Specter1075 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Hello all, I've begun work on a 1:48 S-3B from the early/mid 90's. More specifically I'm building VS-21's BuNo 160156 from 1994. Recognizing that the S-3B's started losing their anti-shipping role around that time, I'd like to build one as it would have looked at that time, while they still went sub/ship hunting. For loadout I'm doing a bay full of Mk.46 torpedos and a pair of AGM-84's on the wings. I assume that's all well and good. I bought AeroBonus' Mk.46 torpedos and they provide 5 different marking options. I presume the predominantly blue scheme would be training rounds, but I'm wondering if other different schemes indicated other uses. Perhaps one was for ship-borne launchers or something. Can anyone here clarify which is most appropriate for the S-3B, if any? https://imgur.com/gallery/B5PsGxm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I’ve got that tail in my logbook from VS-21. She was a full Bravo model, not de-ASW’d. In fact none of our tails were. More to follow. Cheers Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Awesome! Thanks Collin! Looking forward to hearing more! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) Go with the second from the bottom paint scheme but make the yellow band a yellow band on top of a slightly wider black band for a live warhead. See this link for ref pics: http://www.seaforces.org/wpnsys/SURFACE/Mk-46-torpedo.htm Bronze/steel were the live ones. Exercise torps had loud colors. Live warshots only seen once in my time at VS-21 (1995 - late 1998). Never loaded in aircraft, AO’s broke one out. Saw and dropped plenty of exercise torps (MK-46/50) into the waters off Barking Sands every Summer. Great fun. Normal bomb bay load was 2 x MK-82 TP slick for Gulf ops when two drop tanks carried. Sure we could carry Harpoon but no warshot in Gulf (although I shot a exercise Harpoon off of Okinawa). We also carried 3 x live CBU-100/FMU-140 ROCKEYE on right wing and drop tank ALWAYS on left wing. I did go loaded out with 4x MK-82 in BB, a TER with 3x 82 and another TER with 2 x MK-83, but that was a BOMBEX to get rid of bombs before we crossed decked over to CV-63. The Hornets in our Airwing were impressed by what we could actually carry. I dropped 2x MK-84’s off the wing parent racks flying around Hawaii once. 84’s on a Viking were a rarity. All our S-3’s were before the ASW demodification. So build your kit with the MAD boom and all the buoy holes. In fact I can still remember reading the message (from N98) in the ready room with my CO and Ops O (laying out the plan to drop the ASW mission from our aircraft) just shaking our heads. It’s funny that I just read the Navy is going to get back into the business of fixed wing ASW from the carrier because the threat is back. Eye Roll. 160156 stops suddenly in my logbook. I’ll look closer in the morning but it might be in the ‘96 timeframe we transferred/swapped out that airframe and flew her back to the states replacing her with healthier aircraft. Cheers Collin Edited December 25, 2019 by Collin Spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 Holy smokes that's good info! Thank you, Sir! One thing I never read was where the aircraft actually was in 1994. If you were in the Gulf at that time, but still in ASW config, was the primary role to look for Iraqi ships or was there still a carrier protection/anti-sub mission? I like the look of the MK-46's and harpoons, but if it's not a realistic loadout, I won't go that route. Why were warshots almost never loaded for MK.46's? Was that something that came about post-Cold War? Were the rockeye variants you used visually any different from USAF rockeyes? Was there a difference between Mk.20s and CBU-100s or is it just a different designator? Was their use unique to the Gulf theater? Hope you don't mind all the questions! I can't imagine a better resource than yourself, so I have to take advantage! 🙂 Thanks again! Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 My logbook shows I flew 67.1 hours in 160156, including my first flight when I arrived in VS-21. Looks like we transferred her after November 1997, she drops out my logbook for the rest of my tour and we were flying a lot so I would have flown all our birds over the remaining year in the Command. Summer of ‘91 is when VS-21 joined CVW-5, but it was the tail end of the Cold War and while we did track subs, no need to carry real torps. I know CVW-5 went to the Gulf in 1995 (I showed up just after they got back). Nothing special so tanking and surface search was the primary mission. We normally carried a few chaff and smoke buoys. Sometimes we would put passive/active buoys in the water and track an EMATT (self dropped buoy-sized/self powered mini sub emulator) or a friendly sub, but the Gulf was not the best water for real good ASW work (very noisy). Off in the Pacific we would practice ASW to maintain proficiency but that’s it. Go go ahead and load up your Viking with torps/Harpoon if you like the look. If a war broke out we would have had at least two real MK-46/50 in our belly to drop. That’s the best thing about our hobby, build it to your liking!! Torps and Harpoon are perfectly fine. If the war went hot against surface threats, we would have loaded up with Harpoons. Hornets could carry them (our A-6’s had already left the Airwing unfortunately after 1996). They caused a ton of drag for the Hornet folks so they would have left them for us with our longer range/endurance. Search the forums here for S-3 weapons. Many more conversations and stories. I’m just one of a few old Viking folks hanging around the boards. Cheers Collin Loading 3 x MK-20 ROCKEYE on a S-3 TER reference shot (bottom of page). http://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cvn71-90/361.htm Below photo shows the three ROCKEYE with protective red covers over the FMU-140 fuse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 Thank you again! I'm pretty stoked that you have personal experience with this aircraft. I hope I can do it justice! I guess that's always the debate: how realistic do you want the presentation to be in terms of loadout. I'll have to decide if I want to go the CBU route, or torps/harpoons. You mentioned that in a hot war, you'd load up on harpoons. Would there be a circumstance where you would carry both torpedos and harpoons? Or would you be sent out with a specific task, be it anti-sub or anti-ship? Given the asymmetric loadout with CBUs/fuel tank you mentioned for the Gulf, would it make sense to have one harpoon with one external tank? Or were harpoons always in pairs? I'll do some more digging here to see what else can be gleamed. Thanks again for the personal input; it's been invaluable! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) S-3’s were very versatile. Harpoon or a TER with bombs/CBU’s with the refueling drop tank wasn’t asymmetrical at all, you just trimmed the aircraft a little differently. A few VS squadrons did fly Harpoon/ARS tank combo: https://nara.getarchive.net/amp/media/an-air-to-air-right-side-view-of-an-air-anti-submarine-squadron-31-vs-31-s-42d5cf. Single our dual Harpoon was perfectly fine on the Viking, up to you to choose what’s most pleasing to your eye. Here is a pic of my squadron mates dropping an exercise Harpoon. http://www.rjlee.org/s3.html This happened soon after I joined the squadron (I have a personal photo of her on deck before she launched on this flight someplace). Your tasking/threat would dictate your loadout and the S-3 could do both missions on a single sortie but that would be non-typical. Normal ops you see drop tanks on a S-3 because we could still do our surface or ASW mission and carry a few torps/bombs in the bomb bay and you got the extra endurance with the drop tanks. Not as “cool” looking but that’s the reality (plus the S-3 was always a recovery tanker). In all my carrier launches from CV-62/63, I can recall only once launching without the Buddy store (ARS) on our left wing. Even during CQ we carried it, the plane didn’t care. Here is a good read on our aircraft and mission written from a crew members (SENSO) POV (a great group of guys). There are a few inaccuracies but it gives you a great idea of the jet and mission. https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-life-and-times-of-an-s-3a-viking-sensor-operator-part-one-it-wasnt-just-a-job-but-an-adventure/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-life-and-times-of-an-s-3a-viking-sensor-operator-part-two-livin-in-the-real-world/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-life-and-times-of-an-s-3a-viking-sensor-operator-part-three-what-goes-up-must-come-down/ Look forward to seeing your build. Cheers Collin Edited December 26, 2019 by Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Thanks again, Collin! I thought I had replied to you earlier but it never left my phone apparently. Sorry for the delay! I've book-marked the links you provided. I'll be out ice fishing tomorrow, so I'll be reading through them then. I look forward to those! I decided that I do like the look of Harpoons and Torpedos enough to use them for my build, but I'll balance out their less-comoness by using just one harpoon and adding the A/A42R-1 pod to the other wing. I ordered a Wolfpack resin one a couple days ago. I'll be sure to let you know when it's done. I'm by no means a professional builder, but I'll do my best! Cheers! Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Good luck with the fish and stay warm. Cheers Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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