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Kinetic Su-33 Bort 80


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Finally started on the Kinetic Su-33 that I picked up from Zactoman a few months ago.    To go along with the kit, I also got the Eduard PE cockpit and interior detail set, the MRP exterior colors and the Advanced/AMIgo model resin exhaust cans. 

 

Sorry for the giant post.  It's mostly me complaining... so feel free to skip past all of that. 

 

I love the detail on this kit, but I can already see that this is gonna be one of those love-hate builds.  Aside from the abysmal instructions that Kinetic provides (yes, even the "corrected" .pdf version) I did run into a few relatively minor issues with the kit.  Thank's for the extra ejection seat sprue, Kinetic, I ended up needing it because you guys left out the pull-to-eject piece from the instructions.  I'll take equal responsibility here because I should have noticed this.

 

I ran  into a few minor issues with the Eduard cockpit, but those were more head scratches related to trying to understand some of the logic behind Eduard's decision making... and not issues with parts fit.  

 

No issues with the cockpit from Kinetic's side.  Everything fit well, and Eduard's panels went on without a hitch.  Would have been nice if Eduard got the color right, but not a huge deal as I was able to fill some of the color with one that was closer to what I see in photos.  I think on Eduard's part, it may make more sense to provide those parts (or at least an option) as bare PE with a decal for the details.  That way, you can paint it whatever color you like, and add the decal over top.  Is that a crazy idea?  From what I've read, they seem to get the cockpit tone wrong quite frequently. 

 

I like Eduard's touch with the tiny metal panels that were added to the ejection seat.  However, I did not like some of Eduard's decisions.  Why did they choose to omit the canvas piece (not sure what its called) that sits on the seat?  We've got all of the belts... but not that piece (which is technically part of the harness)... but then we have more PE replacements for parts that Kinetic already provides in PE.  What gives, Eduard?   I did scratch-build that canvas piece out of foil, and it probably looks more realistic than it would in pre-painted PE, but I would imagine there are plenty of people out there that would prefer that piece come in PE with the rest of the cockpit details. 

 

Now, on to nitpick Kinetic.  The PE mesh for the intake FOD grille... brilliant!  It's thin!  It's an actual mesh!  It looks great on the fret!  And.... it's got mistakes and it doesn't fit!  The solution here is to cut off the "ears" that you fold down, and to install it backwards (I'll give more details on this after I actually assemble these parts).   If you look at images of the real thing, there is no added piece ahead of the mesh. I figure if I install it backwards, nobody will be able to see the extra strip of material.   Forget installing it in the UP position as the real deal has ribs on the underside.  They could have just as easily printed it flat (without the fold down ears) and added pieces to build the ribs so that it would look good in the UP position.  

 

No issues with the mesh pieces that go on the outsides of the intakes.  I know some have reported fit issues with these, but mine fit perfectly.  I did have an issue with the tunnels, but I guess I got spoiled with GWH's implementation (on the Su-35) as I feel they fit far better. Some careful filling and sanding and all good.  I've got the inside of the intakes all painted and lightly weathered. 

 

Tonight I'm going to assemble the intakes, gearwells (already painted these), cockpit tub and glue the fuselage together.   I'm surprised at how much I was able to get done since starting this project a week ago. 

 

Here are some terrible photos taken with my phone. 

 

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Looking good. I've been trying to finish up my Su-33 for months now. Same Bort, used the same paints except for the light grey. That color should be a light blue-grey. MRPs color is too warm. I used AKANs version which is a spot on match and thinned right, sprays on beautifully. I had the same problem with Eduard's inside FOD grill. I ended up cutting back parts of the tabs that bent down and I managed to get them to fit. I used Dream Models instrument panel PE. Their colors are very close to the real thing, much more so than Eduard's. Have never been able to understand why Eduard can't get cockpit colors right. The only problem with Dream Models set is that the side panels are pretty much fictional. I used them anyway. I also used aftermarket exhaust, I think the same as yours. They really look nice all painted up.

I had lots of problems with the kit. It was one of the earlier kits with many molding issues. That plus my own predilection for messing things up has made it a difficult build for me. I am eagerly looking forward to your build so I can see how it should be done :thumbsup:.

Hit me up with any questions you have, I'll answer them the best I can assuming I can remember what I did. I've been working on this thing a LONG time.

 

Cheers,

 

Yet another Mark

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Mstor,  which MRP light gray did you try?   There seems to be a few that are labeled "Su-33".    I got MRP 198 and 201 because I was not sure which one was correct and it seems 198 is a close match for the inside of the intakes (maybe a bit on the light side, but nice after a wash) while 201 was more a light blue (almost the same as 297 for the Su-35) and seems like a good match for the underside of the aircraft. 

 

I really cant tell with any degree of certainty what the actual color is from my reference shots.  It doesn't look as blue as the light blue on Migs, and it looks more gray than what I see on Su-27s and Su-35s, but that could just be the pictures.  I'm just gonna stick with this MRP-201 for the underside... good enough for me.  

 

Did you use these for reference too? 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/photo/viewcat_cid_104.html

 

 

Here is some more progress.  I mounted the FOD grills backwards from what the instructions say. I also completely removed the tabs because they really are not needed and just get in the way and cause fit issues. I wish I knew this before bending them per the instructions because I ended up damaging them when I decided to take a step back and remove the tabs.  The damage is not noticeable, so I'm signing off on it and moving on. 

 

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Here is the real thing.  You can see why I chose to install the FOD grills backwards.   You can also see that I painted the bare metal edge too thick, but I'm gonna go with Bob Ross here and call it a happy little accident. 

DSC07826.JPG

 

 

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Build tip for anybody following along.   Sand the back of these two pieces before gluing for a better fit.  You can barely see them once its built, but the top edge is prominent and thinning the back and feathering towards the top helps it sit more flush.  Note the position you see in the below picture as there really are no alignment marks... and the manual is no help at all.  It took about an hour of dry fitting to figure out how to line them up.  

 

20191009-113848.jpg

 

Here is another shot (after a bit of priming).  Without sanding, there would be a visible gap where the upper side panel meets the top piece of the fuselage.  I suppose you can sand further and get a totally flush fit, but I didnt bother going that far.  

 

20191009-131932.jpg

 

 

...now I'm gonna go mount and detail the gear wells and work on putting the fuse halves together.  

 

 

 

Edited by BaconRaygun
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Mstor,  which MRP light gray did you try?   There seems to be a few that are labeled "Su-33".    I got MRP 198 and 201 because I was not sure which one was correct and it seems 198 is a close match for the inside of the intakes (maybe a bit on the light side, but nice after a wash) while 201 was more a light blue (almost the same as 297 for the Su-35) and seems like a good match for the underside of the aircraft. 

 

I really cant tell with any degree of certainty what the actual color is from my reference shots.  It doesn't look as blue as the light blue on Migs, and it looks more gray than what I see on Su-27s and Su-35s, but that could just be the pictures.  I'm just gonna stick with this MRP-201 for the underside... good enough for me.  

 

Did you use these for reference too? 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/photo/viewcat_cid_104.html

 

 

 

 

Hi,

The MRP colors for the current Su-33 scheme are 199, 200, and 201. 196, 197 and 198 are for an earlier Su-33/27 scheme. 201 is MRP's light grey for the camo and is, to me, way too warm a grey. Here is a photo of an AKAN paint sample laid on an actual Su-33. The paint number is 63163 :

1379592879_DSC08962

It is a very close match and is a light blue grey. This is what I used instead of MRP 201. I used those photos you linked to and others. Some photos do appear to show the grey as a warmer grey. What can I say, lighting, processing, weathering? Here is a link to the AKAN set of current Su-33 colors (solvent based lacquer version):

http://shop.akan.ru/en/46xxx-series/46326.html

Linden Hill sells AKAN paints in the US.

As far is the interior grey, I think I just used a more neutral light grey that I had that looked close.

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I'll have to give those AKAN paints a try on my next build. 

 

Care to share any other reference shots you have?  

 

The ones you found are about the best of Bort 80 Red. I have a few hundred more pics of various Su-33s that I grabbed from around the Internet. Unfortunately, I got in trouble with Flickr for posting copyrighted material and linking back to it, so I have no easy way of sharing. I found most of the pics by just Googling Su-33 and then going to the images link that comes up. You just have to hunt and peck around.

 

As far as AKAN paints, get the lacquer/solvent based paints. They make a water based lacquer that some have reported has problems adhering. I use the water based for brush touch-ups. It nice having a lacquer and water based brushable with the exact same color. I thin the lacquer based with Mr Color Leveling Thinner. The bottles the paint comes in are small but the paint is incredibly dense with pigments and covers amazingly well. Sprays to a smooth satin finish.

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More progress from this weekend... and more love and hate for this kit.   The picture of the history of this here kit is beginning to become clearer as I dig deeper into this thing.   I guess I can now see why "Aviationart" was not happy with the molds (or whatever the story is) and Kinetic so boldly bought them up and released it as is.  

 

Glued in the cockpit tub and panel, and added 25g of bird shot directly behind the forward gearwell. These steps required a bit of dry-fitting in order to align the tub and panel, and make sure my ballast did not interfere with assembly.  Here is where the love and hate come in.  The fit of the fuse halves was perfect in some areas, and hell in others.  The seam at the nose was the biggest pain.  I had to slowly close it over the course of the whole weekend and finally polish it off with some strips of styrene.  There seems to have been some interference from the cockpit tub, but after sanding and re-fitting it 12 times, it wasn't getting better, so I just went with it.   I'm starting to think that there was no interference but rather a lack of relief once the forward gear-well and cockpit tub were installed.  Without them, I was able to easily manipulate the fuselage halves to fit, but once they were in.... well, you get the point. 

 

The nose gave me some issues too.   Despite my best efforts, I was no able to get it to fit without a step.  Surprisingly, I did not need any putty as I had no gap... just several steps.  Not a big deal, but I'm not looking forward to re-scribing some of these details. 

 

Here are some more terrible photos. 

 

This is after (a lot of) sanding and a bit of re-scribing.  I'll need a drop of putty to finish off the last bit of that fuse seam.  

10132019-6.jpg

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The rear seam was spot on, but what I would describe as a questionable engineering choice.  The issue is, that seam needs to be sanded flush and filled (as it is absent on the real thing).  Sanding and filling will require one to put some work into the vertical stabilizers... as they will protrude past the sides after sanding.  This could have been avoided if the seam was instead placed along the upper ridge and hidden beneath the vertical stabilizers.  I suppose the actual issue is that the top half of the fuse is too wide in the rear when compared to the lower half... but the seam running under the vertical stabs would have still been a smarter solution (the way it is on the GWH flanker).  I'll need to re-scribe a bit of detail here too. 

10132019-5.jpg

 

Bit of filling will be needed in the back too, but nothing crazy. I filled this with a strip of styrene and will finish it off with some milliput later.  Also, behold the sharp details of these Amigo resin exhaust cans. 

 

Build tip: If you are using these resin exhausts, you will need to completely remove the two rear ribs (out of three) from inside the fuselage.  Also, sand off the ridge that runs along the inside of the top half (it's only present on one half). 

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...starting to look like a flanker! 

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Gear-wells are pretty much done...just need a few more details.

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And lastly, the [almost finished] cockpit. Just need to install the seat, do a little bit more weathering and install the HUD and windshield. 

10132019-8.jpg

 

 

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Looking real good. I had numerous problems with this kit too. The engine nacelles fit was a real pain. Don't know if it was something I did or if it was the kit. Probably both. Right now I am struggling with the flaps and slats. They just don't want to fit in a position that the actual aircraft displays. Plus I keep knocking them off. I'm leaving the parts I have knocked off more than once till later. Its just a lot of little things that add up to a lot of frustration for me and hence I am more or less stalled for lack of will to press forward. I'll get it finished one way or another. It IS starting to really look pretty good as it nears completion. It'll be one of those three footers, i.e. won't bear close scrutiny. :dontknow:

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I dont think it's you.... I think there is just an issue with the nacelles.  I keep coming back to them, dry fitting and sanding and doing more dry fitting and honestly I don't think there is a way to make them just drop in, not without removing at least a millimeter of material somewhere.   I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to install them yet, but there will be some clamping involved. 

 

I think maybe it would have been easier to install them before joining the fuselage halves.  I did not go with that because I wanted to finish up the gearwells without the nacelles getting in the way, but now I'm thinking maybe it would have been easier to just install them and deal with it. 

 

Have you noticed the apparent errors in the gearwells?  The "scallop" for the wheel goes too deep (well past the rear wall), and also starts about 1mm forward of the opening. 

 

Another thing I noticed is the chines (dont know what else to call them) on the tail spike are not flat but pointed upward.   I'm going to try to bend them into place after applying heat with a blow dryer before thinning them out a bit. 

 

I did also find a few areas with missing detail.  I don't know if they were short shots, or just errors in the molds.  Not really worried about them because they will be hidden and/or partially covered.   But, I will say that I like their placement of mold seams. The ones that needed to be removed were easily removed without damaging any surrounding detail.  That's something that I cant really say about the GWH flanker (even though I think their approach was overall pretty good). 

 

Man, I'm glad I got Eduard's cockpit detail set.  It came with all of those little hatches and details around the nose... so I'm not going to have to re-scribe much!  I just noticed this last night while looking things over.  

 

Edited by BaconRaygun
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I dont think it's you.... I think there is just an issue with the nacelles.  I keep coming back to them, dry fitting and sanding and doing more dry fitting and honestly I don't think there is a way to make them just drop in, not without removing at least a millimeter of material somewhere.   I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to install them yet, but there will be some clamping involved. 

 

I think maybe it would have been easier to install them before joining the fuselage halves.  I did not go with that because I wanted to finish up the gearwells without the nacelles getting in the way, but now I'm thinking maybe it would have been easier to just install them and deal with it. 

 

 

Yea, I had the same thought, after the fact, about installing them before joining the fuselage halves. Don't know if it would have made a difference, but I should have tried it out. I ended up just getting it as best I could and then using putty to smooth things over. Its not too noticeable, being on the bottom and all, but I'm still not happy with it.

 

 

Have you noticed the apparent errors in the gearwells?  The "scallop" for the wheel goes too deep (well past the rear wall), and also starts about 1mm forward of the opening. 

 

Yes, looking down the air intake they should barely stick out. Oh well...

 

 

Another thing I noticed is the chines (dont know what else to call them) on the tail spike are not flat but pointed upward.   I'm going to try to bend them into place after applying heat with a blow dryer before thinning them out a bit. 

 

Not sure what you are referring to, but if you mean the flat areas to either side of the tail boom, mine look OK.

 

 

Man, I'm glad I got Eduard's cockpit detail set.  It came with all of those little hatches and details around the nose... so I'm not going to have to re-scribe much!  I just noticed this last night while looking things over.  

 

I got the Eduard set too, just didn't use the actual instrument panels. Used the Dream Models ones as they are the right color. Otherwise, a lot of handy stuff in that set. I don't know if you noticed, but the rear platform of the cockpit, behind the seat has the wrong details. Those round raised areas are only present on some of the prototype airframes. Plus the raised ridge behind the seat should have a flattened top not the curved one used in the kit. The curved one is an Su-27 feature.  The Eduard set has the correct rear cockpit panel (except for the rounded part that is just behind the seat and is supposed to be bent upwards). Here's a pic of the Dream Models set. It's only problem is that the side panels are mostly fictional. I used them anyway.

dream_48022_parts.jpg

Edited by Mstor
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Yes, the flat areas on either side of the boom.  Mine are warped.  I thought maybe it was a screw up on my part, but looking at them more closely I can see that they are just a bit warped.  Not a big deal as I'm sure I'll be able to fix them. 

 

I did not notice the issues with the rear cockpit... mainly because I do not have any photos of the rear cockpit/bulkhead and have given up looking for them.  In fact all of the painting I did of the rear bulkhead was purely speculative and more than likely 100% fictional.    I'm past that at this point and chose to not use the Eduard part because, well, I was not sure if the circles needed to be there and If they were I did not have the needed tools to reproduce them, or the fine raised rivets. I may still use the hooks from the Eduard kit, though.  It's OK, honestly you can barely even see those details, even with the canopy open, so I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. 

 

FWIW, despite the issues with the kit, it is coming together very nicely.  I think the time I'm going to spend on details such as the exhaust cans/engines, landing gear, tail hook, all of the details around the folding wings (I'm building it dirty), and the actual pain job will keep the attention away from any of the small deficiencies one may still be able to notice once its all finished.  

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It does build up to an impressive model and I love the blue on blue camo. I just need to get off my a&* and get back to it. Looking forward to more pics of your build, its looking real good.

 

P.S. censors are messing with my post :explode:

Edited by Mstor
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I got to dry-fitting the slats and flaps last night and I see what you mean.    I didn't really have any problems with the slats, but the flaps need a bit of work.   The upper segment seems to be the issue.  The wing itself will need a bit of material removed to have that piece fit in correctly, and the flap-tracks will need a bit of material added so the lower segment sits correctly. 

 

...oh ya, and the holes in the side of the inner lower segment are incorrect.  There should be three of them. That's gonna be a pain to fix because of the little ridge along the outside.   These could be ignored if building it wings down, but with the wings folded, that detail will stand out. 

 

Also dry fitted and adjusted the vertical stabs.   There are a few small sink marks on the tail. I think I'm not gonna bother filling them but instead just flatten them out a bit without sanding through the panel lines... and then just go over the panel lines and rivets to make sure they are sharp. 

 

I'm going to mount the nacelles/intakes this weekend and see what happens. 

 

 

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I have the same sink marks on the tail. Didn't really notice them until I had it painted. Needless to say, I left them. They were supposed to be eliminated in the most recent release of the kit.

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Alright, more fun.  

 

So, the nacelles actually went on a lot easier than I was anticipating.   I attached them in two steps.  I started at the rear, applying extra thin cement around the circumference and corners after snapping the nacelle into place and clamping with my fingers.  Then I held them down as tightly as I could for about 15 min and then let the glue fully cure over night.  The next morning the rest glued together pretty easily. 

 

Thankfully, only a minimal amount of putty and re-scribing will be necessary.  I will post progress shots later, once I finish the putty and re-scribing. 

 

Now, the bad news.  Going over my reference shots, I'm really not thrilled about the wing inserts (for folded wings).  I decided that I'm going to hack them up a bit and replace some of the details... particularly the rear portion, from the rearmost "joint" to the upper slotted flap section.  The flat part with the hole with rivets around it should actually sit to the inside of the outer portion of the upper flap section.  I know that sounds incredibly confusing. I will explain this in far more detail (with pictures included) after I do the deed.  

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Those are some great photos, Nazar, thank you for sharing them.   Your array of photos from every conceivable angle has been, and will continue to be very helpful.   How did you get the opportunity to get so up close and personal with this bird?  I haven't been up close to a flanker since I was a little kid.  

 

 

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Those are some great photos, Nazar, thank you for sharing them.   Your array of photos from every conceivable angle has been, and will continue to be very helpful.   How did you get the opportunity to get so up close and personal with this bird?  I haven't been up close to a flanker since I was a little kid.  

 

 

 

I have to agree. I couldn't have done the kit without the series of pics of Bort 80 Red without those photos. They were/are invaluable.

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Those are some great photos, Nazar, thank you for sharing them.   Your array of photos from every conceivable angle has been, and will continue to be very helpful.   How did you get the opportunity to get so up close and personal with this bird?  I haven't been up close to a flanker since I was a little kid.  

 

 

I was born there. My father is a sea pilot, though he flew in reconnaissance on the Tu-16, but he also flew with deck pilots. Now I go to the garrisons, take photographs of aircraft. A month ago, I was in Severomorsk again ...

 

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IMG1156-681571933359.jpg

 

my father is on the left in the photo, 1997 Severomorsk-3

 

cp3cM06OPU01571933577.jpg

Edited by Nazar
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That's pretty cool!   I was born there too (Novosibirsk) and I got to hang around the factory when I was a kid because my grandma and great aunt (an engineer and a chemist) worked there and would bring me with them.   There's a black and white picture of me inside the intake of an Su-24M that's in some phase of construction... somewhere.  I wish I was old enough to appreciate how damn lucky I was. 

 

Question about the first photo.  What are those tripod structures?  Hydraulic airframe jacks?  

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That's pretty cool!   I was born there too (Novosibirsk) and I got to hang around the factory when I was a kid because my grandma and great aunt (an engineer and a chemist) worked there and would bring me with them.   There's a black and white picture of me inside the intake of an Su-24M that's in some phase of construction... somewhere.  I wish I was old enough to appreciate how damn lucky I was. 

 

Question about the first photo.  What are those tripod structures?  Hydraulic airframe jacks?  

No, I was born a little out of place. From Novosibirsk to Severomorsk, approximately 3000 kilometers. I worked on the Su-24M / MR in the 90s.
Yes, hydraulic lifts .

 

IMG74561571938032.jpg

Edited by Nazar
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There's a black and white picture of me inside the intake of an Su-24M that's in some phase of construction... somewhere. 

 

Wow, that's something worth sharing, Ray! Ever since I engaged the Trumpy 1/48 Su-24 kit + Komplekt Zip correction sets for it, there's this thing about the inner intakes I just could not fathom. Not even could I figure out the correct geometry inside of the suckers by following the duct present on each of the main gear wheel wells. :hmmm:

Cheers,

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Wow, that's something worth sharing, Ray! Ever since I engaged the Trumpy 1/48 Su-24 kit + Komplekt Zip correction sets for it, there's this thing about the inner intakes I just could not fathom. Not even could I figure out the correct geometry inside of the suckers by following the duct present on each of the main gear wheel wells. :hmmm:

Cheers,

The Zip kit is not bad, but far from ideal. A normal set will come soon, with such nozzles ..

12708407121571941012.jpg

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No, I was born a little out of place. From Novosibirsk to Severomorsk, approximately 3000 kilometers. I worked on the Su-24M / MR in the 90s.
Yes, hydraulic lifts .

 

 

 

 

My apologies, I think some things are getting lost in translation.   I meant I was born in Russia, like you.  I did not notice your location and I see now that you live there.   Yes, Novosibirsk is quite some distance from Severomorsk.  I believe my stepfather was stationed in Severomorsk when he served in the soviet military back in the 1960s (he is also from Saint-Petersburg).   

 

@Hubbie Marsten

I would love to share those photographs.  Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen.  They are buried somewhere in my grandmothers belongings, and she is quite old now and not mobile enough to actually locate them.   I have asked her a few times over the years to send them over, but the photos she has sent have not contained anything from inside the Chkalov aircraft factory.   There were all sorts of photos that would probably be appreciated.  Maybe some day we will actually find them. 

 

I do remember how I got inside that intake though!  We were walking through the factory to the computer lab so that I can see the large (blueprint?) printer in action.  On the way, we walked past an Su-24M with several men working on it.   I was excited and wanted to see what they were doing, but she would not let me get any closer.  Then, one of the men noticed my excitement and said it was OK and gave me a tour of sorts.   At some point, he lifted me into an opening on the bottom and I crawled inside, and stuck my head out of the front... and my grandmother snapped a picture.   I'm actually surprised that I remember this so well, since it was over 30 years ago. 

 

 

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