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11bee

2018 Marine Midair Collision

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Interesting discussion, if not dangerously close to political. If I may offer this...The problem isn't non-intellectualism. (which is somewhat a pretty snobby expression to begin with if you ask me. I find typically people that describe themselves as "intellects" are far from being the people that have real workable solutions.) The problem often with "intellects" is they may see how something can be done and maybe even the best way to do it. But they rarely have the insight to see whether or not something SHOULD be done. A PHD isn't a certificate for common sense. And it's not that government is broken per se. It's that the country has been consistently watered down to thinking that government is the answer to their problems. RARELY is that the case. You mentioned Reagan. Maybe he wasn't an "intellect" BUT one thing he understood is that the best way to help a person is to get out of the way until they absolutely need your help. The soft bigotry of low expectations is part of that concept. That is the thing that brought us to the current situation of who we have now. People can't understand the appeal of him. I'll just say the quickest way to get someone to stop listening to your solution is to tell them they aren't smart enough to understand the problem and that you are the only solution.

 

Overall I think tomcat is right. The military has been turned into something WAY beyond a machine for defense. I've seen many lectures by real military leaders, not just the talking brass, talking about the problems with softening of our troops and kids in general There is going to be a serious problem coming if we can't figure out what it is going to take to make good soldiers again. Heck, they have safe spaces...yeah, that kind of attitude isn't destined to fail...

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10 minutes ago, niart17 said:

Interesting discussion, if not dangerously close to political. If I may offer this...The problem isn't non-intellectualism. (which is somewhat a pretty snobby expression to begin with if you ask me. I find typically people that describe themselves as "intellects" are far from being the people that have real workable solutions.) The problem often with "intellects" is they may see how something can be done and maybe even the best way to do it. But they rarely have the insight to see whether or not something SHOULD be done. A PHD isn't a certificate for common sense. And it's not that government is broken per se. It's that the country has been consistently watered down to thinking that government is the answer to their problems. RARELY is that the case. You mentioned Reagan. Maybe he wasn't an "intellect" BUT one thing he understood is that the best way to help a person is to get out of the way until they absolutely need your help. The soft bigotry of low expectations is part of that concept. That is the thing that brought us to the current situation of who we have now. People can't understand the appeal of him. I'll just say the quickest way to get someone to stop listening to your solution is to tell them they aren't smart enough to understand the problem and that you are the only solution.

 

 

I agree. Theres no successful track record, which is what I was alluding to. The solution to someone showing criminal irresponsibility is to give them more responsibility? there is absolutely no reason to think the US government can fix the problems it has, let alone take on more of them. 

 

There was a swede joking about this on F-16.net. that his country took a vote and decided for world peace so they barely needed an air force now. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, niart17 said:

 

Overall I think tomcat is right. The military has been turned into something WAY beyond a machine for defense. I've seen many lectures by real military leaders, not just the talking brass, talking about the problems with softening of our troops and kids in general There is going to be a serious problem coming if we can't figure out what it is going to take to make good soldiers again. Heck, they have safe spaces...yeah, that kind of attitude isn't destined to fail...

 

 

its an increasingly small world. even if we decided to set up an awesome sauce closed sphere, Theres no reason to think that sphere will be allowed to exist in an era of global sized competition. In other words america can become a safe space, but it won't matter in a un-safe space world. 

 

maybe John is right to gripe. Its increasingly a welfare apparatus. like I said the old dinosaurs see it. the objective of killing people and wars is not the objective now. its being a political petri dish to advance social engineering. Its more important that certain identity politics boxes are checked than it is to make sure they're competent. And once that becomes the standard look out. on social media right now there is a female chief getting raked over the coals because she only promotes fellow females. the weeds spread. 

 

If you look at whats happening you'd swear its an enemy plot to subvert the military. 

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14 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

If you look at whats happening you'd swear its an enemy plot to subvert the military. 

Hmmm.....

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1 hour ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 india and china are more than 3.7 billion combined? 

 

 

 

 

No, you're right, I was a bit off... but not by far.  The population of India and China is nearly 3 billion, so almost half of the world's population.  

 

...and I'm not suggesting that cutting our military budget is the answer.  I'm merely stating that I don't believe (nor do I see any evidence to support) that the military budget has anything to do with the midair collision cited in this thread (or any similar event).  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, BaconRaygun said:

 

 

No, you're right, I was a bit off... but not by far.  The population of India and China is nearly 3 billion, so almost half of the world's population.  

 

 

 

its about 2.4 billion, but who's counting? 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, BaconRaygun said:

 

...and I'm not suggesting that cutting our military budget is the answer.  I'm merely stating that I don't believe (nor do I see any evidence to support) that the military budget has anything to do with the midair collision cited in this thread (or any similar event).  

 

 

 

 

I don't think its going anywhere. the latest budget was bipartisanly approved of course which is deeply comical in some cases actually expanded by the folks who are super duper mad at the current commander and chief. you'd think it would be crazy to fund and give such weaponry to a commander and chief who we are convinced is so evil and dangerous and racist and all. but they actually voted to give him even more firepower than orginally requested. luckily one of the big authors of the additional spending un followed him on twitter though (And I'm not making that up) 

 

 

f35.jpg

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1 hour ago, niart17 said:

Interesting discussion, if not dangerously close to political. If I may offer this...The problem isn't non-intellectualism. (which is somewhat a pretty snobby expression to begin with if you ask me. I find typically people that describe themselves as "intellects" are far from being the people that have real workable solutions.) The problem often with "intellects" is they may see how something can be done and maybe even the best way to do it. But they rarely have the insight to see whether or not something SHOULD be done. A PHD isn't a certificate for common sense. And it's not that government is broken per se. It's that the country has been consistently watered down to thinking that government is the answer to their problems. RARELY is that the case. You mentioned Reagan. Maybe he wasn't an "intellect" BUT one thing he understood is that the best way to help a person is to get out of the way until they absolutely need your help. The soft bigotry of low expectations is part of that concept. That is the thing that brought us to the current situation of who we have now. People can't understand the appeal of him. I'll just say the quickest way to get someone to stop listening to your solution is to tell them they aren't smart enough to understand the problem and that you are the only solution.

 

What makes it a snobby expression?  It merely means the practice of hostility towards, and the dismissal of knowledge.  What is snobby about saying the dismissal of academia is dumb?   We would still be living in the stone age if humanity did not strive towards knowledge.   What happened to Galileo is a perfect example of anti-intellectualism.   Here you have this guy who figured something out, and had evidence to support his claim, evidence that anybody with functioning eyes could intemperate... and he was ridiculed and ostracized.   This still happens today, and has seemingly been on the rise.  That's a problem.  

 

The idea that knowledge is un-cool and people who strive towards it are the enemy.  That's anti-intellectualism.  

 

I'm not saying everybody should bow down to academics... I'm merely saying that completely dismissing them and treating them with hostility is, well, really stupid.   Work together to find a solution instead of acting like children.  

Edited by BaconRaygun

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4 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

 

 

its about 2.4 billion, but who's counting? 

 

 

 

 

 

...it's 2.8 billion.  

 

And the population of Asia as a whole accounts for something like 60% of the world.  

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4 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

160208-mak-bernie-military-tease_ivmgk3

 

With that reversed image it just gets harder and harder to tell who's on the Left and who's on the Right !!!  :thumbsup2:

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1 minute ago, BaconRaygun said:

...it's 2.8 billion.  

 

...and by this time tomorrow it will be 2.9 billion...  :kissing2:

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1 minute ago, habu2 said:

 

...and by this time tomorrow it will be 2.9 billion...  :kissing2:

 

 

Lol right?  If it isn't already... 

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2 hours ago, habu2 said:

 

With that reversed image it just gets harder and harder to tell who's on the Left and who's on the Right !!!  :thumbsup2:

 

 

The F-35 was the first time I ever heard of that nondescript fellow riding it. He really wanted that for his home state. Really makes you think. 

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Reading the report,

 

Quote

Of the Japanese, he said: “They are not in their squadrons ready to walk to an airplane when they hear a call. No, they’re at home. They’re at home having to drive into work, figure out where to go, fire up an airplane and get out there.”

 

This seems strange to me that the JMSDF or JASDF's Search and Rescue teams are not on base, given how disaster prone (earthquakes, tsunami, etc) Japan is. I am finding the above statement hard to believe. I wonder if it's true..

 

 

 

 

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I am finding the above statement hard to believe.

 

That article jumped around so much it was really hard to follow. One minute we’re in the cockpit, the next we’re on a witch hunt for a scapegoat, then we’re in the water, then we’re in budget hearing....

 

I feel like a lot of dramatic - and quite possibly non-factual - flair was used by the author(s).  
 

.

 

Edited by habu2

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1 hour ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

The F-35 was the first time I ever heard of that nondescript fellow riding it. He really wanted that for his home state. Really makes you think. 


my non-partisan opinion:  our elected officials will do and say whatever works to get them re-elected. Not what’s good or right for the country, or the military, or the people. If they don’t get re-elected they don’t get those nice visits (and envelopes) from the lobbyists. So they say and do what will keep their voters happy and Pulling That Lever. 
 

The title Public Servant is no longer applicable. 

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6 hours ago, JackMan said:

Reading the report,

 

This seems strange to me that the JMSDF or JASDF's Search and Rescue teams are not on base, given how disaster prone (earthquakes, tsunami, etc) Japan is. I am finding the above statement hard to believe. I wonder if it's true..

 

 

There is a big difference between maintaining a SAR Capability and a SAR Ready. MCAS Iwakuni divested their organic SAR capability as a cost saving measure years ago, with a handshake agreement with the Japanese that they would perform SAR duties if called upon. The problem was that this was not formalized in the sort of MOA of MOU, and there was no requirement for the JMSDF (the only ones at the base) to maintain any sort of SAR ready to support the US presence in Iwakuni.

 

From a Japanese perspective I would be reluctant to sign up for such a responsibility, the manpower and costs involved to maintain a SAR ready is significant, and would it distract from any other mission sets. The only helicopter assets at Iwakuni are the Japanese minesweepers, and the site of the collision was far enough out that they would have little if any on station time to perform a search once they got there. Komatsushima is closer to the crash, but that would not make a lot of sense to obligate Komatsushima to stand a SAR ready for Iwakuni. I admit that I am not smart enough on the location sites for the Japanese Coast guard air stations to say if there are any closer, but the coast guard or other civil rescue organizations are going to be the ones standing those sorts of short response readies. Outside of the coast guard, other organizations may not be equipped and trained for maritime rescue, however.

 

 

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8 hours ago, habu2 said:


my non-partisan opinion:  our elected officials will do and say whatever works to get them re-elected. Not what’s good or right for the country, or the military, or the people. If they don’t get re-elected they don’t get those nice visits (and envelopes) from the lobbyists. So they say and do what will keep their voters happy and Pulling That Lever. 
 

The title Public Servant is no longer applicable. 

Just playing devil's advocate here so don't take this to mean I'm saying you're wrong and that I disagree BUT couldn't one maybe argue that in some ways representational government means that they are supposed to be doing what got them elected and/or re-elected? They are supposed to be doing the will of their constituents right? I think where that system fails is the lack of attention the public is giving to what they promise they will do and what they actually do. IF people would pay just a little bit more attention to the actions of their representatives and less to the hyperbola, I think things would be much different. Even the politicians that I dis-like because I disagree with 99.9% of their policy stance, if they hold to the promises that got them elected then I think they are a good representative. That's one thing people can't really honestly argue about you know who....promises made, promises kept.

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12 hours ago, BaconRaygun said:

 

What makes it a snobby expression?  It merely means the practice of hostility towards, and the dismissal of knowledge.  What is snobby about saying the dismissal of academia is dumb?   We would still be living in the stone age if humanity did not strive towards knowledge.   What happened to Galileo is a perfect example of anti-intellectualism.   Here you have this guy who figured something out, and had evidence to support his claim, evidence that anybody with functioning eyes could intemperate... and he was ridiculed and ostracized.   This still happens today, and has seemingly been on the rise.  That's a problem.  

 

The idea that knowledge is un-cool and people who strive towards it are the enemy.  That's anti-intellectualism.  

 

I'm not saying everybody should bow down to academics... I'm merely saying that completely dismissing them and treating them with hostility is, well, really stupid.   Work together to find a solution instead of acting like children.  

Sorry, the original post was edited so I can't explain what in it came across differently to me or how I got the feeling it was saying what I thought. I apologize for misplacing meaning in what you'd posted. I agree there is a difference between dismissing academia for the sake of it and questioning the basis and motive of it. Skepticism good, dismissal bad. :thumbsup::cheers:

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19 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

 

Bored, John?

Bored?  Not sure I'd say that but I did have a bit of spare time on my hands.  Not nearly as much as you did apparently, TT.  Regardless, thank you for a very thought provoking reply.  

 

Quote

go cut the budget by 50 percent, and dump into other "social welfare" that's also criminally mismanaged. There's nothing you've said above that doesn't also apply to nearly every other sector of government. in fact one could argue the US military is one of the few institutions that actually "work" as low as the bar for "work" can be set.

 

The other way this doesn't work is cutting the military 50 percent but maintaining the same alliances and commitments means you'll see more issue because the work hasn't reduced but you're now trying to do the same things with half as much." need to re-cajigger the alliances and military commitments first, and then from there reflect military size and force structure to suit it. 

 

the last part of that is, the notion of any outcome short of red hoardes marching through main street is acceptable. I mean Red Japan, a united best korea, and communist Australia do sound pretty awesome. As long as its not my main street I guess.

 

Here's the part I struggle with - I see a common theme with the certain political factions going after "social welfare" programs as if that is somehow a dirty, perverse concept.  They may not be as efficient as they should be (but as you said, that's pretty much par for the course with any government run program) but are they not worthy of being funded?   Those "social welfare" programs are pretty much what sets us apart from the third world, not our glorious military.   BTW, by "social welfare" I also include those frivolous things like infrastructure upgrades, high speed rail, funding R&D programs, affordable education, etc.    You know, all those things that the rest of the 1st world (and many developing countries) seem to have in abundance.    Otherwise, maybe we really are just Zambia with nukes.  Plus those things I just mentioned have shown to have a much higher return on investment than any military program out there.  

 

Lastly, on the social welfare subject, many would argue that the military's primary role is to be a corporate welfare program.  This isn't just on the military of course, look at all the crap that is forced on the military by congress.    Want to terminate a failed weapons system that isn't wanted(LCS comes to mind)? No way, those are built in my district, need to order more of them!   The rot goes deep and is widespread. 

 

As far as Red Japan, commie Australia, Peoples United Republic of Korea, etc.   if they go that route, it's because they were not paying their way defense-wise and were just expecting Uncle Sam to pick up their slack.   That's what our Beloved Leader has stated, is this not a reasonable outlook?  Providing for the defense of others seems to be nothing more than a 21st century "White Man's Burden".  Plus, those alliances and commitments you mentioned are so passe.  We really don't get any benefit from them, correct?  Again, I'm just quoting from current playbook.   

Edited by 11bee

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5 hours ago, Hoops said:

 

There is a big difference between maintaining a SAR Capability and a SAR Ready. MCAS Iwakuni divested their organic SAR capability as a cost saving measure years ago, with a handshake agreement with the Japanese that they would perform SAR duties if called upon. The problem was that this was not formalized in the sort of MOA of MOU, and there was no requirement for the JMSDF (the only ones at the base) to maintain any sort of SAR ready to support the US presence in Iwakuni.

 

.... Outside of the coast guard, other organizations may not be equipped and trained for maritime rescue, however.

 

 

Man, that's unreal!  Given that Japan -- an island nation surrounded by vast oceans on all sides ---AND is a hotspot for hostilities AND given the number of US & Japanese military assets, I'd have thought both the US and the Japanese would have invested more into SAR.  At the very least, the US could lease a couple of Shinmaywa US-2 or even the older but probably still capable Shinmeiwa US-1A.  827 lives were saved by the US-1A since 1976 until the type was retired in 2017:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Meiwa_US-1A#Operational_history

 

 

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12 hours ago, habu2 said:

 

That article jumped around so much it was really hard to follow. One minute we’re in the cockpit, the next we’re on a witch hunt for a scapegoat, then we’re in the water, then we’re in budget hearing....

 

I feel like a lot of dramatic - and quite possibly non-factual - flair was used by the author(s).  
 

 

I agree.  Reading the article I kept wondering about how they knew about the pilot's watch and other stuff that made it seem as if the authors had a front seat view of what happened.  I, too, suspect that they added some flair for dramatic purposes.

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

BTW, by "social welfare" I also include those frivolous things like infrastructure upgrades, high speed rail, funding R&D programs, affordable education, etc.    You know, all those things that the rest of the 1st world (and many developing countries) seem to have in abundance.    Otherwise, maybe we really are just Zambia with nukes.  Plus those things I just mentioned have shown to have a much higher return on investment than any military program out there.  

Without getting too deep into the illegal depths of the rules here, I'll just say this. There is a difference between public welfare and social welfare. In that I mean, the well being of the public is one of the main jobs of government. That is to provide for the common good of all of it's people, be it defense or infrastructure as you mention and to help maintain cooperation between the states etc... Social welfare however is more of a job for society. That is the place for sections of society to operate, be that Churches, non-profit, family, neighbors etc... The problem with a centralized means of controlling SOCIAL welfare is that it is centralized, and therefore too ineffective. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with that, I don't want to get a finger shaking and told to knock it off. :cheers:

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3 hours ago, 11bee said:

 

 

Here's the part I struggle with - I see a common theme with the certain political factions going after "social welfare" programs as if that is somehow a dirty, perverse concept.  They may not be as efficient as they should be (but as you said, that's pretty much par for the course with any government run program) but are they not worthy of being funded?   Those "social welfare" programs are pretty much what sets us apart from the third world, not our glorious military.   BTW, by "social welfare" I also include those frivolous things like infrastructure upgrades, high speed rail, funding R&D programs, affordable education, etc.    You know, all those things that the rest of the 1st world (and many developing countries) seem to have in abundance.    Otherwise, maybe we really are just Zambia with nukes.  Plus those things I just mentioned have shown to have a much higher return on investment than any military program out there.  

 

*Laughs in California bullet train.* As I alluded to earlier its more than money as well. might have to revisit this one. The last guy did a big infrastructure package. while also expanding wars and winning peace prizes. good times. 

 

Reform is really the answer. if 90 percent of your money is being wasted the solution shouldn't be "dump 190 percent more money" to get the job done. 

 

 

 

even things like education are in some dire straights AND its looking fairly outdated and outmodded in a lot of different ways. Absolutely astounded in the days of smart phones we still have the kiddies sitting in classrooms like its the 1800s chicago-model factory preparation/education for factories that have long died. yet we keep the model? why? oh right teachers unions. Is it working? well working is a complicated. Can we prescribe the kids drugs while developing adolescent brains?  what could go wrong. I was in school in 1990s and even then we knew this stuff was disco era. it was outdated in 90s, 30 years later...whew. not to mention a lot of it has been infiltrated and become predatory at the higher education levels. its a scam. In fact now the plan is to bail people out of it by rewarding the scammers. no other proof its garbage than the fact that not the .gov is talking about buying it up, because otherwise its valueless. its not worth the money. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

Lastly, on the social welfare subject, many would argue that the military's primary role is to be a corporate welfare program.  This isn't just on the military of course, look at all the crap that is forced on the military by congress.    Want to terminate a failed weapons system that isn't wanted(LCS comes to mind)? No way, those are built in my district, need to order more of them!   The rot goes deep and is widespread. 

 

 

yes. There is a swamp. its not what a lot of people think. Its far more bland but no less cancerous and potentially fatal.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

As far as Red Japan, commie Australia, Peoples United Republic of Korea, etc.   if they go that route, it's because they were not paying their way defense-wise and were just expecting Uncle Sam to pick up their slack.   That's what our Beloved Leader has stated, is this not a reasonable outlook?  Providing for the defense of others seems to be nothing more than a 21st century "White Man's Burden".  Plus, those alliances and commitments you mentioned are so passe.  We really don't get any benefit from them, correct?  Again, I'm just quoting from current playbook.   

 

You can see my sigline, that hasn't changed in years. 

 

my point was we may want a standard a little higher than "so long as the commies aren't on mainstreet life is fine" 

 

and 

 

2. That we should basically formally break away or take other official diplomatic courses to end these relationships instead of just sandbagging. In other words, lets make the divorce official instead of quitting our job and sitting on the couch until wife gets the hint we aren't contributing anymore and tosses us. in both cases the result is the same. The former is preferable to latter though. 

 

if we want to say for example "our commitment to NATO is when a Russian tank crosses your border-- a direct incursion. And thats it." and not say "well I never liked that dictator either lets just go bomb him and sow chaos and genocide in the name of nation building and muh democracy" which you know not even the US really employs technically since we are a constitutional republic (on paper anyway, its getting rather heated as of late) 

 

I don't know if we can get through anymore. People are too well programmed at this point. They're disturbingly well conditioned. And anyone who is different is branded some evil terrible name and then quickly cast aside. Its extremely bad. 

 

What I mean is there is a fellow from CT who branded the current C-N-C many bad names, and then unfollowed him on social media (such conviction) meanwhile though he made sure to actually expand the military under this same C-N-C because Sikorsky, GE, Colt, Groton Boat etc. are in his state. Its all a game. symbolic change vs real change. Did you ever hate "Hitler"so much you demanded he be even more heavily armed? and you buy him new helicopters in the form of Sikorsky VH-92s? Billions of dollars in weapons and new helicopters vs unfollowing him on twitter. Whew that'll show em-- but people fell for it. 

 

its not that the US is "deeply divided", slightly its always divided somehow. the issue is that you have a lot of people who are actually very united on a lot of fronts, but the decision makers, lawmakers, reps, etc are not on the same page to put it mildly. So far example you can have people across the political spectrum that agree the military needs to be curtailed. our foreign adventurism needs to end etc. But you have a bunch of the people you vote for (regardless of their party) who refuse to do that. you can't vote your way out. Both parties are unbelievably hawkish, they're more than happy to "come together" when it comes to renewing the patriot act or expanding the the government and then telling you "how hum, we just can't agree on anything!"  youre getting a distressingly bipartisanship pro war, more waste, less accountable and less individual rights conglomeration 

 

You got adventurism with W, then we vote in O to stop that and reverse it- but surprise! hes actually expanding it! haha! so the one thing everyone wants is the one thing they refuse to give. and people throw up their hands and go "how about this orange guy at this point, it doesn't seem to matter-- left right, smart, dumb, black, white, the free fall continues, lets get an outsider at this point, and I don't really care what he breaks, because the last guys already busted it very nicely indeed" the entire US foreign policy of the 21st century has been a disaster to the point a lot of people are convinced there's an invisible hand at work, because its not only self destructive, its obviously self destructive. As i said the Chines re dumbfounded the Russians are getting increasing tired of it. 

 

even the whole "muh Russia rigged it" thing is the establishment going "how can we ignore what people are trying to tell us, while also laying the ground work for yet another war?! I got it! Russia!" its absurd on its face. its so unbelievably embarrassing that I knew it was fake because if it was anywhere remotely true they would bury it deeper than an Epstein hidden camera. The worlds largest super power with a 700 billion a year military got smoked by a backwards has-been who's economy is about the size of Brazil? and our massive post 9/11 security and intelligence state just utterly failed to pick it up?? were they too busy watching kids post cartoon frogs online? and you want to tell everyone that? one could dance naked on a table at a NATO summit and it would be less damaging than telling our allies that Russia is actually running our country via hacking and deciding who runs the last global super power. I'd  have to admire them if it only it was true. Silly us, trying to change regimes in places like Afghanistan. you didn't just use hacking to mess with them? LOL. just LOL. Remember when we lured Russia into Afghanistan to waste time and resources and hasten the decline of their empire? we would never be so stupid would we? not for 8 years, but 18 and counting? sign me up. All through the 90s I read about how smart we were to dupe and waste those dumb dumb Russkies...

 

You could make the argument its always been like this. Smoke filled backrooms where things are really done, how the sausage is made yada yada. Whats amazing now is just how badly the mask has fallen off. Politicians can't wait to tell you how happy they are to take your individual rights and/or your property-- they literally run on it. and just because the war on terror, drugs, poverty, etc hasn't worked, thats no reason not to try the same with guns. Itll be great. hey we might just get closer to Zambia than you realize, I can't get a full auto AK on a street corner, but if the war on guns goes like the war on drugs, I'm not far away! see always a bright side. Always wanted a full auto. 

 

 anytime I hear "threat to democracy" stand by, thats some guy who's about to use that as an excuse to ramrod something bad through. or tell you the importance of shipping your job overseas for the common good or shutting it down because a swedish teen whined about it-- but don't worry your new tech job will be here any decade now. They don't even hide it anymore. theyre treating everything as a mandate. Look at Virginia. there's some notion that if they're voted in even on thin margins thats now a mandate.  "lets take a vote and then do what we want anyway, and don't even bother to hide it, half of them think they can't run their own lives without a massive government program anyway" I have no representation where I am. They call higher headquarters in NYC or California and check in with them. if california wants our coal, gas, and oil industry shut down, well by god we are doing it. who needs jobs anyway? this is the party of the blue collar workers?  no thought about whats best for the locals using local government. This is more "smart power" in action! and we are approaching anarcho-tyranny and the nation is pretty much a managerial state already.

 

Theres a massive credibility gap thats a mile wide by those who's programming hasn't taken. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TaiidanTomcat

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7 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

http://alert5.com/2020/01/31/co-of-vmfa-225-fired-for-making-low-level-pass-during-sundown-ceremony/

 

slightly on topic?

 

CO fired for low level pass during sundowner ceremony 

If the picture in the linked article showed the “offense”, I’m truly SMH (especially since I believe this guy was actually in the back seat).  

 

On the other hand, you can never be too safe I suppose.   Some would argue that political correctness is ruining the military, I’d argue that the obsession with zero defect, safety uber alles is doing even more damage.   

 

That being said, I’d also argue that the 2018 midair and this silly event have nothing in common.   

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