I've noticed some substantial touch ups on the top fuselage as well as what I think is probably corrosion control on the leading edges.

 

My question is what colours am I looking for here? Bit hard with it being black and white, but perhaps someone knows of some colour photos showing similar?  Is the touch up on the top just fresh 16440? And the corrosion control, primer green or something darker? I recall seeing a dark green but not 100% sure of something similar being used. 

 

Cheers all, happy building!

 

 

[Sleepy]

The VC-12 maintenance officer (who was also an IPMS member) at Oceana once told me they had one of their airplanes out for the Oceana open house.  He noticed a little group of guys clustered around it, holding their 595 fan deck up to the touchup paint.  He said he stood there and watched them argue for several minutes before he went over and told them the touchups were Craftsman automotive primer purchased at Sears.

 

Don't sweat the exact color.

[sierrascale]

26 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

The VC-12 maintenance officer (who was also an IPMS member) at Oceana once told me they had one of their airplanes out for the Oceana open house.  He noticed a little group of guys clustered around it, holding their 595 fan deck up to the touchup paint.  He said he stood there and watched them argue for several minutes before he went over and told them the touchups were Craftsman automotive primer purchased at Sears.

 

Don't sweat the exact color.

Modelers are sheep. Or perhaps Keepers of the Holy Color Dogma. Crazy.

 

[sierrascale]

I remember when I was a loggie at Beale, I just picked up a couple spray cans of yellow at the Ace Hardware to repaint our forklift.

[picknpluck]

8 minutes ago, sierrascale said:

Modelers are sheep. Or perhaps Keepers of the Holy Color Dogma. Crazy.

 

Or just passionate about attention to detail 

[Sleepy]

The better question here is, what the hell is that thing hanging under the left wing?

[GW8345]

1 hour ago, Sleepy said:

The better question here is, what the hell is that thing hanging under the left wing?

Mk 77 Mod 1 Firebomb

[Grand Toad]

I ran into a guy at our local hobby shop back in the 1980s who loved to argue about paint colors on folks models. He went after me that my F-4J didn't have the right Gull Grey FS 16440.

 

Finally one of the other guys at the shop said, "Hey Jim, aren't you color blind?"

Jim, "yes." 

Other guy, "Then shut up."

[BaconRaygun]

6 hours ago, picknpluck said:

Or just passionate about attention to detail 

 

Yeh, but its also worth to mention that the vast majority of people seem to build models from reference photos... and color matching is at the mercy of the photographer who captured and processed the image.    For images taken before the digital camera era,  you've also got to worry about degradation of photographs and negatives used to re-develop the photographs, or even the film used to take said photographs. 

 

That's all before you even mention lighting, or optical illusions that are manifested by our own brains. 

 

So, taking all of that into consideration, how truly accurate can we possibly be when it comes to hue and saturation?   I think this is highly subjective.   

 

I personally don't worry that much about perfectly matching colors.    I do my best, but I dont lose any sleep over having a light gray that's a few shades lighter, or a blue that looks a bit washed out compared to a photograph.    If I worried that much about these things, then the hobby would become stressful, and my enjoyment level would go down.  But, that's like, just my opinion, man.  

Edited August 8, 2019 by BaconRaygun

[Sleepy]

If you've ever been in the military, or around real airplanes, you'd know that if the Chief said to touch up November Hotel one-eleven, you touched up November Hotel one-eleven, and you didn't worry too awfully much about exactly what color the touchups were.  If the Navy doesn't stress about exactly what color the touchups are (and they demonstrably didn't then, and still don't today), then why should we?

[picknpluck]

Good points...I can only speak for myself as I frequently ask about paint specifics: when I ask, I’m looking for a starting point. Paint options at the LHS are becoming increasingly limited as his Model Master and Tamiya stash depletes. For whatever reason, he won’t stock other paint brands. That means I have to order my paint. I’d rather avoid getting hung up on a build because I’m doing trial by error with paint colors. If someone else has done a similar project and has good feedback on a suggested color to use for something, I’m all about soliciting that info. And let’s face it: the sole purpose of ARC is to exchange information related to our shared interest.

[Keroburner89]

Well this thread has taken an interesting turn... But as an advocate of healthy discourse, I welcome the thoughts on the topic. 

 

For me personally, I'm aware of the futility of trying to match things 100% because I do know the effects of lighting and what you have on hand in the operational world etc etc. I was more fishing to work out what that dark colour was roughly on the leading edges which are so stark; guesstimating that in the spraying process needed a little advice.  

Last thing I wanted to do was spray dirt brown when in reality it's closer to hot pink 😆

 

[picknpluck]

1 minute ago, Keroburner89 said:

Well this thread has taken an interesting turn... But as an advocate of healthy discourse, I welcome the thoughts on the topic. 

 

For me personally, I'm aware of the futility of trying to match things 100% because I do know the effects of lighting and what you have on hand in the operational world etc etc. I was more fishing to work out what that dark colour was roughly on the leading edges which are so stark; guesstimating that in the spraying process needed a little advice.  

Last thing I wanted to do was spray dirt brown when in reality it's closer to hot pink 😆

 

If it were my build, I’d probably try FS36081 for that dark stuff.

[Keroburner89]

37 minutes ago, picknpluck said:

If it were my build, I’d probably try FS36081 for that dark stuff.

 

Awesome, many thanks.

 

I think, but I will need to check some more photos, that there's a greeny-grey rattle can touch up paint used. There are a few RLM colours that may work... I think

[picknpluck]

1 minute ago, Keroburner89 said:

 

Awesome, many thanks.

 

I think, but I will need to check some more photos, that there's a greeny-grey rattle can touch up paint used. There are a few RLM colours that may work... I think

Yellow zinc chromate, perhaps?

[habu2]

Knowing gloss gull gray dulls quickly, would the touch-up paint appear glossy? (Regardless of color)

[Napalmakita]

10 hours ago, Sleepy said:

The VC-12 maintenance officer (who was also an IPMS member) at Oceana once told me they had one of their airplanes out for the Oceana open house.  He noticed a little group of guys clustered around it, holding their 595 fan deck up to the touchup paint.  He said he stood there and watched them argue for several minutes before he went over and told them the touchups were Craftsman automotive primer purchased at Sears.

 

Don't sweat the exact color.

Haha!!  This.  I was building a Harrier for my bro who flew them at the time.  I asked a similar question about touch up colors, what color was the tail...he said "man, I don't know, the guys in the shop use whatever paint they find laying around that day".  It was at that moment when I decided to stop spending days worrying about something that no one knows or cares about.  

[Keroburner89]

6 minutes ago, picknpluck said:

Yellow zinc chromate, perhaps?

 

Interesting... could be. I've got a few references in book form I'll have to look at. I'll try and share the images for the sake of the exercise, as it's an interesting topic.

[picknpluck]

2 minutes ago, Keroburner89 said:

 

Interesting... could be. I've got a few references in book form I'll have to look at. I'll try and share the images for the sake of the exercise, as it's an interesting topic.

Like this? Actually, green zinc chromate might be better.

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by picknpluck

[Keroburner89]

 

 

I knew these photos were out there somewhere- exactly! 
That looks awesome

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Keroburner89

[Mstor]

1 hour ago, picknpluck said:

Like this? Actually, green zinc chromate might be better.

 

 

Good grief, it looks like its been slimed

Seriously though, this is an interesting thread.

[jester292]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:43 PM, Keroburner89 said:

Howdy folks,

 

I'm in the spray booth process of this VF-213 F-4G below. I've noticed some substantial touch ups on the top fuselage as well as what I think is probably corrosion control on the leading edges.

 

My question is what colours am I looking for here? Bit hard with it being black and white, but perhaps someone knows of some colour photos showing similar?  Is the touch up on the top just fresh 16440? And the corrosion control, primer green or something darker? I recall seeing a dark green but not 100% sure of something similar being used. 

 

Cheers all, happy building!

 

 

 

Nice looking F-4 but that certainly isn’t a G. Is this possibly a B or N? 

[Mstor]

13 minutes ago, jester292 said:

 

Nice looking F-4 but that certainly isn’t a G. Is this possibly a B or N? 

 

I believe Keroburner89 is correct. Here is another photo of the same airframe. Definitely shows F-4G above the BuNo. :

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:F-4G_Phantom_II_(US_Navy_version)#/media/File:F-4G_Phantom_of_VF-116_at_NAS_Miramar_1963.jpg

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Mstor

[jester292]

13 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

I believe Keroburner89 is correct. Here is another photo of the same airframe. Definitely shows F-4G above the BuNo. :

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:F-4G_Phantom_II_(US_Navy_version)#/media/File:F-4G_Phantom_of_VF-116_at_NAS_Miramar_1963.jpg

 

 

If so, and I’ve been wrong before, I’m left scratching my head. F-4Gs were Electronic Warfare airframes developed from F-4Es. Were there two F-4G designs?

 

Wow, I never knew. 

 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/remembering-u-s-navy-f-4g-phantom-perform-automatic-carrier-landings/

Edited August 9, 2019 by jester292

[Mstor]

Yep, looks like you figured it out. There was a Navy F-4G. Only 12 (I think) airframes converted from F-4Bs to test an automatic carrier landing system.