echolmberg Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Hi guys, Did the B-29 Enola Gay have the "Circle R" or the "Circle Arrow" on it's tail on the day it dropped the A-bomb? I know there's a story behind it all but I just can't remember what it is. Thanks! Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Eric, Am pretty sure it was Circle R. The 509th aircraft were actually coded Circle Arrow; but they put on deceptive fin codes to act as a ruse in disguising the “Atomic Bombers” . Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
echolmberg Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Thank you Brendan. There are lots of pictures showing it with both the arrow and the R. I'd love to do the one with the arrow because it really reminds me of the old Washington Redskins helmets which I really loved. In the interest of historical accuracy, I will use the "circle R" markings to depict it as it was specificaly on August 6th, 1945. Thanks for the info! Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Dedfinitely had the "R" on the tail for the mission flight. This pic shows her taxing into the hardstand post mission, note the "P" tail of the aircraft in the hardstand next to her, and the reception party in jeeps, and vehicles (Dodge WC57) standing by. Here she is shut down, with aircraft 83/"P" parked nextdoor. There is film footage out there of them pre-mission and returning as well, showing the "R" on the tail. Edited February 25, 2020 by 82Whitey51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Eric, Am pretty sure it was Circle R. The 509th aircraft were actually coded Circle Arrow; but they put on deceptive fin codes to act as a ruse in disguising the “Atomic Bombers” . Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Eric, Glad to have been some help. Regardless, if you do a build, sure like to see it when done, regardless of fin flash. Personally, I like the Circle Arrow too! Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 82Whitey51, Thanks for the fine photos of the “Gay”. The B-29 was SUCH a cool bird and the pinnacle of WWII technology - an essentially MECHANICAL Gun laying computer for the turrets! How cool is that? My uncle used to fly them and later in B-50/ KB-50’s. The stories....! Perhaps you might answer a query: in the upper picture above the number “2” on the Enola Gay ( aft fuselage ), is that a camera port or what? I’ve never been able to figure it out. Any info would be appreciated. Many Thanks! Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I believe its an oblique camera: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Doubtful it’s an oblique camera, as it would be pointing toward the sky. A close inspection of the cutaway shows that the camera pictured is pointing down and out the lower starboard side. I think it’s a hatch of some kind. Either an emergency escape hatch, or a hatch to ventilate the compartment because that’s where the APU was located. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Hey guys, So appreciate the input! It looks like it and the vertical camera installation were both in/at the same place. But the APU Was ALSO aft of that pressure bulkhead. I Remember stories from my uncle that the flight engineer HAD to have something open “ back there “ for ventilation. And also have it secured WELL prior to climb out. Also, this APU, having caught fire, may have been the demise of the “Kee Bird” recovery several years ago. Regardless, I really appreciate y’all’s information and interest! Sincerely, Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) I was looking at #109 on the cutaway (labeled "oblique camera") which looks to be where the window is above the #2 in the 82 on the Enola Gay picture. In the cutaway there is another camera labeled "vertical camera" (#110 on the diagram) located right close. I have no idea. I was just going off what was labeled and trying to place it where the window was in the picture above. Perhaps someone else has the answer. Happy modeling all. EDIT: spelling. Edited February 26, 2020 by Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Don, It totally makes sense! Why have camera installations in two different aircraft locations? Also, the strike camera was probably the vertical one and the post strike one was the oblique camera. ( Just guessing ). Post drop, the plane would’ve probably banked at, at least 45 degrees to determine drop effectiveness. At that angle, the vertical camera would’ve been next to useless. So, sounds entire plausible to me. Really like the cutaway too! Thanks! Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
echolmberg Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 Thanks to everyone for chiming in! Those pictures are fantastic, Whitey. Those are new ones for me and will come in extremely handy as reference photos. I love the tonal varaitions of the metal! Brendan, I was kind of thinking the same thing. If that open area is a camera port, it made perfect sense to locate it there especially if the plane is in a hard bank. Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Hard to tell from the pics I’ve seen, what did she have for an under-fuselage radar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, 11bee said: Hard to tell from the pics I’ve seen, what did she have for an under-fuselage radar? AN/APQ-13 Radar with the dome between the bomb bays. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 19 hours ago, afoxbat said: Perhaps you might answer a query: in the upper picture above the number “2” on the Enola Gay ( aft fuselage ), is that a camera port or what? I’ve never been able to figure it out. Any info would be appreciated. Many Thanks! Brendan Brenden, the opening above the "2" is an Emergency Escape hatch. I'm sure those guys popped it open all the time once on deck, as hot as it must've been inside. here's a shot of BOCKS CAR with it shown open as well: Here's a photo of it from the inside: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nwameran Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Interesting.Thank you for sharing the information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Whitey, Looks like you solved my query! Pictures are great too! And the logic is perfect. Bet it got really hot back there especially with the APU running. Truly fascinating! And many thanks for posting this. I was always curious as to the function that hatch served. How did you acquire that interior shot of the hatch??? Really cool! Again, Thank you! Brendan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 12 hours ago, afoxbat said: Whitey, Looks like you solved my query! Pictures are great too! And the logic is perfect. Bet it got really hot back there especially with the APU running. Truly fascinating! And many thanks for posting this. I was always curious as to the function that hatch served. How did you acquire that interior shot of the hatch??? Really cool! Again, Thank you! Brendan I found the photo on line somewhere while digging up research on ENOLA GAY, that photo is from the interior of ENOLA GAY. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Fifer Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 On 2/25/2020 at 5:55 PM, Dave Williams said: Doubtful it’s an oblique camera, as it would be pointing toward the sky. A close inspection of the cutaway shows that the camera pictured is pointing down and out the lower starboard side. I think it’s a hatch of some kind. Either an emergency escape hatch, or a hatch to ventilate the compartment because that’s where the APU was located. I agree. What I'm seeing in the cutaway item 109 is a camera pointing through the lower right fuselage, not through the upper left fuselage. It's just a coincidence that the label "109" appears in approximately the same location as the mystery hatch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 For those who are looking for some very detailed pictures of the B-29's interior (plus some good stories and general info), I highly suggest this book: I got my from the bargain shelf at my local B&N. Well worth the $. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
echolmberg Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 3 hours ago, 11bee said: For those who are looking for some very detailed pictures of the B-29's interior (plus some good stories and general info), I highly suggest this book: I got my from the bargain shelf at my local B&N. Well worth the $. I need to look for that! By any chance, does it happen to show color pictures of the bomb bay? From what I can gather, it seems like the fuselage interior was natural metal, but what about the bomb racks themselves? I've seen where they're also natural metal and other pics showing them as interior green. I suppose either could be right depending on what was done out in the field. That's how I painted the bomb bay last night on my model. I think I mainly did it that way in order to add some visual differences as opposed to EVERYTHING in the bomb bay being silver. Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, echolmberg said: I need to look for that! By any chance, does it happen to show color pictures of the bomb bay? From what I can gather, it seems like the fuselage interior was natural metal, but what about the bomb racks themselves? I've seen where they're also natural metal and other pics showing them as interior green. I suppose either could be right depending on what was done out in the field. That's how I painted the bomb bay last night on my model. I think I mainly did it that way in order to add some visual differences as opposed to EVERYTHING in the bomb bay being silver. Eric Eric, if you are hard up for this info, let me know and I’ll grab my copy and scan some pics tonight. It has highly detailed pics of what appear to be perfectly restored crew stations and also many excellent WW2 vintage shots. I think there are some bomb bay shots. Let me know if I can help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, echolmberg said: I need to look for that! By any chance, does it happen to show color pictures of the bomb bay? From what I can gather, it seems like the fuselage interior was natural metal, but what about the bomb racks themselves? I've seen where they're also natural metal and other pics showing them as interior green. I suppose either could be right depending on what was done out in the field. That's how I painted the bomb bay last night on my model. I think I mainly did it that way in order to add some visual differences as opposed to EVERYTHING in the bomb bay being silver. Eric Here's a whole bunch of ENOLA GAY bomb bay photos. Showing the unique bomb cradle, bench seat, and door fins: https://aafradio.org/NASM/Bomb_bays.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
echolmberg Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 11bee, thank you for the more than generous offer! With today being Friday, I think I'm going to stop off at my local B&N and see if they have that book there. Can never have too many reference books in their collection, right? Whitey, thank you again for the fantastic pics! I don't want to super-detail the B-29 by any means but I think I might throw in the odd control and hydraulic lines here and there just to "busy up" the space. The pictures give me a fairly good idea of where they should go. Not going to go overboard. I'm just talking about maybe half a dozen lines to give the area some depth. Thanks again! Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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