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Do you have enough toilet paper?

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On 3/15/2020 at 7:05 PM, Whiskey said:

My Congressman's office is about to get an earful tomorrow morning. I'm a full-time student along with being a single full-time parent. I use the GI Bill to help fund my living expenses.

 

Apparently because of this damn COVIN-19 my school has decided to move to online classes only for last seven weeks of the semester. The Department of Veterans Affairs just released a statement that if you attend a school that moves solely to online coursework then you will not receive ANY of your monthly benefits. I'm so freaking pissed and panicking now because I will be out of $2k a month.

 

I didn't chose to take online courses, I chose classroom instructional classes for several reasons with one being you get paid more. And now the VA is literally taking this opportunity and sticking it to every Vet.

Whiskey,

Did you see this?

 

https://militarybenefits.info/gi-bill-coronavirus/

 

 

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20 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Whiskey,

Did you see this?

 

https://militarybenefits.info/gi-bill-coronavirus/

 

 

 

👍👍👍 

 

I did thanks. Before calling my Congressman's office I did a little digging to find that there were several veteran's organizations already pushing this issue towards Congress. I basically added my name to the biggest list. It still took them a while to get it through but it can be considered a win.

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1 minute ago, Whiskey said:

 

👍👍👍 

 

I did thanks. Before calling my Congressman's office I did a little digging to find that there were several veteran's organizations already pushing this issue towards Congress. I basically added my name to the biggest list. It still took them a while to get it through but it can be considered a win.

 

This is good news...I hope it works out for you.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SBARC said:

 

You could be very right maybe the season flu is worse. 

 

But current numbers on this virus are cause for sober reflection.

 

If 70% of the USA gets this virus and only 2% die

327,000,000 X 0.70 X 0.02 = 4,578,000....that is 4.5 million Americans.  2% death rate

 

According to this website    https://covid19info.live/   the worldwide death rate is 4.4%

327,000,000 X 0.70 X 0.044 = 10,071,600....that is 10 million Americans.  4.4% death rate.  This number is optimistic considering China was not testing people for the virus that died at home etc.

 

Italy's death rate is currently at 9.3%

327,000,000 X 0.70 X 0.093 = 21,287,700....that is 21 million Americans.  9.3% death rate


Germany's death rate is 0.4%...but the Germans are testing anyone that wants a test and they have a very good medical system that is free for all citizens.

 

South Korea's death rate is 1.2%, but again they have been very proactive with tracing contacts and drive through testing and even tracking confirmed cases so all citizens can see them on a map and avoid them.

 

We won't know for 2 years how bad this gets.

 

For me....I have no clue what will happen, but the numbers so far do not leave me overly optimistic.

 

Well it seems the country’s that have the closest ties to China are getting it the worst.  Like I said in my post , it’s mother nature’s way of thinning the herd. This is not the first pandemic the world has dealt with and it won’t be the last. I’m sure in 4 years we will have something else to panic over. 

Edited by 305swag

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3 hours ago, Whiskey said:

 

👍👍👍 

 

I did thanks. Before calling my Congressman's office I did a little digging to find that there were several veteran's organizations already pushing this issue towards Congress. I basically added my name to the biggest list. It still took them a while to get it through but it can be considered a win.

 

Good news Whiskey. Hope they get it going smoothly.

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5 hours ago, 305swag said:

Well it seems the country’s that have the closest ties to China are getting it the worst.  Like I said in my post , it’s mother nature’s way of thinning the herd. This is not the first pandemic the world has dealt with and it won’t be the last. I’m sure in 4 years we will have something else to panic over. 

 My fear is the next one will be much worse.  Always the optimist...that's me.  :rofl:

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5 hours ago, 305swag said:

Well it seems the country’s that have the closest ties to China are getting it the worst.  Like I said in my post , it’s mother nature’s way of thinning the herd. This is not the first pandemic the world has dealt with and it won’t be the last. I’m sure in 4 years we will have something else to panic over. 

 

I suspect countries will distance themselves from China in the future.  It looks like India will be the next supplier of factory workers.

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dont know where you get the info that the Germans do the right thing, they still are discussing what and if to close down all non lethal buisnesses.

because of their federal system the government just cant issue order to all states...

 

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8 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

It looks like India will be the next supplier of factory workers.

They already do, like so many other countries from the region (Malaysia, Vietnam, etc.) for products such as, Levi's denims, surgery masks and single-use gloves.

 

Cheap labor, unfortunately.

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9 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

I suspect countries will distance themselves from China in the future.  It looks like India will be the next supplier of factory workers.

Never going to happen.  China is poised to pass the US as the largest economy on the planet.  The global economy can’t be put back in the box, we are well past that point.  

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9 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

I suspect countries will distance themselves from China in the future.  It looks like India will be the next supplier of factory workers.

 

I suspect the opposite is possible because China (and Asia in general) is bouncing back to normal faster. This economic rebound together with stagnation in other countries will attract more business connections with China. Interesting times. 

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

Never going to happen.  China is poised to pass the US as the largest economy on the planet.  The global economy can’t be put back in the box, we are well past that point.  

 

It's actually already happening.  Countries like Japan are looking towards Vietnam, Indonesia, India to transfer their manufacturing to them. Or are already making plans to bring the industries back to their own countries.   It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world realizes that even if things cost more, they'd rather buy them if they were made in their own country. 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JackMan said:

 

It's actually already happening.  Countries like Japan are looking towards Vietnam, Indonesia, India to transfer their manufacturing to them. Or are already making plans to bring the industries back to their own countries.   It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world realizes that even if things cost more, they'd rather buy them if they were made in their own country. 

 

 

 

Not to mention automation making it MUCH easier to bring tasks that typically would be handled by a large group of people at a low labor cost. Bringing some of that back to local factories is going to be pretty normal. it's happening faster than some realize. True some things will always need human interaction. But many jobs that are currently part of the Chinese industrial economy are going to go away. 

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5 minutes ago, JackMan said:

 

It's actually already happening.  Countries like Japan are looking towards Vietnam, Indonesia, India to transfer their manufacturing to them. Or are already making plans to bring the industries back to their own countries.   It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world realizes that even if things cost more, they'd rather buy them if they were made in their own country. 

 

 

 

So when the next pandemic originates in Vietnam or India or Bangladesh, what should we do?  Or is China the only problem because...... they are Chinese?

 

Heck, given the projections about how the epicenter of this virus will soon be here in the US, maybe other countries will follow your sage advice and pull their operations out of here?

 

Lastly,  If you really believe that after all this, the US will simply pull all manufacturing back home, I’ve got some overpriced cruise line stock I’d like to sell you.   Companies are inherently greedy.   If they can save money by outsourcing their raw supplies and manufacturing overseas, they are going to do so.  

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, 11bee said:

So when the next pandemic originates in Vietnam or India or Bangladesh, what should we do?  Or is China the only problem because...... they are Chinese?

 

I doubt if there are as many Vietnamese, Indians or Bangladeshis traveling all over the world in as huge numbers as china-nese and so are less likely to spread the disease to other parts of the world....as what china has done.  I also don't think they will lie and hide it as much as the CCP did for several weeks.  A heroic young chinese doctor was arrested by the CCP for telling the truth.  He is now dead because of the virus.

 

Quote

Heck, given the projections about how the epicenter of this virus will soon be here in the US, maybe other countries will follow your sage advice and pull their operations out of here?

 

I doubt that. Because many countries would rather trust the US than the CCP, especially when it comes to laws that protect Intellectual Property.

 

Quote

 

Lastly,  If you really believe that after all this, the US will simply pull all manufacturing back home, I’ve got some overpriced cruise line stock I’d like to sell you.   Companies are inherently greedy.   If they can save money by outsourcing their raw supplies and manufacturing overseas, they are going to do so.  

 

No, not all. Just the ones who are still patriotic. Or the ones who have realized that, cheaper costs or not, china just isn't worth it.  And yes, they might still outsource overseas....just not to china.  They ( especially the pharmaceutical companies) have started to realize the danger of outsourcing everything to china.  It's only a matter of time before they pull out.

Edited by JackMan

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7 minutes ago, JackMan said:

I doubt if there are as many Vietnamese, Indians or Bangladeshis traveling all over the world in as huge numbers as china-nese and so are less likely to spread the disease to other parts of the world....as what china has done.  I also don't think they will lie and hide it as much as the CCP did for several weeks.  A heroic young chinese doctor was arrested by the CCP for telling the truth.  He is now dead because of the virus.

 

No, not all. Just the ones who are still patriotic. Or the ones who have realized that, cheaper costs or not, china just isn't worth it.  And yes, they might still outsource overseas....just not to china.  They ( especially the pharmaceutical companies) have started to realize the danger of outsourcing everything to china.  It's only a matter of time before they pull out.

 

The reason so many Chinese travel the world is that due to their economy, they now have the means.  The same applies to other countries with growing economies.   Yes, companies are pulling back certain manufacturing from China but only because, as China's economy grows, their labor force is getting paid more and thus, for very basic manufacturing needs, it's now cheaper to use less developed countries like the ones you listed.    There is a reason that the US is out of the commercial shipbuilding, TV, textiles, consumer electronics assembly sectors (amongst many others), and that is because the only thing corporations value are profits.  They certainly don't value patriotism, if they did, not a single factory in the US would have ever been shut down and relocated out of country.  Would you not agree?  The only way to ensure that manufacturing is done domestically is by mandating the companies to do so and good luck ever seeing that happen. 

 

As far as that heroic young doctor arrested by the CCP, I feel for him.  However, I feel more for our heroic young first responders and medical personnel who will be getting sick (and in some numbers dying - or being part of the herd being culled as another poster referred to it as) due to lack of proper protective gear.   Anyone else embarrassed that the United States, with the largest military in the history of mankind, can't provide enough $5 N95 masks to the folks on the frontline of this crisis?    We've got old ladies at home sewing masks out of scraps of cloth (which is nice gesture but completely useless) like some backwards third world country. 

 

But hey, if we ask nicely, maybe China will help us out?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-africa/coronavirus-medical-supplies-donated-by-alibabas-ma-arrive-in-ethiopia-idUSKBN2190JU

 

 

 

 

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Just got back from Walmart, overheard a few people talking in an aisle, seemed maybe to be trucker and someone in a traveling utility crew.

They were NOT happy campers;

One of them had just come from someplace where not only were the restaurants just flat closed, not even doing takeout, but the grocery stores had been bare for a week,

 

General tenor of the conversation was, "And just how do all you Einsteins propose we EAT???"

 

Yeah, there was just a touch of resentment in their tone.

 

Don't know if the trucker had been hauling toilet paper, but WM did have that and milk again.

Fergit buying cereal, eggs, canned fruit, soup, not gonna happen.

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3 hours ago, JackMan said:

 

It's actually already happening.  Countries like Japan are looking towards Vietnam, Indonesia, India to transfer their manufacturing to them. Or are already making plans to bring the industries back to their own countries.   It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world realizes that even if things cost more, they'd rather buy them if they were made in their own country. 

 

 

 

 

Even China admits to this and they are pivoting their economy to be more for internal consumerism.  Which is what the western countries were before.....remember Made in USA....Made in England etc.  China knows that their increasing standard of living is making them less attractive than India and Vietnam etc.  This is not something new, but I suspect the general anger over this virus against China will cause countries to look elsewhere if the price is the same. 

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3 hours ago, 11bee said:

So when the next pandemic originates in Vietnam or India or Bangladesh, what should we do?  Or is China the only problem because...... they are Chinese?

 

 

 

I do not for a second buy into the line that this is directed against Chinese....Mainland China or more specifically the CCP?  Definately.

 

 

Heck, given the projections about how the epicenter of this virus will soon be here in the US, maybe other countries will follow your sage advice and pull their operations out of here?

 

Lastly,  If you really believe that after all this, the US will simply pull all manufacturing back home, I’ve got some overpriced cruise line stock I’d like to sell you.   Companies are inherently greedy.   If they can save money by outsourcing their raw supplies and manufacturing overseas, they are going to do so.  

 

This pandemic has royally screwed over many individuals personal finances and it will take years to recover and some will lose everything (restaurant owners etc).  No one will pull out of the US because the virus comes to the USA.....no one is abandoning Italy because of their current nightmare.

 

I do not feel companies will pull manufacturing back to the USA....but other developing countries will be chosen over China due to this virus and the increasing wages and standard living in China.  This shift to other developing countries has already been happening.  I think the average person that lost money due to this Virus or got sick or lost a loved one will view the words "Made in China" very differently.

 

And please do not think I am anti-Chinese.....I have 2 daughters that are half Chinese...but their Mom was a Canadian Chinese.

I am anti-CCP.

 

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1 hour ago, southwestforests said:

Just got back from Walmart, overheard a few people talking in an aisle, seemed maybe to be trucker and someone in a traveling utility crew.

They were NOT happy campers;

One of them had just come from someplace where not only were the restaurants just flat closed, not even doing takeout, but the grocery stores had been bare for a week,

 

General tenor of the conversation was, "And just how do all you Einsteins propose we EAT???"

 

Yeah, there was just a touch of resentment in their tone.

 

Don't know if the trucker had been hauling toilet paper, but WM did have that and milk again.

Fergit buying cereal, eggs, canned fruit, soup, not gonna happen.

 

I saw a video on youtube by a trucker complaining about this very thing.  Lack of food and bathrooms on the highway as businesses close down due to the virus.  Like everyone else, truckers will need to adjust to the new reality.  I do think people hoarding TP and all other items must piss off the truckers as they try their best to keep us fed and safe.  Too many people in the general public have no respect for truckers.

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When I worked at a now moved auto auction in the 1990s, we got a lot of cars via a transport company named Jack Cooper who as a matter of policy did not use sleeper cabs and had their drivers sleep at night in hotels. Since their trucks have no food storage or preparation equipment the above condition would be a huge issue for them.
Although there might be enough of a slowdown in the auto auction business now that the scale of the food issue for them is somewhat reduced and having work at all is the new issue.

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16 minutes ago, SBARC said:

 

I do not for a second buy into the line that this is directed against Chinese....Mainland China or more specifically the CCP?  Definately.

 

 

 

This pandemic has royally screwed over many individuals personal finances and it will take years to recover and some will lose everything (restaurant owners etc).  No one will pull out of the US because the virus comes to the USA.....no one is abandoning Italy because of their current nightmare.

 

I do not feel companies will pull manufacturing back to the USA....but other developing countries will be chosen over China due to this virus and the increasing wages and standard living in China.  This shift to other developing countries has already been happening.  I think the average person that lost money due to this Virus or got sick or lost a loved one will view the words "Made in China" very differently.

 

And please do not think I am anti-Chinese.....I have 2 daughters that are half Chinese...but their Mom was a Canadian Chinese.

I am anti-CCP.

 

Exactly!

 

Only thing I kind of think some manufacturing WILL return to the US. As I said, automation is one area that is going to help foster that. True, a company isn't going to close a factory in China or some other lower wage area with say 1000 workers, for example, to open one in the states with 1000 workers making more money. That would not make sense on the economic level. BUT a company would open a new automated manufacturing plant that say has 1/10 the amount of workers operating machinery. That is one of the things that will boost the economy not only because of the jobs at the plant but in the fields of automated industrial lines. I've seen evidence of this already and I think it's going to continue along that path for many industries. Perhaps not a majority but a LOT more than people realize.

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30 minutes ago, niart17 said:

Exactly!

 

Only thing I kind of think some manufacturing WILL return to the US. As I said, automation is one area that is going to help foster that. True, a company isn't going to close a factory in China or some other lower wage area with say 1000 workers, for example, to open one in the states with 1000 workers making more money. That would not make sense on the economic level. BUT a company would open a new automated manufacturing plant that say has 1/10 the amount of workers operating machinery. That is one of the things that will boost the economy not only because of the jobs at the plant but in the fields of automated industrial lines. I've seen evidence of this already and I think it's going to continue along that path for many industries. Perhaps not a majority but a LOT more than people realize.

 

Very good point, I never thought of that angle regarding automation.  Your points about automation are quite valid.  Automation has cut back on many assembly line jobs and kept the first world countries competitive.

 

I recall watching a CnC video of a cylinder head being cut from a block of metal for a high end car....it was quite the sight to see and much quicker than a skilled machinist trying to do the same task.

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15 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

I suspect countries will distance themselves from China in the future.  It looks like India will be the next supplier of factory workers.

I don’t mind some useless items being made in China on the cheap but not meds and medical supplies or any other item that would hurt the country if we didn’t have it available.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, niart17 said:

Only thing I kind of think some manufacturing WILL return to the US. 

 

The ONLY reason manufacturing left the US - and the only reason manufacturing will ever return to the US - is if there is an economic incentive to do so.  By economic incentive I mean labor costs, tax breaks, or tariffs - or any combination of those.  Our capitalistic society is beholden only to the stockholder - or more specifically share price. There are no patriotic, ethnic or geographic drivers, only economic.

 

My company recently moved manufacturing to Mexico and put hundreds of workers in the unemployment line in New York.  Screw the labor force and praise the bottom line. 

 

.

Edited by habu2

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