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Did I Go Crazy with Airbrushes?


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Hi All,

 

I've written in another post here about my current airbrushes, a Paasche Model H, (single action) using a .3mm needle, and an Iwata HP-C Plus (double action, fine control).  I've stayed away from the Iwata for the last many years, primarily because of my perception of how horribly difficult I felt it was to tear down and clean.  My recollection of doing that cleaning what nightmarish, and sufficient to set that very nice airbrush aside, and lean on the single action.  The Paasche, in comparison, was, and is, so VERY easy to completely tear down (3 parts?) and soak parts if needed.  This past weekend, I used the Iwata for the first time in forever, using it to spray the kind of paint that in the past terrified me, Mr. Color Lacquer paint.  To what do I attribute my newfound confidence?  Buying some new airbrushes!  

 

I went somewhat wild over the last few weeks.  I bought a Harder and Steenbeck Evolution CR Plus a week or so ago, and this past weekend, I went totally crazy and bought an Iwata Revolution HP-M2 gravity feed single action airbrush.  Regarding the Iwata HP-C Plus 'confidence', I guess I felt that with a brand new double action airbrush as a 'backup', I didn't need to fear messing up my only high end brush.  And I had fantastic success in using the HP-C this weekend with perfectly thinned Mr. Color lacquer, and I think I've come to the conclusion that the problems I had had with the HP-C previously, I could attribute to insufficient thinning of paint.  And, with the paint thinned to the proper consistency, cleanup, while still nasty, with lacquer thinner, was not that terribly difficult.

 

What possessed me to get the new Iwata HP-M2?  Well, I really like the simplicity of my Paasche, however, I've never really been a big fan of the syphon feed airbrush, so I start thinking...can I take advantage of the unique gravity feed combined with the relative simplicity of a single action airbrush? 

 

So, now, I am the proud, but perhaps goofy, owner of 4 airbrushes (or at least, soon to be 4, once the HP-M2 arrives).  Will I use the new brushes?  Well, I'm inclined to plan to use the HP-M2, since that is really a different design, and I'm likely to see different performance using a significant'y different configuration for an airbrush.  Will I use the H&S double action brush?  All depends on what success I continue to have with my older Iwata.  Is it stupid to have a beautiful, relatively high end airbrush only to sit idle in its box?  I don't know.  To me, the H&S is kind of an 'insurance policy' which has given me some freedom to do what I should have been doing all along, in terms of teardown and paint thinning, with my Iwata.

 

So, I just wanted to ask you all if anyone else has done what I've done, and bought what seems, even to me, backups for airbrushes that I will undoubtedly use one day, but will hold in standby for now.  What do you think?  Did I go unjustifiably crazy in expenditures?  Of can you understand any of my logic?  Just curious what you guys may think...

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You are not alone. I started collecting airbrushes instead of kits, they take less room. It is also fun to try different airbrushes. At this point I could probably be a certified Badger technician, and sales person. 

Edited by Kurt H.
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Me too, go four brushes, though I regularly use only two of them, the H&S Infinity and an Iwata Eclipse HP-SBS. I'd like to get an Eclipse HP-CS one of these days. The Eclipse series are good workhorse airbrushes and relatively easy to clean. The H&S Infinity is a breeze to clean. I love it.

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I've got just one, an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS+.    Not the best for covering a lot of area, but I'm on a budget, and it made more sense to get something that excelled in fine work than something that covered a lot of area well.  

 

I think if I were to get a second, I would get a mini spray gun instead... and use it for primer, clear coat and other non-modelling  related projects. 

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I wouldnt say so.
Ive a few dozen myself, bought over the past 30 years. But then when I started I wasnt just spraying models with them. Now I dont do illustration and photo retouching then that many is a bit daft.

 

If you want a nice airbrush you should look at oneof the purple box Iwata models

Edited by ElectroSoldier
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  • 2 weeks later...

Man you dropped some coin.

I have several airbrushes I use but nothing fancier than Paasche, Badger, and a Harbor Freight products.

Now that being said I do have a small airtbrush collection. I have a Paasche AB Turbo, V,  H,  F,  several Wolds, Thayer and Chandlers and Badgers. Those look good in a display case! I have never actually tried to run paint through any of them.  so I guess I'm crazier than you are. Lol...

Cheers,

Max Bryant

Edited by mightymax
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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, marvin20 said:

I have the following double action airbrushes: 3 Badger Khromes, 3 Badger Sotars, 2 Badger Patriots, 1 Iwata Eclipse, and 1 Badger 350 single action airbrush. 😲

Hi Marvin,

 

Just curious...why do you have multiple airbrushes of the same kind/type?  I am not an artist in any way, bu I understand that some modelers dedicate certain airbrushes to one type of paint (say, acrylic, enamel, lacquer), and some artist types work with multiple colors while doing artwork and want the same brush for 'feel'.  Do you use all of your airbrushes, or have you just 'ended up' with multiples for no specific reason?

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Curt,

 

I wound up with so many airbrushes just due to shear luck, I guess. I started off with my trusty Badger 350 single action airbrush, had that for decades before trying a double action airbrush, which was the Iwata Eclipse. I had been using Model Master enamel paints with good results with my trusty 350, then decided I wanted to try acrylic paints, and tried using Vallejo Model Color paints with the Iwata, with horrible results. Switched back to enamels, using the Iwata, and was able to get some pretty thin lines with it, and started using it exclusively for all of my airbrushing needs. Then I went to the 2009 IPMS Nationals in Columbus, Ohio and made the mistake of visiting the Badger Airbrush booth, where I and my dear friend got to play with the Badger Renegade. What an airbrush! I was hooked, bought one as soon as I got home, was able to find an online coupon to get it for 40% off. It was the old design, where the hole for the needle wasn't locate at the bottom of the cup, and therefore there were issues getting all of the paint out of the cup without holding it at an uncomfortable angle. So, I saw that they had changed the design and made it better, but hadn't decided if I wanted to get one. In the meantime, a stroke of luck occurred, I saw that Amazon was selling the Badger Sotar around Christmas time and I got one for the unheard of price of $40 USD!!!! I absolutely love using this airbrush, the only drawback is the size of the paint cup and it not having a cap to cover the cup, which if you weren't careful you could spill paint out of the cup onto the subject you were painting!  Then I had issues with my Renegade and Sotar, had to send them back for servicing, so I went back to using the Eclipse while they were being serviced. Bought the first Patriot then to be able to paint large subjects as the tip size is much larger than the Sotar and Renegade. I then got my additional 2 Khromes and 2 Sotars during their Birthday sale that Badger ran, where you could order as many airbrushes as you wanted for $57 USD, I think. But one of each of the Khromes and Sotars have a .2mm tip and the other ones have a .3mm tip. I have since added Mission Model paints, which are a true acrylic paint to my inventory, and I find that I am able to get longer airbrushing periods using the .3mm tip, before the tip clogs, than I do with the .2mm tip. I use the Patriot to paint large models when they are single/two colors (i.e.: Olive Drab over Neutral Grey), or painting armor kits. I use the .2mm tip airbrush when I am spraying Gunze or Tamiya paints, as I can thin them and get some really fine lines with it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I have three and all are expensive ones. I am a sucker for airbrushes and planning buy more in the future 😄

 

I have, H&S Infinity, Iwata Hi-line CH and Mr. Hobby PS770.

 

My favorite is PS770 and recommend to anyone. The least favorite but still good is Infinity. I dont like its trigger. 

 

I am planning to buy PS-266 0.5mm. so saving money 😄 😄😄 

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On 9/16/2019 at 4:17 PM, marvin20 said:

Curt,

 

I wound up with so many airbrushes just due to shear luck, I guess. I started off with my trusty Badger 350 single action airbrush, had that for decades before trying a double action airbrush, which was the Iwata Eclipse. I had been using Model Master enamel paints with good results with my trusty 350, then decided I wanted to try acrylic paints, and tried using Vallejo Model Color paints with the Iwata, with horrible results. Switched back to enamels, using the Iwata, and was able to get some pretty thin lines with it, and started using it exclusively for all of my airbrushing needs. Then I went to the 2009 IPMS Nationals in Columbus, Ohio and made the mistake of visiting the Badger Airbrush booth, where I and my dear friend got to play with the Badger Renegade. What an airbrush! I was hooked, bought one as soon as I got home, was able to find an online coupon to get it for 40% off. It was the old design, where the hole for the needle wasn't locate at the bottom of the cup, and therefore there were issues getting all of the paint out of the cup without holding it at an uncomfortable angle. So, I saw that they had changed the design and made it better, but hadn't decided if I wanted to get one. In the meantime, a stroke of luck occurred, I saw that Amazon was selling the Badger Sotar around Christmas time and I got one for the unheard of price of $40 USD!!!! I absolutely love using this airbrush, the only drawback is the size of the paint cup and it not having a cap to cover the cup, which if you weren't careful you could spill paint out of the cup onto the subject you were painting!  Then I had issues with my Renegade and Sotar, had to send them back for servicing, so I went back to using the Eclipse while they were being serviced. Bought the first Patriot then to be able to paint large subjects as the tip size is much larger than the Sotar and Renegade. I then got my additional 2 Khromes and 2 Sotars during their Birthday sale that Badger ran, where you could order as many airbrushes as you wanted for $57 USD, I think. But one of each of the Khromes and Sotars have a .2mm tip and the other ones have a .3mm tip. I have since added Mission Model paints, which are a true acrylic paint to my inventory, and I find that I am able to get longer airbrushing periods using the .3mm tip, before the tip clogs, than I do with the .2mm tip. I use the Patriot to paint large models when they are single/two colors (i.e.: Olive Drab over Neutral Grey), or painting armor kits. I use the .2mm tip airbrush when I am spraying Gunze or Tamiya paints, as I can thin them and get some really fine lines with it.

 Marvin,

So sorry to be so long in responding to your reply.    Thank you so much for the details about how you acquired and how you use your brushes!  As for me, despite what I thought was an epiphany regarding thinning of lacquer paints, and using a double action brush, I remain afraid of the need to disassemble and clean the double actions, and find myself going back to using the Paasche H, for everything.  I hate that my fear of cleaning airbrushes has driven me back to the simplest brush I have, with my two most recent, pricey brushes remaining untried and unused.  Perhaps I should look around and try to find good airbrushes at bargain prices, as you have, and perhaps reduced cost for a brush will motivate me to use those in lieu of the trusty Paasche.  Again, I appreciate your great response!!

Curt

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Curt,

 

No problem. I hope that you are able to finally use your double action airbrushes soon. I personally disassemble my airbrushes after each airbrushing session and clean it with either 90% or greater Isopropyl Alcohol, or lacquer thinner. I first spray a cup full of these through the airbrush to ensure that I have gotten most of the paint out of the system. Then I will take it to my bench, take it apart and clean the tip, needle, cup and exterior with cotton buds (Q-Tips) and a dampened (with alcohol) piece of paper/kitchen towel. If I am spraying multiple colors during that session, I will only run alcohol or lacquer thinner through the airbrush in-between the different colors and at the end of the painting session strip/clean the airbrush before putting it away. 

 

I'm sure that one you disassemble the airbrush a few times, it will help reduce the anxiety you have towards doing so. You can also check with some fellow modelers in your area, I'm sure they would be willing to either show you how, or be there to watch and guide you as you disassemble the airbrush and reassemble it.

 

I see that you live in the Las Vegas area, are you a member of the IPMS/Las Vegas club? If so, do you know Ken Krieger? He used to be a member of the IPMS/John H. Glenn club that I belong to here in the Cleveland, OH area. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, marvin20 said:

Curt,

 

No problem. I hope that you are able to finally use your double action airbrushes soon. I personally disassemble my airbrushes after each airbrushing session and clean it with either 90% or greater Isopropyl Alcohol, or lacquer thinner. I first spray a cup full of these through the airbrush to ensure that I have gotten most of the paint out of the system. Then I will take it to my bench, take it apart and clean the tip, needle, cup and exterior with cotton buds (Q-Tips) and a dampened (with alcohol) piece of paper/kitchen towel. If I am spraying multiple colors during that session, I will only run alcohol or lacquer thinner through the airbrush in-between the different colors and at the end of the painting session strip/clean the airbrush before putting it away. 

 

I'm sure that one you disassemble the airbrush a few times, it will help reduce the anxiety you have towards doing so. You can also check with some fellow modelers in your area, I'm sure they would be willing to either show you how, or be there to watch and guide you as you disassemble the airbrush and reassemble it.

 

I see that you live in the Las Vegas area, are you a member of the IPMS/Las Vegas club? If so, do you know Ken Krieger? He used to be a member of the IPMS/John H. Glenn club that I belong to here in the Cleveland, OH area. 

 

 

Hi Marvin,

 

I have actually disassembled my Iwata HP-C+ and it wasn't too bad.  I am like you, in that I take even my Paasche apart after a painting session.  I find, though, the the threads on the 2 main parts of that brush seem to get loose really quickly after a few dozen disassemblies, almost like the threads are getting worn.  Seems odd that metal would do that so quickly.  Perhaps it's the quality of the metal, too soft, maybe?  It's frustrating, whatever the reason.  I have purchased a number of sets of those parts with that in mind, but even for that relatively inexpensive brush, lots of spare parts get pricey.

 

It would be nice to get the opinions of other modelers about whether I'm doing the disassemble/reassembly of my double action brush the right way.  I have serval spare parts for the Iwata, too, and have spares for the Harder and Steenbeck, too, for when (IF?) I ever start using it.  I am fortunate in that I cost really isn't a huge issue for me, I can buy most things I need/want without worrying TOO much about cost, but I still don't like to spend more than I need to.  

 

I am a member of the Vegas IPMS club, but I've not yet attended a meeting.  Thank you for your friend's name, and I will most assuredly look for him when I get off my bottom and get to a meeting.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, to add to my airbrush insanity, a few things happened this weekend.  On another thread here on ArcAir, I got involved in a discussion about the Badger Sotar as being an excellent small detail airbrush, but at a really reasonable price point ($90 at Spraygunners.com, plus a 7% off as a new customer).  After pondering it, I had pull the trigger.  So, now i have one of those on the way to me.  And...something really odd happened this weekend with the Iwata HP-C Plus brush.  I had been using it to spray some black MRP paint for panel lines, and then, when putting new paint into it after a simple flush for a different purpose, I noted that the brush would not spray.  And that the color cup was bubbling.  I knew this wasn't good.  Plus, the decent amount of pain in the color cup had dropped considerably.  I stopped and pulled the airbrush apart, and the entire inner working of the brush were full of the lacquer paint I'd been planning to spray.  I have no idea what happened, other than the possibility of one of the o rings letting loose and filling the entire brush with paint.  Since that Iwata had been the first double action brush I ever had, and I felt that there were issues with it, in that it was spitting the MRP, I figured it was time t retire it.  However, because I have so many replacement parts for that brush, I decided to replace it with a new one, same model.  So, now I'm REALLY nuts with air brushes. 

 

And Marvin, I still don't have an answer for you about your friend, but I have not forgotten and will try to look him up!

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1 hour ago, Curt B said:

Well, to add to my airbrush insanity, a few things happened this weekend.  On another thread here on ArcAir, I got involved in a discussion about the Badger Sotar as being an excellent small detail airbrush, but at a really reasonable price point ($90 at Spraygunners.com, plus a 7% off as a new customer).  After pondering it, I had pull the trigger.  So, now i have one of those on the way to me.  And...something really odd happened this weekend with the Iwata HP-C Plus brush.  I had been using it to spray some black MRP paint for panel lines, and then, when putting new paint into it after a simple flush for a different purpose, I noted that the brush would not spray.  And that the color cup was bubbling.  I knew this wasn't good.  Plus, the decent amount of pain in the color cup had dropped considerably.  I stopped and pulled the airbrush apart, and the entire inner working of the brush were full of the lacquer paint I'd been planning to spray.  I have no idea what happened, other than the possibility of one of the o rings letting loose and filling the entire brush with paint.  Since that Iwata had been the first double action brush I ever had, and I felt that there were issues with it, in that it was spitting the MRP, I figured it was time t retire it.  However, because I have so many replacement parts for that brush, I decided to replace it with a new one, same model.  So, now I'm REALLY nuts with air brushes. 

 

And Marvin, I still don't have an answer for you about your friend, but I have not forgotten and will try to look him up!

 

Could be a failure of a rear needle seal. I have had this happen on H&S Infinity. It is the seal that would normally prevent fluids from entering the central workings of the airbrush (i.e. where the trigger and air feed are). If this seal fails it allows paint to flow into that area. Checking with an HP-C Plus diagram, I believe it is called the Needle Packing Screw Set (maybe a set screw and a PTFE seal).

 

Here's pic of the seal:

https://merriartist.com/collections/replacement-parts-for-the-iwata-hi-performance-plus-hp-c-plus/products/i-725-1

 

Edited by Mstor
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After your description and the part picture, I think you are correct.  Really unfortunate.  I read an article on Doogs website about an experience he had  a similar problem, though I don’t recall whether he ever said what part failed.  What did stick with me about his experience, though, was that even after repeated attempts to clean the airbrush, it has never really worked the same again.  I didn’t and don’t want to deal with that, hence my desire to start from scratch with a new brush.  I may tear the old one apart, though, to do a ‘post mortem’ on the failure.  The good news is that I was able to salvage a good percentage of the parts as spares for the new one.  Thanks for your thoughts. 

Edited by Curt B
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After your description and the part picture, I think you are correct.  Really unfortunate.  I read an article on Doogs website about an experience he had  a similar problem, though I don’t recall whether he ever said what part failed.  What did stick with me about his experience, though, was that even after repeated attempts to clean the airbrush, it has never really worked the same again.  I didn’t and don’t want to deal with that, hence my desire to start from scratch with a new brush.  I may tear the old one apart, though, to do a ‘post mortem’ on the failure.  The good news is that I was able to salvage a good percentage of the parts as spares for the new one.  Thanks for your thoughts. 

 

You know, it is possible that you could get some more life out of the seal by re-tightening it. You would need to remove everything in the needle's path so that you can access the set screw for the seal, including the nozzle and the trigger mechanism. Normally you would use a special tool for removing, replacing and adjusting this seal, but it can be done with a small screwdriver. First, using the screwdriver, remove the seal and inspect it. If damaged it needs replacing. If not, replace the setscrew and packing in the airbrush. Do not tighten the screw. Slide the needle through it, blunt end first to avoid any damage to the point. If is feels loose, i.e. slides through without any resistance, remove the needle and use the screwdriver to tighten the set screw slightly. Repeat inserting the needle and tightening until there is slight resistance. This indicates the seal is making contact with the seal. Reassemble the airbrush and test the seal by filling the paint cup with some thinner. If it still leaks through, replace the seal, if not, its fixed. I would still put a new seal on your shopping list, they usually cheap.

Well, after reading through what I wrote, I doubt it is something you'll want to mess with, though I will say this. Getting to know how to work on your airbrush can help to make the the whole airbrush experience easier and more rewarding. As I mentioned, I had the same problem with my H&S Infinity. H&S must have realized that it was a problem area because the released a redesigned, deeper seal. I had been using a screwdriver to get at the seal, but finally bought the special tool (under $10) and now replacing that seal is a breeze and I haven't had problems since using the redesigned seal.

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Wow, tremendous detail in your thoughts on my problem, sir!  I greatly appreciate the time you took in responding to my situation. Again, while I may have issues and concerns with that old brush, dismantling it and looking for the problem you describe could at least provide some useful knowledge for the future.  You are very kind to have given me that much of your time. Thanks so very much!

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Wow, tremendous detail in your thoughts on my problem, sir!  I greatly appreciate the time you took in responding to my situation. Again, while I may have issues and concerns with that old brush, dismantling it and looking for the problem you describe could at least provide some useful knowledge for the future.  You are very kind to have given me that much of your time. Thanks so very much!

 

No problem. :thumbsup2:

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