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MiG-21PF and other Fishbed versions in 72nd scale from Eduard


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1. The full letter from the CEO was shown and not just one sentence!

 

cDDPg2Y.png

 

2. I did make it clear above that NOT only 48th scale kits will be made in future by Eduard but also SOME 72nd but it will not be, and it is NOT a priority of Eduard.

 

3. Yes, they did say that one day there is a chance for a continuation of the Fishben line but the time frame was modified so many times already and it is now like in Socialist days (and after all the MiG-21 is a Socialist product) when everything was produced based on FIVE YEAR PLANS.    : )   : )   : )

 

As it stands at the moment even the MiG-21R in 72nd, which needs minimal new sprue work will be only in 2023 or later. And lets not talk about kits like the MiG-21SMT or the bis which need an almost completely new tooling can be expected only in many years from there (2024-2026). And we are still not anywhere near a 72nd scale MiG-21F-13 or the MiG-21UM trainer!!!

This is all speaking only of the Fishbed, while Eduard from the limited 72nd range would have to do so many other types from WW2 promissed also. So to squeeze in a Fishbed into that very limited few new 72nd scale kits in any years production list is frankly speaking . . .  

 

4. Good luck to SH if they do a MiG-21, one thing for sure I would NEVER buy it. But this is only my opinion and this topic is not about this SH maker or Zvezda or any other but about Eduard MiG-21's in 72nd scale!

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

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Unfortunately I have to be negative for clarity: there is such a dearth of Cold War era Soviet jet subjects coming out that we could put all of them, including multiple scales, in one thread. (And trying to shepherd cats is a bit pointless anyway.) 

 

If Eduard do the design and tooling for "Thursday" (whatever that really means) editions of the MiG-21F-13 and -21UM then, surely, there is a higher probability of 1/72 scale editions emerging — eventually? I'm also quite certain my own wishing for more 1/48 versions of the venerable Fishbed is not going to alter Eduard's plans one tiny bit. So, panic over. 

 

As for my preferred scale, "PayDay" 1/32, there now seems no hope of a replacement for the inadequate Trumpeter Fishbed kits. So rather than beating my head against the wall I accept that the 1/48 route gives the best choices, and Eduard's MiG-21's are delightful (as is the Bobcat Firebar, AMK Foxhound, ICM Foxbats, Trumpeter Fishpot/Maiden etc etc forcing me to think 1/48 even though it's not my preferred scale). 

 

Eduard - yes, MiG-21 - yes, 1/72 - not much of what I had to say; but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Actually, it's pretty good going. In a round-about way the Eduard CEO was saying, in effect, "sorry to our 1/72 scale customers, we do love you, but 1/48 scale is where it's at for us, and 1970s Cold War subjects remain a viable part of that programme". Thanks for posting the reply.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

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There is nothing new in this post from CEO of Eduard. It was visible in the past years that 72nd scale kits are slipping into the background. The post is only a confirmation that 48th is what they are concentrating and will produce mainly in the future. 

Of course there will be some occassional 72nd scale kit here and there, but . . .

 

Will it be a Fishbed or a scale down from the WW2 range is another question. Or will it be one of those domestic civilian things that Eduard is preocupied with recentyl, we will see.

 

There are more kits than what I can build in my life time in the stash so who cares what Eduard makes or not!   : )  : )   : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

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On 12/19/2021 at 11:33 AM, drake122 said:

"Thursday" is just a mistranslation, as someone obviously non-czech speaker read the forum and posted a crude google translate effort on the last page.

 

It is supposed to be slang for 48th scale in czech language.

This is why I cannot stand these machine translations, they cannot possibly capture the fine points and "character" of the language. "Chtvrtek" (phonetically) in Czech means Thursday. In modelers' community, "shtvrtka" means "quarter scale" i.e. 1/48.

Edited by sakai
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On 12/18/2021 at 4:19 PM, ya-gabor said:

1. The full letter from the CEO was shown and not just one sentence!

 

cDDPg2Y.png

 

2. I did make it clear above that NOT only 48th scale kits will be made in future by Eduard but also SOME 72nd but it will not be, and it is NOT a priority of Eduard.

 

3. Yes, they did say that one day there is a chance for a continuation of the Fishben line but the time frame was modified so many times already and it is now like in Socialist days (and after all the MiG-21 is a Socialist product) when everything was produced based on FIVE YEAR PLANS.    : )   : )   : )

 

As it stands at the moment even the MiG-21R in 72nd, which needs minimal new sprue work will be only in 2023 or later. And lets not talk about kits like the MiG-21SMT or the bis which need an almost completely new tooling can be expected only in many years from there (2024-2026). And we are still not anywhere near a 72nd scale MiG-21F-13 or the MiG-21UM trainer!!!

This is all speaking only of the Fishbed, while Eduard from the limited 72nd range would have to do so many other types from WW2 promissed also. So to squeeze in a Fishbed into that very limited few new 72nd scale kits in any years production list is frankly speaking . . .  

 

4. Good luck to SH if they do a MiG-21, one thing for sure I would NEVER buy it. But this is only my opinion and this topic is not about this SH maker or Zvezda or any other but about Eduard MiG-21's in 72nd scale!

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

That translation is just a disaster.

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Sorry that is (on the modelforum cz site) the only translation one can get for those who does not speak that language!  But at least we outside the Czech Language can get a little understanding of what is going on. In this case some ideas behind Eduard kits.

 

I have been on Czech forums for years and so it was clear for me anyway that it was all about the 48th scale. In the original post I did on previous page I did add in brackets that Thursday is (48th scale) for others to understand what it is all about. So it should have been clear from that! It seems that people (native English speakers) dont rreally read posts or have difficulty in comprehending what they are reading and completely missed this point.

 

What is clear on the other hand that 72nd scale for this company is not so important and it is on a back burner with all the glitter of new WW2 48th scale kits in the forefront.

 

I have given up about 3 years ago on waiting for Eduard to do other Fishbed versions like the MiG-21bis which is interesting and important for me. They did say it will be made together with SMT and other versions, but did not say WHEN. Years? Decades?

 

Anyway I did for myself some resin parts to convert the 72nd scale MF into bis and I am happy with it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

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The fellow modeller commenting here did ask this CEO about future and which kits will follow in Fishbed line 72nd scale.

 

Ofxdo28.jpg

 

The only problem here is that the same answer was given, was it about 5 years or more ago from the same CEO. There is no indication for WHEN. It is just one of the long term company plans (dreams), just as many other kits from this company.

 

Will it be Years or Decades??? There is simply no point anymore in waiting for it. In few days time it will be 2022. 

We are not immortal!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Yes we already know same info, like Gabor said, but acutal question is when??

 

Maybe fire in Eduard warehouse changed long term plans, so they are doing "popular" WW2 to bring more income to the company, so 1/72 jet planes are not in focus any more...

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48 minutes ago, mario krijan said:

Yes we already know same info, like Gabor said, but acutal question is when??

 

Maybe fire in Eduard warehouse changed long term plans, so they are doing "popular" WW2 to bring more income to the company, so 1/72 jet planes are not in focus any more...

I asked date predictions for 72nd bis, SMT and R, the response was it is too early to speculate an exact date. I will try to press for more information. I figure they will first release Spitfire Mk.whatever and Bf-10whatever version 1,406,003, because of course there is a shortage of those on the czech market.🤣

Edited by drake122
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What is it so difficult to understand that Eduard is a small company with limited capacity? They simply cannot release many new 1/72 kits so they had to focus on something which is 1/48 scale since obviously it sells better, probably much better. Otherwise they would have to expand. There was some talk about it but obviously it's expensive and not quick and easy to do.

 

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11 hours ago, sakai said:

What is it so difficult to understand that Eduard is a small company with limited capacity? They simply cannot release many new 1/72 kits so they had to focus on something which is 1/48 scale since obviously it sells better, probably much better. Otherwise they would have to expand. There was some talk about it but obviously it's expensive and not quick and easy to do.

 

Noo, i understand that Eduard is small company, with limited resources, but if you are open to public in many other aspects, why cannot be open and say: look we producing 90% of income from WW2 kits and repacks, we dont want to make some bizzare 1/72 kits in next 5 years, and thats it! Nothing more.

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On 12/22/2021 at 1:16 AM, mario krijan said:

Noo, i understand that Eduard is small company, with limited resources, but if you are open to public in many other aspects, why cannot be open and say: look we producing 90% of income from WW2 kits and repacks, we dont want to make some bizzare 1/72 kits in next 5 years, and thats it! Nothing more.

But on the contrary, they do want to continue with 1/72 kits. They did say so and have been releasing them, just no that fast (and they said that too).

 Some folks seem to have personal issues with them and make it look as if Eduard is being dishonest or misleading modeling community.

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7 hours ago, sakai said:

But on the contrary, they do want to continue with 1/72 kits. They did say so and have been releasing them, just no that fast (and they said that too).

 Some folks seem to have personal issues with them and make it look as if Eduard is being dishonest or misleading modeling community.

 

This is true, I observe this on modelforum a lot. Czech modellers give them hell over every little mistake. Their recent Zero release is a prime example. The red color on japanese roundels is brought up repeatedly as wrong, people go as far as asking for refunds over this. Just spray the color yourself then, or buy aftermarket. 

 

Even on this forum, there is a topic regarding their in project Mig-21F and users are very vocal about them catering to czech modellers only with the choice of version and they assume in advance Eduard will declare version differences unimportant, where the truth is, there is no way to speculate on such things in advance and it is clearly prejudice/personal bias.

 

But, I hear it is exactly the same on polish forums and criticism towards Arma hobby. So, I guess we just live in a world where expectations are over the top and entitlement is even greater.

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The difference between the optimist and the pessimist is that the pessimist has more information.

 

The opinion I have expressed is based NOT on SPECULATION but on experience of working on some project with Eduard int he past decades.

 

More information?

Years ago I have been in regular contact with Edu on development of Efka as they call the MiG-21F-13. This was the very start of the project so I have a “little more information” on development and the way the kit will develop.

 

Truth is Eduard does not care about provided information and believe everything they do is perfect the way it is (even if it is a wrong scale Me-109G). There is simply no point in wasting any time providing to them any information as they ignore it. It is like banging ones head against a wall. There is absolutely no point in it and utter waste of time from the side of the contributor.

 

I would recommend to anyone interested going back some ten or so years here on ARC and read Eduard comments about the development of the MiG-21 bis kit.

 

Words “MINOR”, “IRRELEVANT”, “NOT VISIBLE”,  “UNIMPORTANT” . . .  are the exact ones used by Eduard to discribe anything that they have no intention of dealing with! This is not fiction or speculation.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

The difference between the optimist and the pessimist is that the pessimist has more information.

 

The opinion I have expressed is based NOT on SPECULATION but on experience of working on some project with Eduard int he past decades.

 

More information?

Years ago I have been in regular contact with Edu on development of Efka as they call the MiG-21F-13. This was the very start of the project so I have a “little more information” on development and the way the kit will develop.

 

Truth is Eduard does not care about provided information and believe everything they do is perfect the way it is (even if it is a wrong scale Me-109G). There is simply no point in wasting any time providing to them any information as they ignore it. It is like banging ones head against a wall. There is absolutely no point in it and utter waste of time from the side of the contributor.

 

I would recommend to anyone interested going back some ten or so years here on ARC and read Eduard comments about the development of the MiG-21 bis kit.

 

Words “MINOR”, “IRRELEVANT”, “NOT VISIBLE”,  “UNIMPORTANT” . . .  are the exact ones used by Eduard to discribe anything that they have no intention of dealing with! This is not fiction or speculation.

 

Best regards

Gabor

+1 

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I know this is not 48th scale forum here but in January there will be a Weekend version of the almost decade old MiG-21SMT (Type 50) kits re-release in 48th scale. There will be 4 paint options in the kit. 

The problem here is with one of them.

 

Yes, it is a MiG-21. At least Eduard did get this part right.

 

But the illustrated Board 31 was not a true MiG-21SMT with that enoumous dorsal fuel tank!!! From the outside this 31 (I mean the real aircraft) looked almost identical with the later MiG-21bis versions.

Thing is that in service it became obvious that the big tank SMT was not what it was originally planned to be, it had inferior capabilities. Production was stoped after only a limited number of real SMT's. So on Gorkiy production line a new smaller dorsal fuel tank was added to SMT fuselage / engine / instrumentation combo. While for the outside  world (even unit technicians refferecd to them as SMT) it was named still MiG-21SMT but the internal documents reffered to it as Type 50bis. Yes, it was that particular new dorsal spine which was used for the new production version, the MiG-21bis (Type 75).

 

To anyone interested in Russian AF service in Hungary I can highly recommend a friends book which he has researched and worked on almost 20 years. It has close to 600 pages jammed packed with historic information and hundreds of never before published photos (both B/W and colour) of Russian units stationed in Hungary.

 

I am just a modeller, you don’t have to believe me, but the author of the books is Karoly Vandor an aviation historian with long years of research behind him on the subject.

 

5hrnEOE.jpg

 

The 515 wing (IAP) stationed at Tököl airfield near capital city Budapest had several units (squadrons) and this particular unit was equipped with the „hybrid” MiG-21 version. They were called Type 50bis but already transitioned to the smaller dorsal fuel tank (technical number 50-6127-100) of the same version used later on MiG-21 bis.

They also had a new afterburner section, identical to the one used on real MiG-21bis (Type 75).

The big dorsal tank “classical” MiG-21SMT’s (Type 50) served only in the 1 st squadron of the 515 wing and had smaller two digit aircraft numbers up to low twenties.

 

What is wrong with the Eduard illustration and paint scheme option provided in this kit?

 

-   This is complete Eduard fiction! Aircraft 31 did not have the big dorsal tank!

 

-  This unit did not use Yellow aircraft numbers! Light blue / red / and when camuflage was painted on only white outline were used. I was there and seen those Fishbeds.

 

-  If the decal designer had a closer look at available photos of 31 then he should have seen/noticed  that this particular aircraft had the very distinct “Отличный” or Excellence badge (stylized aircraft outline with double line behind it inside a Pentagon) on the nose on both sides in red.  

 

-  The illustration shows aircraft 31 as white, once again on the photos it is visible that it was a perfect condition completely natural metal aircraft with varnish protection. ALL the rivets were visible on it and in mid 1970's when the photos were taken it was imaculate!!!

 

KlRzUiB.jpg

 

This is what Eduard is writing about this aircrafts paint scheme:

 

MiG-21SMT, 515 IAP, Tököl, Hungary, late 1970´s
Yellow 31 was serving with the 515 Fighter Regiment in Tököl. The aircraft was delivered in natural metal finish, later on the aircraft of the unit were given camouflage and the tactical numbers were painted with white outline only. The aircraft was given protective grey painting on the bottom of the front section of the fuselage and was presented to delegation of Hungarian pilots, who were undergoing training for usage of special bombs at the time.

 

 

Of course as always Eduard will say that all the above information/views and critique is:

-  MINOR and unimportant details.

-  "Why? Yellow is a nice colour" In the past the CEO did have this very important resoning why Yellow was used in a previous project.

-  "Our Eduard experts know exactly right what it was like"

 

-  That Hungarian idiot is once again attacking the perfect work of Eduard. . .

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

 

  

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On the Czech forum the CEO of the company gave a very kind and constructive reply to the problem raised above.

 

If you don’t like the colour of the decal make one for yourself / paint it as you like.

 

This is a great and modeller friendly approach from a manufacturer. No comment!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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10 hours ago, HomeBe said:

By the way, do you know a reliable bookstore (online ?) where it's possible to order the two Vándor Károly "magnus opus": Légierő társbérletben I & II ?

PM me.

Thanks in advance.

 

V.P.

 

Hi Homebe,

 

The book was a labour of love and a result of decades of research, collecting information, photos, speaking to the actual people, pilots, technicians, commanders of the Russian units stationed in Hungary and what is more important keeping in touch with them ever since.

The books were published more than a decade ago, they were published by the man himself from his own money. Don’t know how many were released but I know that in Hungary they were sold very fast and there was a lot of interest.

 

One important note is that this book is in Hungarian language and was made specially for local consumption. But the quality was first class and printed on excellent paper with both b/w and colour photos.

Somewhere there was a plan to do an English version but once again without a real publishing companies financial means in the background this initiative is on hold. A new edition would be very welcome since in the past decade a lot of new information and many new photos have surfaced!

 

I will ask him if he has any of the books and willing to sell them.

 

Best regarfds

Gabor

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On 12/28/2021 at 4:21 PM, ya-gabor said:

On the Czech forum the CEO of the company gave a very kind and constructive reply to the problem raised above.

 

If you don’t like the colour of the decal make one for yourself / paint it as you like.

 

This is a great and modeller friendly approach from a manufacturer. No comment!

 

Best regards

Gabor

It's crystal clear that you hold very personal grudge against Eduard and Vladimir Sulc in particular. Do they owe you money? Did they beat you up?

If not why in the world would you care what they say and/or do? If you really must just simply publish how to correct their mistakes but please quit that sarcasm and attacks that have become a ridiculous beating of the dead horse. If that is not enough for you become Eduard's share holder, then you'll have a word (maybe). Or best of all start your own company.

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Pointing out / drawing attention to mistakes, problems, historic inaccuracies, colour discrepancies with a kit is not exactly the Spanish Inquisition against a company or a CEO. Showing the companies response is also part of a given story which shows the attitude of a given company towards the customers. This is all.

 

But if you think so it is up to you, there is absolutely no problem with that, fortunately we can have our own opinions. Well in most countries and in most forums.  : )   : )   : )

 

Best regards

Gabor 

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