Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums

Sign in to follow this  
compressorman

Do I need another airbrush for fine work?

Recommended Posts

I have a Badger 155 (siphon) that I use for primers and my beloved Iwata HP-CS that I use for everything else. I was wondering if I am really missing out by not having an ultra-fine ab to use occasionally ?  Ihave thought about the H and S infinity but it is in the 'holy cow!' price range.I have also looked at the Badger Sotar fine (only $90} which seems super affordable and gets great reviews.  I do freehand camo and enjoy painting minis and my eclipse has done everything I need it to do. But I have never used a finer brush than the eclipse and wonder what kind of difference it would make?

 

Edit:

I should say that i pretty much just use acrylics, mostly mission models paint. I certainly would not want to buy an ab that would not spray my preferred paint

 

Chris

Edited by compressorman
add

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First and foremost, I don't freehand camo, so you may well be past my admittedly middling skills.

 

With that, I find 0.5mm (HP-TH) and 0.3mm (HP-CH) to be ideal. In addition to primers, I use the 0.5mm nozzle for base colors, metallics (Alclad and Mr Color), and clear coats. I haven't found anything so fine that the 0.3mm can't handle. I do spray thin paint, like 1% milk consistency, at ~15psi (1 atm), and around 0.25 to 1.75 inches. I always rely on multiple coats unless I'm over coating for color variation.

 

HTH

-- 

dnl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, what kind of paint do you prefer to use?

 

The badger Sotar 20/20 really changed the way I paint models, and opened up a lot of possibilities for me. I use Lacquers, and with very thin lacquers you can spray very fine lines, which makes freehand camo much easier.  If you want to try black basing and marble coating,  it is much easier with a super fine airbrush.  

 

I love the sotar and recommend it.  Badger also has the Rengade Krome, which has the same needle geometry, but a longer body.  You can also consider the Mr. Hobby PS-770, and the Iwata Custom Micron. 

 

I prefer the short nose of the Sotar, but your preferences may vary.   I hope it helps.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Kurt H. said:

First of all, what kind of paint do you prefer to use?

 

The badger Sotar 20/20 really changed the way I paint models, and opened up a lot of possibilities for me. I use Lacquers, and with very thin lacquers you can spray very fine lines, which makes freehand camo much easier.  If you want to try black basing and marble coating,  it is much easier with a super fine airbrush.  

 

I love the sotar and recommend it.  Badger also has the Rengade Krome, which has the same needle geometry, but a longer body.  You can also consider the Mr. Hobby PS-770, and the Iwata Custom Micron. 

 

I prefer the short nose of the Sotar, but your preferences may vary.   I hope it helps.

 

 

I pretty much use Mission Models paint, and sometimes Vallejo. That is my worry, will this thick acrylic go through that teensy nozzle without continuous trouble. I know what you are talking about with thin paint. I used to paint motorcycle tanks and helmets with House of Kolor and it was probably thinner than water. A dream to spray!

 

Edited by compressorman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought I'd chime in on this thread.  While not my own experience, I have a modeling friend who uses his Paasche Model H airbrush for everything he paints, including mottling on 1/72 scale airplanes.  I've not seen him 'in action' as it were, but it's his assertion that if you know what you're doing, you can make most any tool work for you.

 

As you probably know, the Paasche H is as simple of an airbrush as there is.  I own one myself and I've used it for almost all my airbrushing needs over the last several years, precisely because of how simple it is to operate, but most mostly because of how easy it is to CLEAN.  But I admit to being mystified as to how to do the kind of work my friend does (I've not seen him actually do that mottling) and I'm not sure that I could do it without significant spatter, but he does, which tells me that it CAN be done.  So, do you NEED another airbrush for fine work?  I would tell you no, but might it make life easier?  I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Edited by Curt B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sotar 20/20.  Probably the best bang for the buck when it comes to a fine tip airbrush for fine work. 

 

Cheers

Collin

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Curt B said:

 So, do you NEED another airbrush for fine work?  I would tell you no, but might it make life easier?  I'm guessing the answer is yes.

 

You are so right, perhaps I phrased my initial question badly. It should have been 'I want another ab, would this work?' 🙂  My Eclipse is pretty sweet and certainly capable of more than I am. I painted this for a customer long ago with a Passche VL with a gigantic medium tip (not sure of the actual size) and I find my Eclipse much more capable than the VL, al least for detail.

 

tank2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Kurt H. said:

First of all, what kind of paint do you prefer to use?

 

The badger Sotar 20/20 really changed the way I paint models, and opened up a lot of possibilities for me. I use Lacquers, and with very thin lacquers you can spray very fine lines, which makes freehand camo much easier.  If you want to try black basing and marble coating,  it is much easier with a super fine airbrush.  

 

I love the sotar and recommend it.  Badger also has the Rengade Krome, which has the same needle geometry, but a longer body.  You can also consider the Mr. Hobby PS-770, and the Iwata Custom Micron. 

 

I prefer the short nose of the Sotar, but your preferences may vary.   I hope it helps.

 

I just looked up the Badger Sotar airbrush, and it's really cool looking, and gets good reviews.  One thing that I don't understand is the pricing.  I noted that Spraygunners sells it for $90, while Coast Airbrush, where I've purchased most of my airbrushes, sells what appears to be the same airbrush, for $306, over 3 times the price!  What's up with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Curt B said:

I just looked up the Badger Sotar airbrush, and it's really cool looking, and gets good reviews.  One thing that I don't understand is the pricing.  I noted that Spraygunners sells it for $90, while Coast Airbrush, where I've purchased most of my airbrushes, sells what appears to be the same airbrush, for $306, over 3 times the price!  What's up with that?

I don’t know, another reason to buy it!! Lol. Thank you for the compliment on that tank btw. It only lasted a few months before he wrecked the bike. I had to paint another just like the first one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Curt B said:

I just looked up the Badger Sotar airbrush, and it's really cool looking, and gets good reviews.  One thing that I don't understand is the pricing.  I noted that Spraygunners sells it for $90, while Coast Airbrush, where I've purchased most of my airbrushes, sells what appears to be the same airbrush, for $306, over 3 times the price!  What's up with that?

 

Crazy huh? the price at Amazon varies dramatically also. You can also check usaairbrushsupply.com where it is currently $117 . The service at spray gunner is exceptional, so with the best price and very fast shipping, You can not miss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to semi-hijack this thread, but I wonder if any of you Badger Sotar owners can answer a question for me.  I notice that that airbrush has an unusual plastic knob on the end of the needle.  I think it's great as an identifier for needle size, however, I've always been told that for a dirty needle, remove the tip and nozzle and pull the needle through the front, in order to prevent contaminating the body of the airbrush.  In this airbrush, it isn't possible to remove it that way, so you risk that contamination,  However, since they built the brush that way, I presume Badger doesn't see that as an issue.  Thoughts on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2019 at 5:02 PM, compressorman said:

 

You are so right, perhaps I phrased my initial question badly. It should have been 'I want another ab, would this work?' 🙂  My Eclipse is pretty sweet and certainly capable of more than I am. I painted this for a customer long ago with a Passche VL with a gigantic medium tip (not sure of the actual size) and I find my Eclipse much more capable than the VL, al least for detail.

 

tank2.jpg

 

See how far you get painting the eyes of a Games Workshop Space Marine with it and let me know how you get along

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/28/2019 at 11:59 AM, compressorman said:

I have a Badger 155 (siphon) that I use for primers and my beloved Iwata HP-CS that I use for everything else. I was wondering if I am really missing out by not having an ultra-fine ab to use occasionally ?  Ihave thought about the H and S infinity but it is in the 'holy cow!' price range.I have also looked at the Badger Sotar fine (only $90} which seems super affordable and gets great reviews.  I do freehand camo and enjoy painting minis and my eclipse has done everything I need it to do. But I have never used a finer brush than the eclipse and wonder what kind of difference it would make?

 

Edit:

I should say that i pretty much just use acrylics, mostly mission models paint. I certainly would not want to buy an ab that would not spray my preferred paint

 

Chris

 

A MAC valve built into an airbrush body such as on the HP-CH can give a dramatic difference, however it really depends on what your idea of detail work is.

I mostly model Games Workshop miniatures, Getting details such as the eyes is something that comes with using one of the more expensive Iwata models, but an HP-CH is a nice cheap way to get some pin point detail work done.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried spraying Mission Model paints through an Iwata Eclipse, Badger Khrome, and Badger Sotar 20/20 all with the .2 mm tips and have found the following to occur. If I am spraying a single color, I have no issues when airbrushing. It is when I need to switch to another color, say the tri-color scheme on Vietnam era Phantoms. I will run some of their thinner through the airbrush to clean out any let over paint from the first color, and then put in the second color, and I get sputtering from the airbrush. If I strip the airbrush and give it a thorough cleaning before spraying the second color, I have no issues. I have both the Khrome and Sotar airbrushes with .3 mm tip/needles (yes, a second second of airbrushes) that I have sprayed Mission Model paints through, and have not had the issue of paint sputtering, after running thinner through it and spraying the second and third coats through them. I also have a Badger Patriot that I use, and have had no issue with spraying Mission Model paints with it. I've only encountered problems spraying Mission Model paints with the very fine tip/needle arrangements (.2 mm).

 

I can spray lacquer/solvent based paints such as Gunze, Tamiya, and Mr. Paint without any issues with the .2 mm tips/needles, just run some lacquer thinner or isopropyl alcohol through it between different paint colors and away I go.

QT

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2019 at 10:14 AM, compressorman said:

I don’t know, another reason to buy it!! Lol. Thank you for the compliment on that tank btw. It only lasted a few months before he wrecked the bike. I had to paint another just like the first one.

 

Well, compressorman, I want you to know that you were the impetus for me contacting Spraygunners.  And Kurt H also got me to consider the Sotar...

 

I just ordered a Badger Sotar 20/20 airbrush, which is now my FIFTH airbrush, thank you very much!  And I haven't even used the third and fourth airbrushes that I recently purchased (a second Iwata and a Harder and Steenbeck).  I couldn't pass up a $90 top of the line airbrush, PLUS, in response to an e-mail that I sent to the Spraygunner guys, which they responded to in a few hours, they gave me a coupon for another 7% off AND free shipping.  I COULD NOT PASS THAT UP!  

 

So if any of you are considering a Sotar, go to the Spraygunners website and pull the trigger!!  WOW!  Thanks, again, to compressorman and Kurt H.

Edited by Curt B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, sorry to have encouraged your bad habit Curt, but admitting that you have a problem is the first step. Glad you enjoyed dealing with spray gunner, their customer service is super D duper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, compressorman said:

Haha, sorry to have encouraged your bad habit Curt, but admitting that you have a problem is the first step. Glad you enjoyed dealing with spray gunner, their customer service is super D duper.

 

Of course I was just joking! LOL  

 

I do think that the Sotar looks pretty fabulous, though, and I'm anxious to try it out.  As I may have mentioned, this will be my third new airbrush within a month or so.  I got an Iwata HP-M2 single action airbrush, and a Harder and Steenbeck Evolution CR Plus, neither of which have I shot any paint through.  I use, for the VAST majority of my painting, the simplest airbrush there is, the Paasche H, and I also have an Iwata HP-C Plus.  I use the Paashe almost all the time, not because I think it gives the best paint job, but really, because it is so easy to clean.  That's my paranoia, being able to clean an airbrush and get every molecule of paint out of it at the end of a paint session, and not have to do the complicated tear down that I think is involved with dual action airbrushes.  So now, with the Sotar, I'll have 3 dual action airbrushes.  I know that I'll still be afraid of using any of them, but the last time I used my Iwata HP-C Plus, I sprayed greatly thinned guns Mr, Color lacquer paint, that was almost like water, and it not only sprayed great, it cleaned up easily.  I've learned, late, that thinning paint to the proper consistency is the key to great airbrushing quality, and easier cleaning.  Frankly, though, despite my new found knowledge about thinned paint, I'll still be scared to put lacquer paint into a brand new airbrush, even if it is relatively inexpensive (like my new Sotar).  

 

I know I will still use my Paasche for things like primer especially when spraying the fabulously self leveling primers like Stynylrez, or the multicolored MIG One Shot, and when spraying gloss and flat clears.  But I'm thinking, again, the heavily thinned Mr. Color lacquers, even better, the MRP Mr. Paint colors that come already thinned to almost water-like consistency that should, hopefully, pass through even the smallest orifices.needles as in the fine Sotar brush, should be okay to use.  Because I really want to start using these tools I've spent a decent amount of money on of late... 

Edited by Curt B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the anxiety about keeping the airbrushes clean.  However, the good news is that it is pretty easy. This video has a lot of good information to get you started:

 

 

 

Edited by Kurt H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Kurt, I'm always interested in hearing/seeing what others do to clean their airbrushes.  I love painting using an airbrush.  Even after years of using an airbrush, the finish you get still seems like magic to me, it really does.  So I love using this tool.  If I could just get over the fear I get using it, I'd be thrilled.  I have a tendency to sweat easily for lots of reasons, during minor  exertion, or when anxious, and typically I'm absolutely soaked after an airbrushing session, for fear of painting errors, but more in concern about the forthcoming cleaning.  I wish I could relax when using the airbrush, and get over the huge anxiety I have when delaying for even a few seconds while in the midst of a session.  Perhaps it's just something I will have to get over after using significantly thinned paint that doesn't require the concern of rocking up the brush if I set it down for 30 seconds...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Harder & Steenbeck Infinity is worth every penny, as far as the cost, if you hunt around a little you should be able to find a used one for a much more reasonable (although still pricey) amount.  I too freehand my camouflage and it does remarkable work with the 0.4mm nozzle for acrylics (the smaller needles do work, but usually you need a lacquer or enamel based paint).  I live in Denver, so the altitude and pressure affect the drying time significantly, I've most recently been using AKAN acrylic paints for a big Flanker project.  The detail work I can do with it is incredible, since the detail work is so fine I do have to keep a q-tip next to me soaked in thinner to remove the buildup of acrylic paint on the end, and while I do have to do this fairly frequently when I do fine detail work its certainly not bothersome.  In short, I would highly recommend the Harder & Steenbeck, they're very sturdy and well-made (good German engineering 🙂) and you can find accessories parts fairly easily.  Hope this helps.

 

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started shooting AK Colors thinned with Mr Thinner with my 20/20 & PS-770. Game changer on the fine lines you can get. Take the crown off the 770, and you can draw pencil lines. Just don’t drink coffee before hand. The lines are so fine you will leave waves in your airbrushing. 

 

Cheers

Collin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Iwata Revolution for all my work. Its a 0.5 mm nozzle. Recently I found out that for fine work like mottle on Luftwaffe aircraft, I need a fine airbrush. 

 

I did some shopping around and Iwata for super fine work are out of budget. However, Mr. Hobby has a 0.18mm air brush and it has great reviews. So I m looking to buy it soon. 

 

http://www.mr-hobby.com/en/itemDetail.php?iId=16

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, all, and hopefully not hijacking this thread yet again...  I just got my brand new Badger Sotar 20/20 airbrush today, and I could not resist playing with it, albeit with just some colored water. I wanted to see what the comparison is between the Sotar and my also brand new Harder and Steenbeck Evolution.  Both with the same fine needles, so I thought this was a valid comparison of feel.  

 

At first glance, I have to say that the Sotar is...well...not exactly up to the standard that I thought it would be.  The finish on the brush exterior is nothing like that found on either an Iwata or a Harder and Steenbeck.  Then again, what I paid for it is about half of either of those other brushes, and perhaps that is one of the areas where Badger can afford to sell these airbrushes for the discount that they do, in comparison to those other 2 brands.  Additionally, at first 'feel', both in movement of the needle, and in depressing the air valve, does not have the same type of smooth feel of either of my Iwata or H&S brushes (I have to say, however, that NONE of these 3 brushes have what I would call a 'silky' feel in any of the air or needle motion).  Again, perhaps the reason for the disparity in prices.  And lastly, the area of most significance, is the paint flow.  Now, I fully admit my newbie status when it comes to using a fine detail airbrush, and I'm certain that long hours of practice would go a huge way toward being able to make perfect fine lines and curves, but again, the smoothness of the triggers for both paint and air, and the general overall 'feel' of the H&S compared to the Sotar, give the nod, in my neophyte hands, firmly to the H&S.  I hate to say that I'm disappointed in the Sotar, since so many people, and experienced, expert people, say that the Sotar is a great brush.  So I will have to say that my first experience with the Sotar was less than overwhelming, but I also have to say that perhaps with longer time in my hands, the Sotar may turn out to  be the brush I was hoping for.  

 

Time will tell...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...