habu2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 7 hours ago, 11bee said: Cute but does it serve any tactical purpose? It’s not all about fooling the Mk.1 eyeball. Some sensors (being intentionally vague here) use contrasting edges (light/dark) to lock on to. A pattern with numerous small contrast edges could potentially make an accurate lock on target more difficult if not impossible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, habu2 said: It’s not all about fooling the Mk.1 eyeball. Some sensors (being intentionally vague here) use contrasting edges (light/dark) to lock on to. A pattern with numerous small contrast edges could potentially make an accurate lock on target more difficult if not impossible. Indeed. With digital camo, the general outer edges might have high contrast, but all the inner detail that clearly identifies a subject would be very hard to lock on to. With those extreme digital camos, even my Mk.1 eyeball has difficulty doing so. Another example is the facial masks and paint that confuses facial recognition software. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Mstor said: Another example is the facial masks and paint that confuses facial recognition software. Pioneered by Tammy Faye Baker. 😎 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, habu2 said: Pioneered by Tammy Faye Baker. 😎 Bwahahaha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun21 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) On 11/15/2019 at 2:34 PM, 11bee said: I believe the US did some experimental stuff in WW2 to address this (at least from a frontal perspective). They used lights within engine cowlings and leading edges to eliminate the aircraft’s silhouette against the sky. By all accounts, it was extremely effective but was scrapped due to being too difficult to implement. 11bee, That was Project Yahoody, it was basically known as sympathetic illumination. It was done on a Avenger with lights in the leading edges of the wings and engine cowling. A, for want of a better word, light meter was aimed backwards at the tail of the a/c and read the light intensity behind the aircraft and the forward lights were adjusted to match the background light rendering the aircraft somewhat invisible. The main problem was that if you were 15 - 20 degrees off the line of flight you could see the aircraft plainly. A tid bit from my vault of trivial knowledge. Cheers Itch Edited November 18, 2019 by Cajun21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Cajun21 said: 11bee, That was Project Yahoody, it was basically known as sympathetic illumination. It was done on a Avenger with lights in the leading edges of the wings and engine cowling. A, for want of a better word, light meter was aimed backwards at the tail of the a/c and read the light intensity behind the aircraft and the forward lights were adjusted to match the background light rendering the aircraft somewhat invisible. The main problem was that if you were 15 - 20 degrees off the line of flight you could see the aircraft plainly. A tid bit from my vault of trivial knowledge. Cheers Itch Thanks for the details, you are absolutely correct. On a related note, I thought I read that the AF experimented with adding lights inside jet intakes to minimize their darkness, for the same reasons as above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) On 11/9/2019 at 1:31 PM, Vince Maddux said: Did anyone notice the refueling doors open in the second B-52 photo? Yeah! I will have to get the crew chief to check that out when I get back to Guam. Fuel burn was a little off on this trip. Replace that amber bulb on the overhead panel. It wouldn't go out no matter how many times I flipped the breaker! Edited November 20, 2019 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Found this the other night and listened to it at the bench: Found it interesting. I don't remember this episode Saturday mornings as a kid.... Happy modeling all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Very interesting blog about visual stealth. Many more details on Project Yehudi and on later developments. If anyone has a picture of an F-4 in the Compass Ghost scheme mentioned, I'd love to see it BTW. Worth checking out... https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2009/09/weekend-wings-34-stealth-aircraft-old.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 11bee, I think Wolfpak released an F-4C decal in some sort of gray scheme with yehudi lights. Aha! It was Thanks 12-17. Edited December 19, 2019 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonwinn Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Nice and effective camo pictures. What was the SAM ratio as far as SEA camo to basic grey airframes? Just curious.- jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, jonwinn said: Nice and effective camo pictures. What was the SAM ratio as far as SEA camo to basic grey airframes? Just curious.- jon SAM ratio? Dutch, thanks for that link, that’s a pretty scheme. Loved to see pucks of what those light housings looked like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) SAM loss rate of camo vs un-camo aircraft? Not sure, but it sure eased the pilots' & WSOs' pucker factor somewhat! Edited December 19, 2019 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dutch said: SAM loss rate of camo vs un-camo aircraft? Not sure, but it sure eased the pilots' & WSOs' pucker factor somewhat! As Dutch noted, can’t make a real comparison. By the time the camo arrived, ECM pods and RHAW gear were starting to show up. Tactics were also evolving. Lastly, since the SAM’s were primarily radar-guided, paint color would have no effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Dutch said: 11bee, I think Wolfpak released an F-4C decal in some sort of gray scheme with yehudi lights. Aha! It was Thanks 12-17. Now that is something I would like to see in 1/48 most definitely! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Da SWO Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 On 12/19/2019 at 10:51 AM, jonwinn said: Nice and effective camo pictures. What was the SAM ratio as far as SEA camo to basic grey airframes? Just curious.- jon Most losses were from Triple A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric2020 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Big THANKS to Dutch for pointing out to this F-4C! Anyone have pics of this machine as I have not seen this before Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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