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Hammerhead11

P-47D Bubble Top "Oh Johnnie" Color question.

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Hello Prop guys, I'm starting some early research into a new project I will be working on later this year.  Tamyia's 1:48 P-47D bubble top using Decals from Eagle Editions #48105 and the Eduard Big Ed set.  I'm getting stuck on one aspect of the paint job though.  Does anyone know definitively if the wings were Natural aluminum or if they were painted OD/Grey like the rest of the airplane?  I've seen builds with both, and the one image I can find of the plane isn't clear:

republic-p-47-thunderbolt-oh-johnnie-3d-

 

To me this image looks like it could have natural metal wings, but it could also just be the lighting.  I'll be building this plane for a competition, so I want to get as accurate as possible, if anyone has any information they'd be willing to share I would appreciate it.  My google research has turned up nothing.

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

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I did this plane about 12 years ago the starboard wing is natural metal was replaced port wing in OD/NG  there were pics on the internet way back looked for them before I replied can't find any of them

Cheers

Ken

Edited by KenM

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Also note in the photo canopy frame in natural metal, and the landing gear different  colours could be OD NG or natural metal

Cheers

Ken

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16 minutes ago, KenM said:

I did this plane about 12 years ago the starboard wing is natural metal was replaced port wing in OD/NG  there were pics on the internet way back looked for them before I replied can't find any of them

Cheers

Ken

Thanks for the response, I did find an expert from a book talking about the wing replacement, but it faiedl to mention colors and/or which wing(s).  So, would it be safe to assume, that the image I posted has the replaced wing in view (in natural metal) and the wing out of view would be original and OD/Grey?  Do you know if the national insignia would have matched on the Metal wing to the rest of the plane?  

 

Thanks,

Brett

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2 minutes ago, KenM said:

Also note in the photo canopy frame in natural metal, and the landing gear different  colours could be OD NG or natural metal

Cheers

Ken

Awesome, thank you!

Brett

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Ohhhh never seen this T'bolt before. Not saying I have seen all of them, but this one is really interesting with the large ID on the cowl. Maybe I will give it a try one day. Good luck to you!

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44 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Ohhhh never seen this T'bolt before. Not saying I have seen all of them, but this one is really interesting with the large ID on the cowl. Maybe I will give it a try one day. Good luck to you!

The story of the pilot is just as interesting.  One of the last recipients of the Medal of Honor in the US Army Air Force in WWII.  Unfortunately he earned it posthumously.  He had a knack for taking out ground targets and claimed multiple aircraft destroyed on the ground.  I want to try end replicate the picture.  I have some old monogram figures that I will try to modify to resemble Lieutenant Knight and his crew chief.

Brett

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Interesting to note the wavy OD/NG paint demarcation line in the picture and the razor-straight demarcation line in the profile rendition.

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Hence the problem with profile artwork nice but not always correct

Cheers

Ken

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So the next question then, would the wavy pattern continue down along the back of the fuselage like how it is on the cowl?

Brett

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7 minutes ago, Hammerhead11 said:

So the next question then, would the wavy pattern continue down along the back of the fuselage like how it is on the cowl?

Brett

I would suspect it continued down the fuselage, but without a picture it is a best guess situation. from what I can see online, this aircraft is either depicted all straight, or all wavy.

 

All the pictures that I can frind from WWII of P-47's show one or the other as well, although wavy seems to be most common

 

color.jpg

 

p47-belly.jpg

 

 

 

Sean

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26 minutes ago, martin_sam_2000 said:

I would suspect it continued down the fuselage, but without a picture it is a best guess situation. from what I can see online, this aircraft is either depicted all straight, or all wavy.

 

All the pictures that I can frind from WWII of P-47's show one or the other as well, although wavy seems to be most common

 

color.jpg

 

p47-belly.jpg

 

 

 

Sean

Excellent, thanks!  Everyone has been very helpful.

Brett

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Brett, you're gonna be building one really cool P-47!  Make sure you keep us in the loop when you start your build!

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Here's where I show my ignorance of scale-honoring: At one time, that right wing was painted.  What's wrong with painting the model right wing, too?  

 

Sorta' like invasion stripes.  All those airplanes with invasion stripes didn't have them on June 4,1944.

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Bear in mind, "Oh Johnie" is a bubbletop (appears to be a D-25 owing to the H-S prop), and all P-47s after the D-21 were delivered in unpainted natural metal.  So any bubbletop in camo will have been painted in the field (the exception is the XP-47K, the original prototype bubbletop which was converted from a very early razorback D). You really need more photos of the airplane if you want definitive info on what the camo demarcation looked like; photos of factory painted razorbacks aren't really of much use WRT a field-camo'd airplane.

 

P-47s were originally delivered with the landing gear painted olive drab, and the D-25 production still was using the OD landing gear.  Eventually the landing gear were delivered in aluminum paint.  So, looking at the pictures above, the right wing appears to be the replacement, with the wing from a later production model fitted (silver colored gear strut included) and unpainted, while the left wing looks to be the original with the OD strut.  

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11 hours ago, Curt B said:

Brett, you're gonna be building one really cool P-47!  Make sure you keep us in the loop when you start your build!

Thanks curt!

9 hours ago, peter havriluk said:

Here's where I show my ignorance of scale-honoring: At one time, that right wing was painted.  What's wrong with painting the model right wing, too?  

 

Sorta' like invasion stripes.  All those airplanes with invasion stripes didn't have them on June 4,1944.

Well, you’re not wrong.  It’s possible to model this particular aircraft prior to it’s wing replacing incident.  However, and perhaps I wasn’t clear in my initial posting, I’m looking to build my kit as it’s represented in the photo I posted, which I believe was taken after the wing replacement.  I did find the idea of the contrast between the od/gray and the natural metal to be fascinating and was drawn to doing that scheme, just wanted to make sure I was getting as correct as possible.

28 minutes ago, Joe Hegedus said:

Bear in mind, "Oh Johnie" is a bubbletop (appears to be a D-25 owing to the H-S prop), and all P-47s after the D-21 were delivered in unpainted natural metal.  So any bubbletop in camo will have been painted in the field (the exception is the XP-47K, the original prototype bubbletop which was converted from a very early razorback D). You really need more photos of the airplane if you want definitive info on what the camo demarcation looked like; photos of factory painted razorbacks aren't really of much use WRT a field-camo'd airplane.

 

P-47s were originally delivered with the landing gear painted olive drab, and the D-25 production still was using the OD landing gear.  Eventually the landing gear were delivered in aluminum paint.  So, looking at the pictures above, the right wing appears to be the replacement, with the wing from a later production model fitted (silver colored gear strut included) and unpainted, while the left wing looks to be the original with the OD strut.  

That’s a lot of helpful information!  Thank you so much!  Unfortunately this is the only photo I can find of this plane, so its really all I have to go on.  And any written text about this plane is silent regarding its field applied paint scheme.  I did read this this plane was the only one painted in OD/Gray in this squadron, so it was rather unique.

 

Brett

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FWIW, Osprey Combat Aircraft #92, "P-47 Thunderbolt Units of the Twelfth Air Force", has on it's cover a painting of your subject as well as a color profile inside.  While the only photo inside of this airplane is the one you posted above, the profile shows a wavy paint demarcation all the way back, curving up to meet the stabilizer.  Curiously, both the cover painting and the profile show both wings in NMF, and the text implies that both wings were replaced following damage caused by flying through a bomb blast in January, 1945 (evidently, he fragged himself), but doesn't state that outright.  That doesn't change what the photo shows regarding the landing gear color, but it is possible that both wings could be NMF.  While I understand the limitations re. using paintings and profiles as reference, I trust the author of this book to have done his research.  If you are on Facebook, check out the group "Modeling the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt". There are several knowledgeable people there who might have more information.

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2 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said:

FWIW, Osprey Combat Aircraft #92, "P-47 Thunderbolt Units of the Twelfth Air Force", has on it's cover a painting of your subject as well as a color profile inside.  While the only photo inside of this airplane is the one you posted above, the profile shows a wavy paint demarcation all the way back, curving up to meet the stabilizer.  Curiously, both the cover painting and the profile show both wings in NMF, and the text implies that both wings were replaced following damage caused by flying through a bomb blast in January, 1945 (evidently, he fragged himself), but doesn't state that outright.  That doesn't change what the photo shows regarding the landing gear color, but it is possible that both wings could be NMF.  While I understand the limitations re. using paintings and profiles as reference, I trust the author of this book to have done his research.  If you are on Facebook, check out the group "Modeling the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt". There are several knowledgeable people there who might have more information.

I managed to find a copy of the text from the book and you're right it doesn't outright state that both wings were replaced, but merely says "flew through his own bomb blast...necessitating a wing replacement..."  But, like you said, I'm sure the author did his due diligence on his research as well as the artists of the images in the book.  I think then, to replicate the photograph, I will paint the aircraft with both wings in natural metal, the fuselage with OD/Grey with the wavy demarcation from stem to stern. 

 

As a side note, further in the same text from the Osprey book, it appears this this particular air frame was destined for the Brazilian fighter unit that was part of the 350th fighter group but was diverted instead to LT Knights 346th fighter squadron, so it appears that the OD/Gray was factory applied and not field applied.  

 

Thanks again to everyone who as assisted on this!

Brett

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1 hour ago, Hammerhead11 said:

As a side note, further in the same text from the Osprey book, it appears this this particular air frame was destined for the Brazilian fighter unit that was part of the 350th fighter group but was diverted instead to LT Knights 346th fighter squadron, so it appears that the OD/Gray was factory applied and not field applied.  

 

 

I missed that bit; that's interesting.

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Hi Brett,

The Squadron book on the P-47D in the MTO and ETO has a photo of this plane from the left side.

You found out the detail about being a Brazilian P-47D at first then going to Lt. Knight . Goggle Brazilian P-47D and you will find the OD/N. Grey spray lines unless you did already.

To me looks like both wings are natural metal or the sun shines off the OD/N. grey better than I think.

 

 

Rick

Edited by rpeck

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8 hours ago, rpeck said:

Well photo was to large but go here :

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2212644018761839&set=a.2212647288761512&type=3&theater

This is my friends Facebook page. His father flew in the 347th FS.

Rick

Hey Rick, thanks for the additional info, unfortunately the link you supplied isn’t working for me.  But I’ll have to try and track down a copy of that book.

Brett

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