breadneck Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Lately i`ve been reflecting on the amounts of plastic inside a kit box and how much of it actually makes up the kit parts and how much is residual sprue gates to be thrown away. I bet in some kits these values are as high as 50/50 but a more realistic number is maybe 25%? Just for the fun of it i am going to weigh some of my model kits and see what`s up. And no i was not bitten by Greta Thunberg. 10 years from now, will we see model kits with the actual parts only and no sprue gates from environmental requirements? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, breadneck said: model kits with the actual parts only and no sprue gates What are all those control columns, rudder pedals, HUD frames, mass balances, going to be retained and protected in? What will be involved in actions and especially time for quality control at the factory to verify all the parts are in a kit? At this point on the calendar I'm not seeing economical ways to do those. It would be far more efficient to just ban plastic models, after all, there is an entire industry devoted to producing toxic finishing materials which are likewise bad for the future of humanity, think of all the virtue points which could be scored by ending the existential threat plastic models pose to the future of the human race. Edited November 26, 2019 by southwestforests corrected misspelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, southwestforests said: What are all those control columns, rudder pedals, HUD frames, mass balances, going to be retained and protected in? What will be involved in actions and especially time for quality control at the factory to verify all the parts are in a kit? At this point on the calendar I'm not seeing economical ways to do those. It would be far more efficient to just ban plastic models, after all, there is an entire industry devoted to producing toxic finishing materials which are likewise bad for the future of humanity, think of all the virtue points which could be scored by ending the existential threat plastic models pose to the future of the human race. Future of humanity, ban plastic models? IDK about that. Technical aspects, it`s not exactly rocket science packing them in another fashion so don`t really follow you on that lead. One positive aspect would be the parts would be without any attachment points needing to be sanded/cut flush saving some time. Save thy planet ! 😇 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPMSUSA2 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Don't give them any ideas, regardless of how impractical or ridiculous it may sound. Or to put it another way, be careful what you wish for, even in jest. You just might get it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, breadneck said: Future of humanity, ban plastic models? IDK about that. Technical aspects, it`s not exactly rocket science packing them in another fashion so don`t really follow you on that lead. One positive aspect would be the parts would be without any attachment points needing to be sanded/cut flush saving some time. Save thy planet ! 😇 Never underestimate creativity (and greed) of some perverted minds. Take the second popular sport in the world (in terms of people practicing it, not just competing) - table tennis. As simple as it gets, couple of paddles, table, net and celluloid ball, right? Wrong. Paddle: wooden blade and couple of rubbers glued to it with rubber glue which was essentially raw rubber dissolved in some organic gas-like solvent. At some point somebody found out that freshly glued rubber produces more speed and spin. Voila, enter the speed glue (same type of glue, different solvents) age. Few years ago ecological bug had bitten ITTF officials and they banned "volatile substances" effectively killing good old rubber glue, speedy one including. New water based glue is still cursed by many and is more expensive. This also dragged development of new rubbers with "built in glue effect" which are, guess what, 2 to 4 times more expensive than old ones. Now to the balls. Another creative one banned celluloid as a ball material for being "too flammable". Replacement? "Regular" (whatever this could mean) plastic balls which are, again, feel weird and more expensive. Oh, and Chinese are still winning, regardless 🙂 Edited November 26, 2019 by Helmsman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Even considering that a percentage of our plastic in the box is left over and discarded, how does that compare to something as common as single-use plastic tableware? Think of how many millions of sets of that are given out each day (often not even used - I hate it when I get some and don't need, and I try to save to for later, resulting in a large pile of the stuff). Given the declining popularity of our hobby (more specialized audience?), even taking time to consider the impact of plastic models seems silly in relation to the other 99.999% of disposable plastic. I suppose you could keep all out your leftover sprue and melt it into something useful (an example escapes me right now). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 “How DARE you!!!” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Or the hobby goes to 100% 3-D on-demand printing for any kit you want, in the right camouflage colors & pattern that you want. What could be simpler? All you have to do is add the decals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Take it to the extreme and think how much would be saved (and destroyed) if your model came complete as one piece, one part, with colors and markings molded in. It would destroy the hobby and turn us all into collectors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 10 hours ago, breadneck said: One positive aspect would be the parts would be without any attachment points needing to be sanded/cut flush saving some time The question remains, how are the parts created having no such thing? Even 3D printed items have a sort-of equivalent which needs to be cleaned up, https://all3dp.com/1/3d-printing-support-structures/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, southwestforests said: The question remains, how are the parts created having no such thing? Even 3D printed items have a sort-of equivalent which needs to be cleaned up, https://all3dp.com/1/3d-printing-support-structures/ Maybe they could clean up the parts at the factory or cast them without any attachment points. Maybe i am i a dreamer but it sure would be neato not having to clean up the parts and these days there isn`t any flash anyway. Shipping weight would be lower as well and maybe the boxes would be too! Just think about how much money you spent paying to ship plastic sprue gates/dimensional weight around the world. Think about that for a second or two and maybe there is some sense in my reasoning afterall? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, breadneck said: Maybe they could clean up the parts at the factory or cast them without any attachment points. ... Shipping weight would be lower and labor/production costs would be much higher. Someone has to pay for sprue removal/cleanup.... You can't cast parts without some way to get the material into the mold. That's why there are sprues, they are the conduit for the liquified styrene to be injected under pressure into the mold. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Edited November 26, 2019 by habu2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, habu2 said: and labor/production costs would be much higher. Someone has to pay for sprue removal/cleanup.... You can't cast parts without some way to get the material into the mold. That's why there are sprues, they are the conduit for the liquified styrene to be injected under pressure into the mold. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Labour would not be much higher. I think i would accept an increase of $1-2 for clean parts. If they change their production line technology it will be just as slick as it is today. Some companies offer prepainted canopies, why not offer precut parts? Getting the styrene into the mold has nothing to do with this. The sprue gates remain at the factory to be reused. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 ...Or you could simply place the unused/leftover plastic from your recently completed kit into your normal plastic recycling bin before cracking open another kit to start (rinse and repeat). I've been doing that for years now and I doubt I'm alone. Also...and I am no plastic expert so I'm sure someone here can educate us... but I thought you couldn't use the same plastic over and over again without removing certain bonding agents or such first to avoid getting brittle or otherwise contaminated plastic. So its not as simple as cleaning the parts off at the factory and throwing the sprue and clippings back into the mix. Either way the cost per kit to do all this would be significantly more then a few bucks. Considering I don't mind clipping and cleaning parts, doing my own recycling, and keeping my modeling within my already tight budget, I'll opt to keep things as is. Happy modeling! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I don’t think you are thinking this through. Some kits have literally hundreds of parts. Many parts have more than one sprue gate per part. Cutting and trimming that many parts will add a lot more than a couple of dollars to the cost of the kit. At $1-$2 per kit you’re talking a penny a part - or less. Would you take that job for that little money? Now you have a couple hundred loose parts rattling around in a box. How do you identify them? How do you write the instructions? No more part A18, no more tree A with the number 18 molded beside it. And how can you tell if a part is missing? Can’t just look for an empty spot on the sprue tree. Not to mention damage to the loose parts rattling around during shipping. I suppose you could pay for the hundreds of individual parts to be individually bagged. That would add even more to the cost of the kit, and now you have hundreds of plastics bags left over. What do you do with them? Often times it is easier to paint small parts while still on the sprue. Can’t do that any more. I don’t think you are thinking this through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 12 hours ago, habu2 said: Take it to the extreme and think how much would be saved (and destroyed) if your model came complete as one piece, one part, with colors and markings molded in. It would destroy the hobby and turn us all into collectors. I thought we already are ... of a sort ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raptor01 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 If everyone could stack their stash as one big vertical tower: what altitude could be reached? Sub-orbital? 🤣 Going to be a secondary market well into the 22nd century!🤣🤣🤣 John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cag_200 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 10 years from now there is 'Green plastic' Your model will fall apart in 20 years and ready for the bin or recycling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, cag_200 said: 10 years from now there is 'Green plastic' Your model will fall apart in 20 years and ready for the bin or recycling. pretty sure our our injected plastic models are made of polystyrene - or are they just styrene? (Not a chemist) https://news.stanford.edu/pr/2015/pr-worms-digest-plastics-092915.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f5guy Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 6:04 AM, afoxbat said: “How DARE you!!!” 🤣 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, f5guy said: 🤣 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9do5DWA_hnI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cag_200 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Plastic for dinner, hahha! Nice reading there. How long will a Tamiya F-14 last? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/27/2019 at 8:15 AM, Raptor01 said: If everyone could stack their stash as one big vertical tower: what altitude could be reached? Sub-orbital? 🤣 Going to be a secondary market well into the 22nd century!🤣🤣🤣 John “Make it so, Number One ( John )! 👍👍👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 10 hours ago, breadneck said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9do5DWA_hnI This is GREAT!! TNX for posting! 😂😂😂/👍👍👍👍👍👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raptor01 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Way better! 🤣 John Edited November 30, 2019 by Raptor01 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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