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Tapchan

Su-33 vs Su-37

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Everything. Su-37 is based upon T-10M (original soviet Su-35) and frame was simply bigger, everything else you can think of, from cockpit to landing gear is different too.

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You might get away with using the windscreen and canopy, but - as Berkut points out - they are totally different airframes.

 

Oh.... and the wingtip missile launch rails....... :whistle:

 

Ken

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I thought Trumpeter made an Su-37 and Wolfpack did a conversion for the Academy kit?

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There are 4 different wings (T10 prototypes/Su-27/Su-33/Su-33UB), about five different fins(Su-27/Su-27UB/Su-30MKI/Su-30MKK/Su-33 etc etc), at least six different tailbooms (Early Su-27, late Su-27, Su-35 (T10M), Su-35S,  Su-34, T10-20, P-42 etc etc), different nose and main wheelsetc etc.

 

I could go on.... just be aware that there are dozens of differences - for specifics, the Su-33 wing has increased area with double-slotted flaps for carrier landings, a shorter tailboom with a flat underside for a tailhook - and the end of which folds up to shorten its deck footprint, folding wings and tailplanes, shorter fins to fit inside the deck hangar - the Su-35(T10M) has the 'standard' Su-27 wing, but taller square-topped fins containg fuel, a bigger/fatter front fuselage/radome, a conical tailboom tip with rear-facing radar.

 

There's more - but you can see that you can spend a lifetime modelling Flankers.....

 

flank_01.jpg

 

.... and still not do them all.... (note this is but a few I built years ago - there are at least adozen built/added since)

 

Ken (not in the least Flanker obsessed...)

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15 hours ago, Berkut said:

Everything. Su-37 is based upon T-10M (original soviet Su-35) and frame was simply bigger, everything else you can think of, from cockpit to landing gear is different too.

 

Frame is bigger? You mean general dimensions? What did you mean by "frame"? 

 

 

16 hours ago, Tapchan said:

Can anyone point out visual differences between Su-33 and Su-37 except of foldable wings?

 

Just to be sure, you mean this one, right?

 

Sukhoi-Su-37-at-Farnborough-1996-airshow

 

 

Edited by foxmulder_ms

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19 hours ago, Whiskey said:

I thought Trumpeter made an Su-37 and Wolfpack did a conversion for the Academy kit?

 

Definitely this trumpeter wasn't in 1/48 scale. Frame conversion.... way beyond my skills. 😞

 

19 hours ago, Flankerman said:

There are 4 different wings (T10 prototypes/Su-27/Su-33/Su-33UB), about five different fins(Su-27/Su-27UB/Su-30MKI/Su-30MKK/Su-33 etc etc), at least six different tailbooms (Early Su-27, late Su-27, Su-35 (T10M), Su-35S,  Su-34, T10-20, P-42 etc etc), different nose and main wheelsetc etc.

 

I could go on.... just be aware that there are dozens of differences - for specifics, the Su-33 wing has increased area with double-slotted flaps for carrier landings, a shorter tailboom with a flat underside for a tailhook - and the end of which folds up to shorten its deck footprint, folding wings and tailplanes, shorter fins to fit inside the deck hangar - the Su-35(T10M) has the 'standard' Su-27 wing, but taller square-topped fins containg fuel, a bigger/fatter front fuselage/radome, a conical tailboom tip with rear-facing radar.

 

There's more - but you can see that you can spend a lifetime modelling Flankers.....

 

flank_01.jpg

 

.... and still not do them all.... (note this is but a few I built years ago - there are at least adozen built/added since)

 

Ken (not in the least Flanker obsessed...)

 

Nice collection, I start to think it may have some connection with your nickname. You've dragged my attention to so many flanker varieties now.

 

14 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

Just to be sure, you mean this one, right?

 

Sukhoi-Su-37-at-Farnborough-1996-airshow

 

 

 

I've heared there was just one Su-37 built so probably yes, this one.

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There were 15 Su-35's (Su-27M/T10M) built - Bort 701 to 712 + 86/87/88.

 

Bort 711 was fitted with Thrust Vector Control (TVC) nozzles and re-named as a Su-37 (it was also called 'Terminator' in Sukhoi publicity brochures).

 

After a few years in this configuration, the TVC nozzles/engines were removed and it reverted to being a 'Su-35' - before crashing in 2002.

 

More on Wiki.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-37

 

Ken

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15 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

Frame is bigger? You mean general dimensions? What did you mean by "frame"?

Cross-section of the fuselage is significantly larger. This is easily seen from the radome and stinger.

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Berkut et Ken, can you provide specific reference other than "looking at pictures" where it is reported that the T10M had a larger front fuselage diameter.

We all know about the fins, stingers and airbrakes.

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It has been a long time since i have read any Flanker books but i would be surprised if the major ones didnt mention it at all. Otherwise;

 

iwTo581.jpg

 

I had a nicer, higher resolution stuff somewhere but that is what i found for now anyway.

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The profile difference in 1/72 scale is negligible all the way to the Su-27 radome break.

The difference in fins and tail stinger was well publicized.

So to answer the OP on how to make a Su-35 (T-10M) or Su-37, refer to a thread in Britmodeller where the builder crosskits a Su-33 with a Su-27SM,

However I suggest to use a Su-30SM and a Su-33 from Zvezda.

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10 hours ago, hemspilot said:

However I suggest to use a Su-30SM and a Su-33 from Zvezda.

 

But you still need to source a taller, square-tipped fin (from a Su-30MKK kit), a new nosegear/twin wheels (Su-30MKK), a new, fatter radome (resin?) - and new TVC nozzles (they aren't provided in the Zvezda Su-30SM kit :crying: - they are in the Hasegawa Su-35S kit) and reprofile the tailboom tip.....

 

Then you would have to somehow graft the Su-33 single seat front upper fuselage onto the Su-30SM kit etc etc...

 

You'd also need to change the cockpit panels (depending on the scale and how far you want to go)

 

It's all do-able - but expensive in cannibalising various kits.

 

I did a Su-37 many years ago in 1/72 scale starting with the Airfix Su-27.......

 

flank_28.jpg

 

I scratched the canards, fins, nosegear and (very crude) TVC nozzles - I didn't bother with the radome (apart from removing the pitot) as it isn't that visually different in 1/72 scale.

 

Bottom line - a lot of work is needed to do a Su-35/37.

 

Ken

 

 

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Ken, the Zvezda Su-30 SM does provide TVC nozzles and the twin wheel nose gear, if not happy with that there are very good aftermarket products.

On the other end of the swap you end up with a Shenyang J-17.

So you still get two models out of two models.

We are all inspired by your skills.

 

It’s the modeling part in modeler, rather than assembler.

Edited by hemspilot

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2 hours ago, hemspilot said:

Ken, the Zvezda Su-30 SM does provide TVC nozzles and the twin wheel nose gear

 

My apologies to you - and Zvezda - you are correct.

 

I just eyeballed the sprue inside its bag and quickly perused the instruction sheet - and missed the TVC nozzles completely.

 

I thouight it was a bit remiss of Zvezda not to include one of the defining features of a Su-30SM :woot.gif: - knowing the designer Alexandr.

 

So, to re-visit the Su-37...... in 1/72 scale,  take one Zvezda Su-30SM, graft on the single-seat forward upper fuselage and source the taller. wet fins - and viola - you have a Su-37!!

 

I like your J-17 idea as well - the leftover Su-33 with twin tandem seats :worship:

 

I feel a Flanker itch coming on......

 

Ken

 

PS........ I think it's about time to hand over my crown to someone less decrepit - I'm losing it too often lately.

 

PPS - Any good, new photos of a J-17 - is it operational yet ??

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Stll need to add a small constant diameter section before the new radome according to Berkut's renderings.

 

As far as the J-17 is concerned, all I have seen are photos of the J-15S and J-15D and a mention that they are going to be merged into a single type for shipborne SEAD and Electronic warare a-la Growler.

Hope you get on the idea and pull another Flankerstein of yours.

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Let me add that the 11 (I believe) SU-27M or T10M airframes built had at least three variations of the stinger design that eventually merged in the design seen on T10M-10 and 11.

Also, at least initially, T10M-1 had the single nosewheel of the standard SU-27.

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Lots of T10M's had a single nosewheel - they were converted from standard Su-27's to test various aspects of the Su-35.

 

701, 702, 705, 706, 707 all had single nosewheels - and Su-27-style raked fins.

 

Also, there were 15 built - prototypes 701 to 712 plus three 'production' examples - 86,87 and 88 ....

 

Ken

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T10M-3 (703), T10M-12 (712) and 86, 87 & 88 ended up with the Russian Knights flight demo team - painted up in their colours as Borts 1,2,3,4 & 5.

 

They never flew a display with the team and were last seen languishing at the team's base at Kubinka.

 

Ken

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Ken, in your book from the late 80's on Modelling Soviet Aircraft (thanks again for signing my copy btw), is the MASSIVELY radical conversion  to correct the original Revell kit from the book in that group photo above?

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Blimey Andrew - that's a blast from the past!!!

 

The answer is no - the much-modified Revell Flanker isn't in that group photo - it didn't make the cut.

 

Regards

 

Ken

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