Modelkeenfan Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Has anyone seen a picture of an Italian Tornado in Op desert storm carrying Mk 20 rockeyes? I read a website which listed all the different loadouts carried by the different aircraft in desert storm and it stated that Italian Tornados also carried a loadout of 5 Mk 20 rockeyes in the same configuration as they carried Mk 83 slicks. Can anyone tell me if that is correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Ask and you shall recieve 🙂 Here is a link to Italian article, put it in Google translate - http://www.modellismosalento.it/it/walkaround/documenti-storici-ed-iconografici/732-tornado-locusta-il-rientro-a-gioia-del-colle-15-3-1991.html?fbclid=IwAR0V44A2tCWnEjl1I1BT6vF1Kj4EgoPWPo1JVBm1J4L2zDGw9HoJFH31JZw I have a pdf somewhere with more info, looking for it now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modelkeenfan Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Thanks for that. I see a pic of some Mk 20s on the trolleys but no pics of them actually carrying them. I'd really like to see a pic of one loaded with mk 20s if I can find one. What is your opinion? Do you think they did? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 OK, from my Italian friend: Regarding the initial question; the weapons used were 565 Mk83 bombs equipped in part with Matra kits (with brake parachute). It is assumed that in the last days of operations, mainly in CAS, some tens of Mk82 have also been used and in this sense some footage are seen with Tornadoes armed with these devices. However, the AM had in the arsenal also the BL755 and MK20 clusters that were not brought to the Gulf as well as the Kormoran (which were to serve for the original mission of coverage to the Italian naval group ) while the MW1 dispenser had not yet been integrated. It seems that at the time there were kits for LGB as well as a specimen of CLDP, being evaluated, and that an experimental use in war along the lines of the RAF with the TIALD was assumed However, there were no emergency procedures and therefore armament could not be used that had not been duly tested (it seems that today it is different). The fall armament was brought to the three ventral pylons, five bombs that from the photos that appeared in the newspapers in 1991 were mostly the 460 kg Mk.83 Low Drag. at the time it was rumored that the missions of the Tornado Locusta had sent the A.M.I. of this type of ordnance, the fact is that in April 1991 I unintentionally made another discovery by photographing Mk.20 Mod. 3 Rockeye dispersion bombs installed under the IDS MM pylons. 7038 ... armament that was not part of the A.M.I. and that it was not approved for use on Tornadoes, in all probability purchased from the USAF in the Gulf and used in action. So, I guess they used them, as UK Tonkas, for UK Tonkas few pics exists, but probably not for Italian Tonkas. I will keep looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Benner Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 2 hours ago, JakubJakepilot said: OK, from my Italian friend: Regarding the initial question; the weapons used were 565 Mk83 bombs equipped in part with Matra kits (with brake parachute). It is assumed that in the last days of operations, mainly in CAS, some tens of Mk82 have also been used and in this sense some footage are seen with Tornadoes armed with these devices. However, the AM had in the arsenal also the BL755 and MK20 clusters that were not brought to the Gulf as well as the Kormoran (which were to serve for the original mission of coverage to the Italian naval group ) while the MW1 dispenser had not yet been integrated. It seems that at the time there were kits for LGB as well as a specimen of CLDP, being evaluated, and that an experimental use in war along the lines of the RAF with the TIALD was assumed However, there were no emergency procedures and therefore armament could not be used that had not been duly tested (it seems that today it is different). The fall armament was brought to the three ventral pylons, five bombs that from the photos that appeared in the newspapers in 1991 were mostly the 460 kg Mk.83 Low Drag. at the time it was rumored that the missions of the Tornado Locusta had sent the A.M.I. of this type of ordnance, the fact is that in April 1991 I unintentionally made another discovery by photographing Mk.20 Mod. 3 Rockeye dispersion bombs installed under the IDS MM pylons. 7038 ... armament that was not part of the A.M.I. and that it was not approved for use on Tornadoes, in all probability purchased from the USAF in the Gulf and used in action. So, I guess they used them, as UK Tonkas, for UK Tonkas few pics exists, but probably not for Italian Tonkas. I will keep looking. Sounds more like they were not used. He says he photographed them on in April, which is after war ended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jabba29 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) I have seen pictures of Mk20s fitted to RAF Tornados, but they were not used in anger as the war had finished. I wonder if this wa the same with the Italian Tornados. Edited April 6, 2020 by Jabba29 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 So the pic of armed ZA475 was taken just after the ceasefire ???? Hmmmm, interestning info. Could be same with Italian Tonkas then ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 6:48 AM, JakubJakepilot said: Ask and you shall recieve 🙂 Here is a link to Italian article, put it in Google translate - http://www.modellismosalento.it/it/walkaround/documenti-storici-ed-iconografici/732-tornado-locusta-il-rientro-a-gioia-del-colle-15-3-1991.html?fbclid=IwAR0V44A2tCWnEjl1I1BT6vF1Kj4EgoPWPo1JVBm1J4L2zDGw9HoJFH31JZw I have a pdf somewhere with more info, looking for it now. The photo in this article labeled Bomba a caduta libera non frenata MK.83 "Low Drag" da 460 Kg. is actually a 500-lb Mk 82 fitted with a Mk 15 Snakeye high drag fin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Italian Tornados USED MK.20 TOWARS THE END of Locusta air campaign... from an inside source ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Typical load for the Italian Tornados were 5 Mk.83s slick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) yes, 5 MK.83s Slick, but ONLY in the FIRST mission 5 MK.83s RETARDED (using a parachute) (but I don't know if they're used by only some Tornados or ALL 8 Tornados)... in the last days also MK.20s're used Edited November 24, 2020 by tomcat1978 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 6:22 AM, tomcat1978 said: yes, 5 MK.83s Slick, but ONLY in the FIRST mission 5 MK.83s RETARDED (using a parachute) (but I don't know if they're used by only some Tornados or ALL 8 Tornados)... in the last days also MK.20s're used Hearsay or reputable source. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 reputable source (a Gulf war Tornado pilot my friend ☺️) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 So, FIRST mission 5 RETARDEDs, later missions 5 FREE FALLs, in the LAST DAYS also some ROCKEYEs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 12:48 PM, JakubJakepilot said: Ask and you shall recieve 🙂 Here is a link to Italian article, put it in Google translate - http://www.modellismosalento.it/it/walkaround/documenti-storici-ed-iconografici/732-tornado-locusta-il-rientro-a-gioia-del-colle-15-3-1991.html?fbclid=IwAR0V44A2tCWnEjl1I1BT6vF1Kj4EgoPWPo1JVBm1J4L2zDGw9HoJFH31JZw I have a pdf somewhere with more info, looking for it now. JakubJakepilot have you found your pdf?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) On 11/26/2020 at 8:32 AM, tomcat1978 said: So, FIRST mission 5 RETARDEDs, later missions 5 FREE FALLs, in the LAST DAYS also some ROCKEYEs Nope, there is no mention of retarded bombs being used by the italian Tornados in the Gulf. They were normally using Mk.83 slicks. 5 1000 pounders under the belly in a tandem-single-tandem configuration. Those two images of Rocks and Snakes show them during the open base day upon their return to Iraly from deployment. As a note, after the first night refuelling debacle, the detachment started flying buddy sorties so that almost half of the 226 sorties flown were carrying the Sargent Fletcher buddy pod and tgree tanks. The articoe to which you are referring was written by a modeler, not a pilot. Edited November 27, 2020 by hemspilot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomcat1978 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 18 hours ago, hemspilot said: Nope, there is no mention of retarded bombs being used by the italian Tornados in the Gulf. They were normally using Mk.83 slicks. 5 1000 pounders under the belly in a tandem-single-tandem configuration. Those two images of Rocks and Snakes show them during the open base day upon their return to Iraly from deployment. As a note, after the first night refuelling debacle, the detachment started flying buddy sorties so that almost half of the 226 sorties flown were carrying the Sargent Fletcher buddy pod and tgree tanks. The articoe to which you are referring was written by a modeler, not a pilot. "hemspilot" the infos that I referred arrive from an ITALIAN GULF WAR TORNADO PILOT..... I KNOW very well the official statistics (only MK.83FF used), I personally KNOW also the modeler wick took the pictures of www.modellismosalento.it, BUT, I repeat, I also personally know an ITALIAN GULF WAR TORNADO PILOT. I don't invent anything, believe me ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 45 minutes ago, tomcat1978 said: "hemspilot" the infos that I referred arrive from an ITALIAN GULF WAR TORNADO PILOT..... I KNOW very well the official statistics (only MK.83FF used), I personally KNOW also the modeler wick took the pictures of www.modellismosalento.it, BUT, I repeat, I also personally know an ITALIAN GULF WAR TORNADO PILOT. I don't invent anything, believe me 😉 "I also know a guy who said..." How official is that, just saying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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