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1 minute ago, Whiskey said:

Interesting graphic that goes along with your comment @11bee

 

ft_2020.04.08_factsonfox_02.png

 

Can't trust Pew, a known mouthpiece for the far right.  Kidding (a bit). 

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7 minutes ago, nspreitler said:

To go back to the topic of COVID, it sadly looks like today will be the worst day so far for the US with over 2500 dead with increases in several states.   The latest IHME model projects 60,000 dead by August but with 45000 so far and still at over 2000 a day I don't see how that's feasible.   We are only seeing an increase in the percentage of deaths with testing numbers.  It is up to 5.5%, and if that trend continues we will see at least 1000 dead a day for the next few weeks at least.  

 

The numbers will go down as people begin to fight back against the virus....then people will relax and the numbers will flare up.....there will be a second wave and a third wave.

 

The true death rate if the hospital system is not overloaded is about 1.36% and if we achieve herd immunity at 70% of the US population then you are looking at over 3 million dead....which is difficult to believe. 

 

China should be held responsible for this pandemic and there should be serious consequences for China.

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1 minute ago, Whiskey said:

Maybe so but I'd still say that the placement of everything isn't far off.

 

That depends on what the measure of liberal or conservative is.  My opinions haven't changed much, but 10 years ago I would have been considered a moderate-conservative while today with the same opinions I fall more on the moderate-liberal part of the scale.   

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48 minutes ago, nspreitler said:

 

There were wars in that time, Korea, Vietnam, even Grenada.  Those can be considered the proxy wars of the Cold War, but we never went to war with the Soviet Union thankfully.  That doesn't diminish the service of those who served in that time it's just reality though.   There are things now that aren't very different.  You can get a GWOT-E medal for sitting in Kuwait, but you aren't at war.  

 

Yup. And you can get an ARCOM or a Bronze Star medal for just sitting on the FOB or COP in any of the S shops. What's your point? We were at war. Period.

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Just now, Whiskey said:

 

Yup. And you can get an ARCOM or a Bronze Star medal for just sitting on the FOB or COP in any of the S shops. What's your point? We were at war. Period.

 

We will have to disagree on that.  My father was in Vietnam and later in Germany.  I'm sure he would say he was at war when he was in Vietnam in 1968, he wouldn't say he was at war in Germany in 1972.   My Iraq tour during the surge was war, the one in Kuwait is not.   Plus the Cold War is still going on to an extent.  Before I switched services in 06 I was in the USAF and spent 2004-05 at Thule, Greenland on a radar site keeping a lookout for Russian missiles.    In 2018 I jumped into a DZ in Latvia as part of Swift Response which is all about deterring Russia.  If COVID hadn't happened I'd likely be in Europe now for Defender 20, which was going to be the biggest movement of troops from the US to Europe since the Reforger exercises in the 80s.   We have aircraft interceptions of Russian bombers, and we have Russian fighters playing games with our aircraft too.   So not much has really changed we just don't call it the Cold War now.  

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There are differences in the levels of combat and conflicts that the United States participated in throughout history, not just during 20th Century and with the USSR. The fact of the matter is that it was indeed, a war. Even though you (during your time in Kuwait) or your father (during his time in Germany) were not in direct combat, both were still in support of operations during a time of war.

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1 hour ago, nspreitler said:

 

I should have said incidents, usually involving aircraft straying into the wrong airspace.  We had some shot down and we shot down a few.   From what I can tell the last Navy aircraft was in 1955 though.   

Some of those incidents happened in international airspace, only a few were shot down when they violated someone's airspace.

 

And there was aircraft that was shot down well into the late 60's.

 

Also, remember that EP-3 incident in 01, could have sworn that China is a communist country.

52 minutes ago, nspreitler said:

 

I know what he said, and he again tried to use his service as an appeal to authority.  As if being on a ship in the 80s makes him an expert on political systems.  

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suite is it?

 

Where did I say I was an expert on political systems and where was I using my service as an appeal to authority?

 

I was using my service to show I had experience when it comes to communism and it's military forces.

 

When were you in the service, sounds like you did your time post cold war.

16 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Good war story!  So you were throwing crap at a foreign warship?  Doesn't speak much for the level of discipline in the USN.  I think in any other service, that would be instant Article 15 material.  Even when you see Russian or Chinese warships coming close to one of our ships these days, you don't see their sailors heaving crap at US ships.  Guess they have a bit more self-discipline and professionalism. 

 

That sucks about the chaff.   Bad stuff, that chaff.  Did you get stuck sweeping it off the flight deck?  

 

Lastly, you might want to hold off on the REMF usage GW.  In some quarters, the entire USN, aside from SEAL's and pilots may be considered to fit that category.  Just saying....

Yes, a 19 y/o three months into a seven month cruise throwing something half the size of a shotgun shell at a ship that is sailing beside you picking up your trash , spying on you so it could report what you are doing to the hostile country you are currently 25 miles from is poor discipline and professionalism. When you do a six month cruise working 18 hours a day with only four days off during that cruise come talk to me about professionalism and self-discipline. And you didn't hear about the Russian's cutting in front of our carriers while they are doing flight ops, dumping stuff in front of the ship, spying on us and assisting the hijackers, training their guns on us, harassing our aircraft, all in international waters.

 

BTW, this was during the TWA Hijacking in 85 and Russia was supplying intel to Syria who was then sending it to the hijackers so they were innocent bystanders in this. Russia use to do some pretty mean stuff out there, throwing crap at them was the least of the things we were worried about.

 

What military service have you done?

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43 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

ft_2020.04.08_factsonfox_02.png

You know what I see in the graph above, there are 23 left leaning news sites and 7 right leaning news sites, and yet people here still complain about the "majority" of news is biased to the right.

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1 minute ago, GW8345 said:

You know what I see in the graph above, there are 23 left leaning news sites and 7 right leaning news sites, and yet people here still complain about the "majority" of news is biased to the right.

 

Well just like you said earlier, Fox has the highest ratings no? Doesn't that speak of the majority?

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59 minutes ago, 11bee said:

LOL... we know the USA is truly going down the drain when CNN is now considered to be "extreme".   Just goes to show how far to the right we've gone under the current junta. 

 

God help us.

 

Not extreme, just over the top. CNN definitely has an agenda, as the vast majority of news outlets do. Just for grins, I went to MSNBC. Out of 8 "must watch" articles, 5 were directly negative to Trump. Look, I don't like the guy, but enough of the politicking and passing it off as "news". CNN does it by putting those same kind of articles front and center and labeling them as "Opinion" or "Analysis". Just for the record, CNN was considered left-leaning long before Trump was elected. I recall it was known as the Clinton News Network back in  the 90's. I don't mind if a news outlet has a bias. Just don't pass off that bias as news. Walter Cronkite was very liberal, yet you could never tell when he was delivering the news. I believe he was voted "The Most Trusted Man" at one point. That's what the news should be. Just the facts. Unfortunately, we as a society value the shocking over the basics. If it bleeds, it leads.

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3 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

What baffles me is people that wear gloves and no mask.  They are terrified to touch anything with bare skin for fear they might get the virus on their skin.  This is a lung infection, so stopping it from getting into your lungs is the goal.  N95 mask does this.  This virus can not infect you through a cut in your skin, so gloves is a very secondary form of protection...

Gloves are only useful if you have a clue how to put them on, don them, or the methods and sequence of their use. Otherwise they are only essentially another layer of infected skin. 99.9% of users have no clue how to use them properly. They are better off with a mask and a bar of soap.

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16 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

Well just like you said earlier, Fox has the highest ratings no? Doesn't that speak of the majority?

They have the majority of the viewer, not the majority of the market, big difference.

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4 hours ago, GW8345 said:

- The number one cause of death in the US is heart disease, the Chinese Virus isn't even in the top ten right now.


No, as of three days ago there are 1,900 deaths a day due to Covid 19.

 

Heart Disease is 1,700 deaths a day.

 

John Hopkins released these numbers.

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2 minutes ago, Scooby said:


No, as of three days ago there are 1,900 deaths a day due to Covid 19.

 

Heart Disease is 1,700 deaths a day.

 

John Hopkins released these numbers.

But the Chinese Virus will not be around for years, heart disease will be.

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31 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

They have the majority of the viewer, not the majority of the market, big difference.

 

How so? That's like saying Apple is struggling because they are outnumbered against the rest of the market even though they are the leading competitor. 

 

25 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

But the Chinese Virus will not be around for years, heart disease will be.

 

So the "insert discriminatory description here" virus is acceptable based on this correct?

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1 hour ago, GW8345 said:

What military service have you done?

Just a dumb Army grunt from the late cold war to the mid 90’s.    I hope that’s sufficient to at least get entered into this Richard measuring contest.  I enlisted for probably all the wrong reasons, I was bored and wanted college money (and blowing stuff up seemed pretty cool). Much to my chagrin (at the time), I never got to see any combat.   What I did learn was that vets who never saw combat mostly look like idiots trying to tell their war stories, so I typically just keep quiet and just listen- to either real warriors or to posers.  Both are equally enjoyable.  

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47 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

But the Chinese Virus will not be around for years, heart disease will be.


It’s Covid 19, although as many have noted throughout this thread, your ignorance is astounding. You post things only you find is funny.

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Where to begin?...

First, let's enjoy a nice, soothing song...

 

 

 

On 4/20/2020 at 9:36 AM, Mstor said:

I think at some point in the past, someone had the right idea as there are or were supposedly stockpiles of medical equipment maintained by the federal government. Unfortunately, the current administration has been reluctant to release these and when they did, many of the masks were rotted through and unusable. Who knows how old some of the stockpiles are. If you want to prepare for situations like this you need to create and then maintain the stockpiles. Old stock needs to be replaced. Who knows how old the respirators they have stockpiled are? 

Once you have equipment and supplies stockpiled, you also need plans on how to distribute them to the areas where it needed. If they had such plans, they certainly didn't enact them. They could have tapped the US military, who are experts in logistics. As far as I know, that hasn't happened either.

Situation normal, all F%$@! up.

 

Lets start with masks:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-were-running-out-of-masks-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/609757/

Some takeaways:
-Early in the outbreak China slowed mask manufacturing and stopped shipping them to the US.
-Many countries (including the US https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/ ) sold or donated millions of masks to China in the early days of the outbreak.
-Not mentioned in that article is that International Chinese companies started secretly buying up world supplies of masks and shipping them back to China (sorry, no link). China later sold or donated masks back to other countries.
-The Strategic National Stockpile was nearly depleted (of masks), most of which were used and not replaced during the 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu outbreak ( https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/ )

-Further, the Strategic National Stockpile was never meant to furnish the entire country with masks. It was meant to help regional areas in time of crisis.


What has happened since then is that US manufacturers have dramatically ramped up production of masks (and other PPE) and things are much better than early on. Hopefully they will become more available to the public soon.

 

As for the rotten masks, I'm not sure where you read this, but did they tell you that it was just the elastic bands that had failed and that when the bands were replaced the masks were still usable? Not ideal, but not as bad as some of the articles made it seem.
I agree that the National Stockpile inventory should be maintained more carefully. The masks in question had an expiration date of 2010. There were also respirators from the stockpile that were broken (but fixed and used).

I think that the lessons learned here will be learned and we will be much better prepared the next time this happens (God forbid).

 

Regarding tapping the US military:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/04/14/latest-national-guard-cornavirus-update-troop-count-tops-30000-mark-for-the-first-time/
and
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2147647/dod-transports-vital-covid-19-medical-supplies-to-points-of-need/

Over 30,000 National Guard in all 50 states plus all US territories have been doing a big variety of things to help, including logistics and distribution.
Army, Navy, Air Force (and probably USMC and USCG) have deployed all kinds of personnel and equipment to help in the effort:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/us-military-additional-forces-coronavirus/index.html
Including recruiting retired personnel:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/9000-retired-army-medical-personnel-respond-armys-call/story?id=69833949

Not to mention the 2 Navy Hospital ships that were deployed.

A huge "Thank You!" to our military :cheers:

 

4 minutes ago, Scooby said:

It’s Covid 19, although as many have noted throughout this thread, your ignorance is astounding. You post things only you find is funny.

It was initially called the "Wuhan Virus" or "Wuhan Coronavirus" by most all media, medical and even the Chinese.
In keeping with tradition of naming these things relating to their origin, I personally feel this is the best choice (and not racist :doh:).

 

:cheers:

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19 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

Where to begin?...

First, let's enjoy a nice, soothing song...

 

 

 

 

Lets start with masks:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-were-running-out-of-masks-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/609757/

Some takeaways:
-Early in the outbreak China slowed mask manufacturing and stopped shipping them to the US.
-Many countries (including the US https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/ ) sold or donated millions of masks to China in the early days of the outbreak.
-Not mentioned in that article is that International Chinese companies started secretly buying up world supplies of masks and shipping them back to China (sorry, no link). China later sold or donated masks back to other countries.
-The Strategic National Stockpile was nearly depleted (of masks), most of which were used and not replaced during the 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu outbreak ( https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/ )

-Further, the Strategic National Stockpile was never meant to furnish the entire country with masks. It was meant to help regional areas in time of crisis.


What has happened since then is that US manufacturers have dramatically ramped up production of masks (and other PPE) and things are much better than early on. Hopefully they will become more available to the public soon.

 

As for the rotten masks, I'm not sure where you read this, but did they tell you that it was just the elastic bands that had failed and that when the bands were replaced the masks were still usable? Not ideal, but not as bad as some of the articles made it seem.
I agree that the National Stockpile inventory should be maintained more carefully. The masks in question had an expiration date of 2010. There were also respirators from the stockpile that were broken (but fixed and used).

I think that the lessons learned here will be learned and we will be much better prepared the next time this happens (God forbid).

 

Regarding tapping the US military:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/04/14/latest-national-guard-cornavirus-update-troop-count-tops-30000-mark-for-the-first-time/
and
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2147647/dod-transports-vital-covid-19-medical-supplies-to-points-of-need/

Over 30,000 National Guard in all 50 states plus all US territories have been doing a big variety of things to help, including logistics and distribution.
Army, Navy, Air Force (and probably USMC and USCG) have deployed all kinds of personnel and equipment to help in the effort:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/us-military-additional-forces-coronavirus/index.html
Including recruiting retired personnel:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/9000-retired-army-medical-personnel-respond-armys-call/story?id=69833949

Not to mention the 2 Navy Hospital ships that were deployed.

A huge "Thank You!" to our military :cheers:

 

It was initially called the "Wuhan Virus" or "Wuhan Coronavirus" by most all media, medical and even the Chinese.
In keeping with tradition of naming these things relating to their origin, I personally feel this is the best choice (and not racist :doh:).

 

:cheers:

 

Zacto, thanks for a great, informed (not saying others aren't), well written and researched post. This is what I wish the news/media was like. Get rid of the sensationalism and just give the facts.

Edited by Darren Roberts
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23 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

It was initially called the "Wuhan Virus" or "Wuhan Coronavirus" by most all media, medical and even the Chinese.

 

The proper, correct name is COVID-19, a variant of the Coronavirus.  COVID-19 is the proper name used by the scientists, doctors and virologists who deal with viruses every day.  You won't find a health care provider calling it Chinese, Wuhan or anything else..There are many many variations of coronavirus, including MERS and SARS, all responsible for varying degrees of respiratory infections including the flu and common cold. Media will call it whatever they want based on how likely it is to keep you clicking or tuned in through the next commercial break. 

 

CO = corona   VI=virus   D=disease   -19 is the year it surfaced (2019)   

 

This name was made official by the World Health Organization (WHO) on Feb 11, 2020.  Before the virus was fully identified it was called 2019 novel (new) coronavirus or 2019-nCoVD

 

How many of you have been to the CDC website or the WHO website to educate yourself about this virus and how to protect yourself?  I bet the COVID-19 infection rate is magnitudes larger than the percentage of ARCers who have been to either website.

 

How many of you watch mainstream media to find an FS595 color spec or what color a CATM-120 nosecone is or how accurate the latest AMK kit is?  This is your health, people.  This is our economy, people.  This is our future, our hope.  Turn off the $#@*^^# television and educate yourself like your hobby depended on it.

Edited by habu2
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2 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

 

 

China should be held responsible for this pandemic and there should be serious consequences for China.

A good start is telling China any debt owed to them is now cancelled. Then bring manufacturing back home ASAP, maybe we will

need it like the great works project after the depression. My anger is not at the Chinese people, but against the PURE EVIL GOVT AND A PERSON NAMED XI POO BEAR. Frankly he needs to

be brought to trial and punished to the extreme for covering this up. Also I will hold my tongue here on other issues with the Chinese govt and organizations that have covered up for the CCP about the mess they unleashed on the world.

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57 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

How so? That's like saying Apple is struggling because they are outnumbered against the rest of the market even though they are the leading competitor. 

 

 

So the "insert discriminatory description here" virus is acceptable based on this correct?

Where did I say Fox News was "struggling", I said that liberals has the majority of the news business and yet liberals complain about the right leaning news site. That's like Google complaining about all the other search engines.

 

It's only a "discriminatory" description if you view things through the prism of race/ethnicity, I view it as identifying something from where it came from and what it is - see below.

35 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Just a dumb Army grunt from the late cold war to the mid 90’s.    I hope that’s sufficient to at least get entered into this Richard measuring contest.  I enlisted for probably all the wrong reasons, I was bored and wanted college money (and blowing stuff up seemed pretty cool). Much to my chagrin (at the time), I never got to see any combat.   What I did learn was that vets who never saw combat mostly look like idiots trying to tell their war stories, so I typically just keep quiet and just listen- to either real warriors or to posers.  Both are equally enjoyable.  

And I'm sure you were the most squared away pristine Soldier in the whole USA. You were a straight 4.0 Soldier and never gave the Sgt any problem. In fact, the Sgt never had to correct you, you were the model Soldier for the whole company to emulate and everyone cried when you got out.

 

I have no regrets on how I served or what I did and if you think I was unprofessional and undisciplined than that's on you because I had a blast doing those things and would do them again (if I was younger) in a heart beat. At that time, the Russian's were our number one enemy and they were responsible for countless American lives, I couldn't give a rat's rear end if I "offended" them let alone scratch their little boat.

34 minutes ago, Scooby said:


It’s Covid 19, although as many have noted throughout this thread, your ignorance is astounding. You post things only you find is funny.

I think we went over this already but I'll revisit for you.

 

Let's see, it's a virus that came from China, China hid it's true nature from the world, China lied about it, China profited off of it, China is responsible for the damage and death's its done, and you're offended I call it the Chinese Virus.

 

I bet you don't get offended when someone says lets get Chinese food - Chinese food, or Mexican Food, what about Italian Food? What about when someone refers to the 1918 flu epidemic as the Spanish Flu, or talks about the German Measles? If identifying something by what it is and where it came from offends you I suggest you use this novel thing called the ignore functions because I am not going to change what I say just to placate your sensitive and fragile feelings.

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2 hours ago, SBARC said:

<...>

China should be held responsible for this pandemic and there should be serious consequences for China.

 

Yes, China tried to cover it up. For all the wrong reasons. They should have known better. Eventually, though, word did get out. To the people working in that field, it was obvious where the situation was very likely heading for. That the rest of the world dragged their feet for weeks (months, even) isn't China's fault.

That we should have been prepared (al least have a plan in some drawer, instead of starting from scratch) for an event like this but weren't, isn't China's fault.

The way we're handling things now isn't China's fault.

Take the situation in Germany. That we didn't stockpile enough medical supplies, even though our German CDC recommended it years before, isn't China's fault. That we still held football games, for example, with up to 270,00 people from all across Germany travelling to stadiums all across Germany and back, while we knew there was a highly infectious virus going round, isn't China's fault.That we - although we were apparently managing it comparatively well - are now relaxing the shutdown and take unnecessary risks, isn't at all China's fault.

 

Yes, China messed it up first. But the response of almost everybody else wasn't much better. There's plenty of blame to go around. I hope the right people will be held responsible (not that I'm holding my breath, obviously). I hope we will learn from this (not holding my breath either, but a little more positive on this one).

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20 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

The proper, correct name is COVID-19, a variant of the Coronavirus.  COVID-19 is the proper name used by the scientists, doctors and virologists who deal with viruses every day.  You won't find a health care provider calling it Chinese, Wuhan or anything else..There are many many variations of coronavirus, including MERS and SARS, all responsible for varying degrees of respiratory infections including the flu and common cold. Media will call it whatever they want based on how likely it is to keep you clicking or tuned in through the next commercial break. 

 

CO = corona   VI=virus   D=disease   -19 is the year it surfaced (2019)   

 

This name was made official by the World Health Organization (WHO) on Feb 11, 2020.  Before the virus was fully identified it was called 2019 novel (new) coronavirus or 2019-nCoVD

 

How many of you have been to the CDC website or the WHO website to educate yourself about this virus and how to protect yourself?  I bet the COVID-19 infection rate is magnitudes larger than the percentage of ARCers who have been to either website.

 

How many of you watch mainstream media to find an FS595 color spec or what color a CATM-120 nosecone is or how accurate the latest AMK kit is?  This is your health, people.  This is our economy, people.  This is our future, our hope.  Turn off the $#@*^^# television and educate yourself like your hobby depended on it.

I don't care what they call it, I'm going to call it what I think it should be called, that is called free speech.

 

And how many times have we told someone what the proper color of something is, what proper load out is, what the correct markings are, and yet, many still get them wrong.  Do we blast them, tell them to "educate" themselves, call them ignorant?

 

Hell, I can go down to the Critique forum and find all kinds of thing wrong on models and not one comment on how such and such is wrong.

 

Who are you to dictate what people say, what people write, do you understand the concept of FREE SPEECH or are you one of those who wants to control what people think, say and see, just like communist do?

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