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ya-gabor

QF-4 Phantom question

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On 24 th of December 2016 at Holloman AFB in New Mexico a Phantom Pharewell was held with a flight of 4. There is a video of it on you tube.  

 

I love the scheme of this QF-4 Phantom with that grey camo and all the small extras on it. It is AF 74 043 with target ID AF 338. This is where I would like to ask for help. While most of the things are visible on the video there are few things which are difficult to make out. Reading some descriptions of the target conversion it is apparent that there is a “bulge” in the left forward Sparrow bay to house some actuators.

 

GAEvqrF.jpg

 

 

 

On the video it is visible that several dozen photographers were at the event but I could not find any good quality pictures from this occasion only the given video. Took some screen shoots from it but not everything is visible.

 

The paint scheme is more or less clear from both sides as well as all the small markings. Will cut some paint stencils for them. But before this I have to convert the Phantom into a target drone. Some antennas and bulges, nothing big but I lack details on these.

 

Does anyone have photos of the given “bulge”, preferably a close up. I am not after photos from this particular event, any of these target drone Phantoms.  

 

From front

 

yUCq0T8.jpg

 

 

Side view

 

2B6b1rz.jpg

 

 

Little is visible from underside

 

eSl3X2l.jpg

 

There is also a smaller “bulge” on the back before the fin painted in case of this particular bird black. Absolutely nothing is visible of its shape that I can use for making it for my kit. (On earlier Phantom drones the bulge on the back was considerably bigger.)

 

Any help is welcome.  

 

Thanks in advance for help.

 

Stay safe!!!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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While I can't help you with the additions to the airframe that signify drones, I can tell you that this particular paint scheme belong to Texas Air National Guard units. So if your only wanting to depict an F-4E with this camo, look no further than Caracal's Fighter of Austin decal sheet.

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Thanks for the tip! 

Well I am actually after this particular QF-4 with all the additional antennas and the red (don’t think it is a dayglow red!???) additional markings. I don’t think that decal sheet has the Drone AF-338 and the AMARC (or AMARG now) ID number stencils or what remained of them by the time it was converted into a QF-4.

 

Will look most certainly at that decal sheet to get the right greys for the camo. Actually it is visible on the above photo too that it changed considerably during desert storage and there are marks all over it from the protective cocoons at AMARC.

 

Thanks anyway!

  

Best regards

Gabor

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I did a little googling and found this site. There’s a QF-4E walk around.

Link


Didn’t somebody release a 1/48 and/or 1/32 QF-4E conversion set recently?

 

Ben

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Hi Ben Brown,

Thanks!

I did look around but was not so lucky as you! The fault is in me, I am sure. : )  : )  : )

Some good and useful photos. Thanks! The only shame is that they are extremely small and that the area of the “bump” I am looking for is completely missing on this walk around. Oh well. At least something is visible of other details. : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

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3 hours ago, Ben Brown said:

Didn’t somebody release a 1/48 and/or 1/32 QF-4E conversion set recently?

Ben

 

Did a little additional search. I go back to unresolved questions every now and then and try to look at it with a fresh eye . . .

 

-  Sierra Hotel Models in 2009 or 2014 in 32nd scale did prepare some masters including that bulge in the Sparrow bay. The parts looked nice of what one could see about them behind the PhotoBuck overlay.  Have no idea if they are still in business or if this set was ever up for sale.

 

-  Hasegawa did a special QF-4 Phantom II in 48th boxing but it is no longer available. From what I can see it only had the QF-4 decals but no plastic parts to go with it.

 

-  Some people tried to go into this conversion on different forums and different scales but from what I can see after few posts the threads died away. Think they gave up.

 

-  One decal company also wanted to do a dedicated QF-4 sheet but as far as I can see steped back due to lack of kit and conversion on the market. But I could be mistaken. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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The “bulge” houses throttle servos on the QF-4. QRF-4 without AIM-7 wells have the throttle servos housed internally i.e. no bulge on QRFs. 
 

Jake and I shot QF-4s extensively at Tyndall a few years back, QF-4 mods and color photos are covered in Jake’s Modern Phantom Guide.  

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Thanks Habu2

 

The one I am doing is a QF-4 and is beautifully visible that the “bulge” is there.

I have no access to the mentioned publication. : (   : (

 

Continue searching for some images on internet. : )  

 

Will have to do some masters of the different extra QF-4 parts. But for the moment it is still only in research phase, while on the workbench is a 72nd MiG-21PF with some extra details added to it which were specific for the PF and not covered in the kit.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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All my books, including the Modern Phantom Guide, are in storage right now as I'm in between homes and stuck with this COVIN-19 going around. However that should be changing next week. If I can get to it once I start moving things around I'll send you the stuff on QF-4's.

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Where is the 'Expanding Rod' self destruct device located on QF-4?  As I recall that is just about the point that the air craft is broken-up when unmanned  positive control is lost or the unmanned airframe is damaged during a test.

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Thanks Whiskey!

 

Absolutely no problem and not urgent in any way. Still doing some basic research on this subject and today dug out a Hasegawa F-4E kit that I had for decades. 

 

Doing some research today found some excellent photos of QF-4's including a picture from the time when 74-1043 was still with Texas Air National Guard in this Phantastic grey camo scheme. This scheme was something different. 

On the other hand found that there are more and more bits and pieces needed for this conversion.

 

For the moment I am doing some work on the Mig and most probably will work on it for some time. From tomorrow we here in Hungary will be advised to stay at home. Only to shop and chemists will be allowed to go. So plenty of time to build some kits! 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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7 hours ago, Michael A. said:

Where is the 'Expanding Rod' self destruct device located on QF-4?  As I recall that is just about the point that the air craft is broken-up when unmanned  positive control is lost or the unmanned airframe is damaged during a test.


My understanding is that there is an AIM-9 warhead mounted somewhere, presumably mid-ship, internally. I don’t know the specific location but I have photos of the arming panel. 

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I've been doing a little more digging. I swear I've seen a good walk around of a QF-4E somewhere, but so far, I've found very little. Most of the walk arounds of the QFs show all of the usual F-4 details but very little on what made them different.

 

There's a fairly decent shot of the throttle servo bulge here: LINK

A few more pics: LINK

And a few more: LINK

 

Ben

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Had a look around what I have at home.

First of all the kit. I think I got in 1983 along with the Verlinden detail set few years later. Have this F-4F and also had the F-4B/N kit but someone nicked it from the garage. The Verlinden set is not much and well and truly shows its age but some parts will be useful.

Also have the Academy Phantom in Eduard box so some bits and pieces will come from it as well.

 

eJOMhls.jpg

 

A look in the home library resulted in some books mainly from decades ago. They are not bad with some useful details also included but not really what I am looking for when building a kit.

 

9vjYarg.jpg

 

 

4V3T9Nl.jpg

 

 

The Verlinden Lock On is more to taste as it has a lot of help for modellers.

 

2B4GEZ3.jpg 

 

 

Saved the best for last. The Under the Skin series is excellent from the Greek Eagle Aviation company. Anyone doing a super detailing will need it for certain.

 

 

5zKarpy.jpg

 

OK but neither of these are about the QF-4E. Yes, but most of the drone airframe is a straight forward F-4 with the gun so they will be needed for sure.

 

In the meantime search continues for other info. And a start is made in putting in order what I already have to help in later work.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ben Brown said:

I've been doing a little more digging. I swear I've seen a good walk around of a QF-4E somewhere, but so far, I've found very little. Most of the walk arounds of the QFs show all of the usual F-4 details but very little on what made them different.

 

There's a fairly decent shot of the throttle servo bulge here: LINK

A few more pics: LINK

And a few more: LINK

 

Ben

 

 

Thanks Ben!

Great help!

 

Unfortunately in the third mentioned place the PrimePortal links dont work, or to be more precise the first 4 walkarounds of F-4E's only show the small photos but it is not possible to open them. Will try later. 

That F-4S restoration project is something special!!!!!  Nice details! 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Edited by ya-gabor

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Posted (edited)

If you really want to go crazy on that F-4E kit, DMold and XMM have some very nice intakes that are almost drop-in parts, once you open up the fuselage. The Verlinden set has some nice seats, but if you don’t open everything up, a lot of the parts go unused. Also check out Hypersonic for beautiful canopy details. I consider them must-have for any 1/48 F-4. They’re much better than any other aftermarket canopy details. His seats and stabilator are also beautiful, and he also has parts to fix the Academy F-4's ACS intakes and stabilators.

 

Not sure why those Prime Portal links didn’t work.

 

Cheers! 
 

Ben

Edited by Ben Brown

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Just found a video of building a QF-4 from the exactly same Hasegawa kit by Will Pattison about 2 years. He has fallen in love with the other grey aircraft at this last flight ceremony. So I am not the only one . . . : )   : )   : )

For me the camo version is far more interesting!

 

He did some of the conversion but did not really go too deep into it and lost on some antennas and details. He left the “bulge” completely out, simple could not find good photos of it. Based on the video he was more intrigued by the paint weathering and how to reproduce that. I am more into details, into doing them as on the original. We will see how far I can get.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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43 minutes ago, fasteagle12 said:

I just listed this Two Bob's sheet for sale this morning. 

http://www.twobobs.net/contents/en-us/p140.html

Thanks Fasteagle12!

 

The decal looks nice but it is an QF-4G ex-Wild Weasel aircraft. It had many differences in antennas in comparison to those late QF-4E’s.

I think the only valuable information on those instruction sheets is the code for the paints used. Not really worth buying the decal for that. : ( 

 

 

 

Hi Ben,

I will try again the links for those QF-4 "walk arounds". Have to say that it is strange to name 4-5 photos as a walk around. :)  As I can see the photographer was more interested in individual a/c markings than airframe details. 

 

The plan is to have pilot cockpit open and RIO closed. As one can see in many cases on QF-4’s the after seat was not even installed or even if there for example the horseshoe shaped parachute container was not fitted.

 

The intakes could be eliminated with a ground cover. : ) : )  I was never into this seamless intake business. 

 

I found good photos of the forward cockpit with all the different instruments on that big box replacing the HUD. But nothing so far for the after cockpit, this could be another reason to have it closed.  : )  : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Since Jake's book is now made of unobtainium you might ask if he will post some pics here.

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Hi Habu2,

 

Thanks. Sorry (I don’t want to sound impolite) but I have no idea who this Jake is and how to reach him. 

 

I just have to go with what I have and continue the search. This is a long term project so I am not in a hurry. But thanks anyway!

 

 

Stay safe everyone!!!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

Sorry (I don’t want to sound impolite) but I have no idea who this Jake is and how to reach him. 

 

 Sorry I should have been more specific.  Jake Melampy of Reid Air Publishing. He has a sub-forum on ARC.

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/forum/242-reid-air-publications/

 

His website:   https://www.reidairpublishing.com/

 

.

Edited by habu2

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Hi Habu2

 

Thanks!  I will give it a try. One never knows what can come up. 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Hi Habu2,

 

I have written to Jack yesterday. Lets see if I hear from him.

 

In the meantime a bit of Phantom. I know it is not a QF-4E but it is an operational Phantom still in service in 2018 and pictured at the Slihac air show.

 

This is a real piece of metal!!!  Not like those plastic toys of today which some call fighter aircraft.  : )  : )   : )

 

0XPrduA.jpg

 

 

 

Stay safe!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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